Baltimore Riots/Freddie Gray (2 Viewers)

[Hust]

Btw, have you ever heard of the concepts of "deliberate practice" and the "10 thousand hour rule"? If you have, what do you think about them?

While I don't necessarily agree with your bolded statement, as hard work alone is definitely not enough, but it seems to me that you're implying that genes and innate ability are what differentiate standout performers like Usain Bolt, and that's what I disagree with.

Which is exactly why one must not limit himself to only one set path. One must also define what success is to them. Wealth? Title? Longevity in a career? Family? Upper middle class? Success is different for everyone.

My multi-millionaire friend worked at both the world bank and IMF earning more than any of us ever will but that wasn't success to him. Now he owns 2 companies making a godly amount of money working 6-7 days a week and to him that's success. Point is, one thing might not work out so depending on your personal definition of success you can branch into something completely different to find success.

American dream is certainly harder to achieve these days through various issues but it is certainly still alive and well. Laughable when non-US citizens tell us its a lie.

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If you're born with Down syndrome your chances of success in any field are pretty heavily compromised.

You might want to come up with a different point because this guy begs to differ.

 

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[Seven]

Which is exactly why one must not limit himself to only one set path. One must also define what success is to them. Wealth? Title? Longevity in a career? Family? Upper middle class? Success is different for everyone.

My multi-millionaire friend worked at both the world bank and IMF earning more than any of us ever will but that wasn't success to him. Now he owns 2 companies making a godly amount of money working 6-7 days a week and to him that's success. Point is, one thing might not work out so depending on your personal definition of success you can branch into something completely different to find success.

American dream is certainly harder to achieve these days through various issues but it is certainly still alive and well. Laughable when non-US citizens tell us its a lie.

No, it's laughable when US citizens promote it. Because in so far as it is true, it is true more so in Belgium than in the States.

 

[Hust]

No, it's laughable when US citizens promote it. Because in so far as it is true, it is true more so in Belgium than in the States.

You have what, 2 billionaires? We have how many? I think the number is 536 and most certainly growing.

But hey, I'm sure none of the immigrants leaving central/south america won't find success here that they obviously couldn't in their homelands.

 

[Fred]

I think that if you put 10 000 hours into something, you'll be very good at it. But not necessarily world class. If Bolt and I had the exact same training throughout our lives, he'd still beat me by a very long margin. He's simply better built than I am to be a sprinter.

American society has us believe that all you need is hard work. And the downside of that is that if you are poor, you have yourself to blame. I'm saying that's not always the case.

If you do it the right way, and with the proper feedback from an expert, and you are not born with any kind of dysfunction that inhibits your ability to be good at it, I think there is extensive evidence that would lead you to be world class. I think you underestimate the 10,000 hours, very few of us put that much into anything, and even when if we do, its usually doing the same thing again and again, i.e. not deliberate practice. But there is significant evidence that if you put 10,000 hours of deliberate practice into something, that you will be world class.

The vast majority of the top performers in all domains have had 10,000 hours of deliberate practice in their respective domains.

Oh and I don't disagree with your last statement, hard work alone will not get you too far. The circumstances, the environment, and how smart the hard work you put in are just as important as working hard.

 

[Ocelot]

American dream is certainly harder to achieve these days through various issues but it is certainly still alive and well. Laughable when non-US citizens tell us its a lie.

It's certainly possible to achieve as an individual, as it was in all historic period and times, the question is whether it can in any way deservedly be called a national ethos, a general realistic lifegoal for the bulk of the population.

And that is definitely not the case in today's US, or any other country for that matter.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Dawg, the American dream is true for any poor person from a third world country that would work as a janitor for minimum wage to support their family.

At least that's the most likely scenario.

 

[Hust]

It's certainly possible to achieve as an individual, as it was in all historic period and times, the question is whether it can in any way deservedly be called a national ethos, a general realistic lifegoal for the bulk of the population.

And that is definitely not the case in today's US, or any other country for that matter.

Our shrinking middle class would certainly support your argument. Like I said, its harder today for sure but its still alive. Some things need to change for that Dream to remain alive but I will argue day and night with anyone that says its a lie.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Dawg, the American dream is true for any poor person from a third world country that would work as a janitor for minimum wage to support their family.

At least that's the most likely scenario.

What makes me laugh is I do not see any central South Americans sneaking over the border to go back? They come here and work their asses off to achieve a good life. Yet communities like Baltimore who have been born and bred here cry fowl?

 

[Seven]

If you do it the right way, and with the proper feedback from an expert, and you are not born with any kind of dysfunction that inhibits your ability to be good at it, I think there is extensive evidence that would lead you to be world class. I think you underestimate the 10,000 hours, very few of us put that much into anything, and even when if we do, its usually doing the same thing again and again, i.e. not deliberate practice. But there is significant evidence that if you put 10,000 hours of deliberate practice into something, that you will be world class.

The vast majority of the top performers in all domains have had 10,000 hours of deliberate practice in their respective domains.

Oh and I don't disagree with your last statement, hard work alone will not get you too far. The circumstances, the environment, and how smart the hard work you put in are just as important as working hard.

A big part is the possiblity to put in 10 000 hours as well. Or to have the right training facilities. All things you have no control over. If you are born in Jamaica, you have good training facilities as a sprinter. If you're born in Haiti, not so much.

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What makes me laugh is I do not see any central South Americans sneaking over the border to go back? They come here and work their asses off to achieve a good life. Yet communities like Baltimore who have been born and bred here cry fowl?

You are really bad at English, you know.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

A big part is the possiblity to put in 10 000 hours as well. Or to have the right training facilities. All things you have no control over. If you are born in Jamaica, you have good training facilities as a sprinter. If you're born in Haiti, not so much.

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You are really bad at English, you know.

Well I'm typing on my phone and in between making stuff at work. So I'm not focusing. Also it was my second language but that's no excuse I should work harder and concentrate

 

[Hust]

Bo Jackson.

That guy was insane.

 

[Seven]

Well I'm typing on my phone and in between making stuff at work. So I'm not focusing. Also it was my second language but that's no excuse I should work harder and concentrate

I'm glad you correct yourself with your second sentence. But come on, you cannot hold people accountable for everything that happens to them. Sometimes you get cancer, because God decided to fuck you, not because you smoked.

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You have what, 2 billionaires? We have how many? I think the number is 536 and most certainly growing.

But hey, I'm sure none of the immigrants leaving central/south america won't find success here that they obviously couldn't in their homelands.

You have what? One half decent football player? We have how many? 20?

 

[IliveForJuve]

What makes me laugh is I do not see any central South Americans sneaking over the border to go back? They come here and work their asses off to achieve a good life. Yet communities like Baltimore who have been born and bred here cry fowl?

I can't believe how ungrateful those people can be. They were born and bred in a privileged country.
My uncles who (legally) immigrated to the US 40 years ago are grateful for the opportunity they were given in a new country and are now enjoying their retirement in Miami and Virginia. Did I mention they didn't have college degrees?

 

[Hust]

You have what? One half decent football player? We have how many? 20?

That's your rebuttal?

 

[Seven]

That's your rebuttal?

Of course. It's the exact same thing.

 

[Hust]

I can't believe how ungrateful those people can be. They were born and bred in a privileged country.
My uncles who (legally) immigrated to the US 40 years ago are grateful for the opportunity they were given in a new country and are now enjoying their retirement in Miami and Virginia. Did I mention they didn't have college degrees?

My Italian grandparents raised 10 kids 4 of which are millionaires and my mom owned her own business without a college degree. Now my brother owns his own business without a college degree and has patented two of his own products.

 

[Seven]

What it comes down to and what is infuriating is that American society claims that if you work hard, good things will happen when it is obvious that this is not always so. Then if people are bankrupt because they fell ill, you blame them, because if they had worked hard, they'd be rich. So surely they are lazy.

 

[Hust]

Of course. It's the exact same thing.

Of course it is. Because all the other athletes trying to become great soccer players obviously will fail at everything else, right?

I don't know whats worse...that argument or the down-syndrome one.

 

[Seven]

Of course it is. Because all the other athletes trying to become great soccer players obviously will fail at everything else, right?

I don't know whats worse...that argument or the down-syndrome one.

That's not what the American dream is though.

The American dream means: work = result.

You're twisting and turning now. Also, very few people set out to be billionaires.

 

[Hust]

That's not what the American dream is though.

The American dream means: work = result.

You're twisting and turning now.

I'm twisting and turning how? I'm absolutely confident in both my argument and the American Dream, as stated. So, until I concede you have a point lets not exaggerate to try to support your own case.

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Let me ask you this: What is YOUR definition of success, Seven. For YOU to be successful on YOUR own terms, define it.