Bible bashing (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter jaecole
- Start date
I respect atheists as I do with people of other religions; but this issue has been brought up - as a person of a religion myself; and (not referring to this thread specifically) I hope some of the posters, even though they do not believe in religion and is free to state their opinions, do not belittle it and describe it in an offensive way.
I often see elements of truth in (almost) all perspectives of human experience... whether that be from an aboriginal in the Autralian Outback, a devout Muslim, a Japanese Shitoist, or even a devout disbelieving atheist who trumps any discussion of faith with a manner of scientific/statistical logic.
None of us knows all the answers, but there's some commonality in the human experience -- and in how our time, place, and culture color each perspective. So it's the combination of those perspectives that interests me, not any one individual view.
It's like the Indian fable of the blind men and the elephant. I see it as many groups looking for truth in the trunk, the feet, the ears, etc., where I'm looking for the whole elephant.
None of us knows all the answers, but there's some commonality in the human experience -- and in how our time, place, and culture color each perspective. So it's the combination of those perspectives that interests me, not any one individual view.
It's like the Indian fable of the blind men and the elephant. I see it as many groups looking for truth in the trunk, the feet, the ears, etc., where I'm looking for the whole elephant.
Sense we're on the subject of religion. I have some questions to the christians in this forum.
Is it true that man is sinful because Adam and Eve sinned, and as a result their progeny inherited the sin, as if it was infused into their genes and, ever since, all children of Adam are born congenital sinners.? (ex. women will have pain giving birth, man will have to work to get food, etc.)
If this is true, than tell me. If I go to prison for, lets say murder, should my son or daughter pay for my crime? Should they also serve jail time, or be killed?
2. If Jesus Christ was the saviour of mankind; he opened the door to heaven, because before one could not enter paradise because everyone was a sinner, due to Adam and Eve. Than everyone that was lived before the birth of Christ, did/do they all go to hell?
plz don't these questions as an attack on christiniaty, I'm only asking an explaination, thank you.
Is it true that man is sinful because Adam and Eve sinned, and as a result their progeny inherited the sin, as if it was infused into their genes and, ever since, all children of Adam are born congenital sinners.? (ex. women will have pain giving birth, man will have to work to get food, etc.)
If this is true, than tell me. If I go to prison for, lets say murder, should my son or daughter pay for my crime? Should they also serve jail time, or be killed?
2. If Jesus Christ was the saviour of mankind; he opened the door to heaven, because before one could not enter paradise because everyone was a sinner, due to Adam and Eve. Than everyone that was lived before the birth of Christ, did/do they all go to hell?
plz don't these questions as an attack on christiniaty, I'm only asking an explaination, thank you.
Both questions has to do with baptism...
1- yes, (if you are christian) all men and women are in sin when they born, thast why, chistians baptism their kids, becouse once they do that, the kid is no longer on sin.
2- The people before Jesus, also use the baptism, but to enter haven they had to follow rules to enter heaven (10 comitments).
Even Jesus had to use baptism.
About first question, It doesn make much sence, but thats the way that christians see things...
1- yes, (if you are christian) all men and women are in sin when they born, thast why, chistians baptism their kids, becouse once they do that, the kid is no longer on sin.
2- The people before Jesus, also use the baptism, but to enter haven they had to follow rules to enter heaven (10 comitments).
Even Jesus had to use baptism.
About first question, It doesn make much sence, but thats the way that christians see things...
I can provide another take on this...
To many Christians, Adam and Eve are a sort of allegorical couple representing the origins of mankind. The idea that "they" sinned is pretty much on par with saying that all humans are inherently imperfect when held up to divine standards.
So given the above paragraph, the question you bring up about going to prison for murder really doesn't make much sense ... because it pre-supposes an overly literal interpretation of a human creation myth. (Though do note that there are those who believe things quite literally.)
The answers vary, but one of the more common interpretations of that is that every soul before Christ ended up in purgatory ... a sort of limbo. Think of it as a jet aircraft in a holding pattern above the airport until air traffic control gives clearance.
If more people would inquire and ask questions instead of assuming and making rash judgements, this world would be a better place.
To many Christians, Adam and Eve are a sort of allegorical couple representing the origins of mankind. The idea that "they" sinned is pretty much on par with saying that all humans are inherently imperfect when held up to divine standards.
So given the above paragraph, the question you bring up about going to prison for murder really doesn't make much sense ... because it pre-supposes an overly literal interpretation of a human creation myth. (Though do note that there are those who believe things quite literally.)
The answers vary, but one of the more common interpretations of that is that every soul before Christ ended up in purgatory ... a sort of limbo. Think of it as a jet aircraft in a holding pattern above the airport until air traffic control gives clearance.
If more people would inquire and ask questions instead of assuming and making rash judgements, this world would be a better place.
I have a few quotes below taken from the Koran. I'm not sure if I understand them; perhaps some could explain:
"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)
"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)
"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
You know reading those lines makes me think that maybe The Koran its writen using the figure of the GOD from the OLD testament...
I always have seen that the God from the old testament is a very angry God, a punishing God if you like to see it like that, who doesnt tolerate siners and punish the sinners...and if you read The Bible you will see that some of the profets in the Old Testement prays to God like those lines of The Koran.
But in the New Testament we see more, how can I say this, "friendly" figure of God, you don't see God trowing Balls of fire, our water, our punish the siner, you see a God more Flexible maybe?
But again, Im just thnking out loud
I always have seen that the God from the old testament is a very angry God, a punishing God if you like to see it like that, who doesnt tolerate siners and punish the sinners...and if you read The Bible you will see that some of the profets in the Old Testement prays to God like those lines of The Koran.
But in the New Testament we see more, how can I say this, "friendly" figure of God, you don't see God trowing Balls of fire, our water, our punish the siner, you see a God more Flexible maybe?
But again, Im just thnking out loud
++ [ originally posted by Espectro ] ++
You know reading those lines makes me think that maybe The Koran its writen to the GOD from the OLD testament...
I always have seen that the God from the old testament is a very angry God, who doesnt tolerate siners...and if you read The Bible you will see that some of the profets in the Old Testement prays to God like those lines of The Koran.
But in the New Testament we see more, how can I say this, "friendly" figure of God, you don't see God trowing Balls of fire, our water, our punish the siner, you see a more "easy" God
But again, Im just thnking out loud
You know reading those lines makes me think that maybe The Koran its writen to the GOD from the OLD testament...
I always have seen that the God from the old testament is a very angry God, who doesnt tolerate siners...and if you read The Bible you will see that some of the profets in the Old Testement prays to God like those lines of The Koran.
But in the New Testament we see more, how can I say this, "friendly" figure of God, you don't see God trowing Balls of fire, our water, our punish the siner, you see a more "easy" God
But again, Im just thnking out loud