Baltimore Riots/Freddie Gray (20 Viewers)

[AndreaCristiano]

I can't believe how ungrateful those people can be. They were born and bred in a privileged country.
My uncles who (legally) immigrated to the US 40 years ago are grateful for the opportunity they were given in a new country and are now enjoying their retirement in Miami and Virginia. Did I mention they didn't have college degrees?

Neither does my father he has an 8th grade education. My mother has the same yet makes 18 dollars an hour working for wegmans markets started at minimum wage all the while working hard with a thick accent to make it to a team leader role and good wage.

 

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[Seven]

I'm twisting and turning how? I'm absolutely confident in both my argument and the American Dream, as stated. So, until I concede you have a point lets not exaggerate to try to support your own case.

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Let me ask you this: What is YOUR definition of success, Seven. For YOU to be successful on YOUR own terms, define it.

I don't know. There is no such thing as true "success" IMO. I can be successful in certain parts of life, certain career paths though.

Like Ocelot has already stated though: social mobility is low in the States. And that's one of the biggest aspects of the American Dream in the first place.

If you're starving, you don't pursue happiness, you pursue food.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

What it comes down to and what is infuriating is that American society claims that if you work hard, good things will happen when it is obvious that this is not always so. Then if people are bankrupt because they fell ill, you blame them, because if they had worked hard, they'd be rich. So surely they are lazy.

It's not always so because of the individual and their attitude. If one isn't a victim and does what's necessary they will and can succeed in this land

 

[Seven]

It's not always so because of the individual and their attitude. If one isn't a victim and does what's necessary they will and can succeed in this land

No. They might.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

No. They might.

No they will. They may not be millionaires but they can live a good life. That's the American Dream. Living a good life

 

[Seven]

No they will. They may not be millionaires but they can live a good life. That's the American Dream. Living a good life

What if they worked long and hard and now have pancreatic cancer? Is that living a good life?

Also, you say this as if jobs are everywhere. They're just not.

 

[Hust]

I don't know. There is no such thing as true "success" IMO. I can be successful in certain parts of life, certain career paths though.

Like Ocelot has already stated though: social mobility is low in the States. And that's one of the biggest aspects of the American Dream in the first place.

I've already agreed with Ocelot that is certainly true, as things stand, more so than ever. But still possible.

Regardless, if you can't define success on your own terms then there is no point in arguing is there?

Simply put, success is different to everyone. If the American Dream ethos simply said you can be a millionaire all you need to do is try then sure, you would have a point. But to outright say the Dream is a lie when you can't even answer your own definition of personal success let alone everyone living here is silly in my opinion.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

What if they worked long and hard and now have pancreatic cancer? Is that living a good life?

Cancer has no bearing on this discussion. You're going off on a tangent. The discussion here is can one if they chose too make their life better and why it doesn't happen in certain circles.

 

[Hust]

What if they worked long and hard and now have pancreatic cancer? Is that living a good life?

Also, you say this as if jobs are everywhere. They're just not.

What is this with you and adding health into the equation? Is the cancer treatable or terminal? Maybe knowing that person might die would motivate them more than before they had cancer to accomplish something before they die on their own terms of success. You simply don't know.

 

[Seven]

Cancer has no bearing on this discussion. You're going off on a tangent. The discussion here is can one if they chose too make their life better and why it doesn't happen in certain circles.

Oh right. Because cancer is a circumstance and circumstances don't matter. What the fuck? Are you kidding me?

 

[Hust]

The American Dream is nothing more than ideals, not a guarantee to have a healthy life.

 

[IliveForJuve]

A Bolivian and two American Wife Beaters have provided first hand experiences of the American dream.

Here's another one: When my family lived in the US, my older brother worked and saved most of his salary then when we came back to Bolivia he started his first business with the capital he made in 'Murica. The fat fucker now owns 4 successful businesses. Is this a Bolivian-American dream? x2

 

[Seven]

What is this with you and adding health into the equation? Is the cancer treatable or terminal? Maybe knowing that person might die would motivate them more than before they had cancer to accomplish something before they die on their own terms of success. You simply don't know.

Let's make this real easy.

- Average Joe wants to be rich. That's his personal goal.
- He works very hard for 10 years. He has built up a bit of money.
- He gets cancer.
- He has to pay his medical bills and his money evaporates.
- Now he is poor.
- Since he's poor, he must be lazy, because if you work hard, you achieve your goals and his goal was to be rich. He's nothing but a lazy bum.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Oh right. Because cancer is a circumstance and circumstances don't matter. What the $#@!? Are you kidding me?

This has no bearing on this discussion. Everyone in Baltimore neither is ill nor dealing with circumstances for the most part that are out of their control. The majority can control their choices and circumstances

 

[Seven]

The American Dream is nothing more than ideals, not a guarantee to have a healthy life.

It's an illusion that pisses all over the poor.

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This has no bearing on this discussion. Everyone in Baltimore neither is ill nor dealing with circumstances for the most part that are out of their control. The majority can control their choices and circumstances

They all chose to be born in Baltimore?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Let's make this real easy.

- Average Joe wants to be rich. That's his personal goal.
- He works very hard for 10 years. He has built up a bit of money.
- He gets cancer.
- He has to pay his medical bills and his money evaporates.
- Now he is poor.
- Since he's poor, he must be lazy, because if you work hard, you achieve your goals and his goal was to be rich. He's nothing but a lazy bum.

Once again your understanding of the American Dream is wrong. It's not about rich it's about the ability to make your life better

 

[AndreaCristiano]

It's an illusion that pisses all over the poor.

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They all chose to be born in Baltimore?

You are either thick or acting ignorant. Baltimore was and is he crux of this discussion hence why I used it. The only illusion is the one where you think living in America should guarantee you wealth

 

[Seven]

It's not always so because of the individual and their attitude. If one isn't a victim and does what's necessary they will and can succeed in this land

Let's make this real easy.

- Average Joe wants to be rich. That's his personal goal.
- He works very hard for 10 years. He has built up a bit of money.
- He gets cancer.
- He has to pay his medical bills and his money evaporates.
- Now he is poor.
- Since he's poor, he must be lazy, because if you work hard, you achieve your goals and his goal was to be rich. He's nothing but a lazy bum.

Once again your understanding of the American Dream is wrong. It's not about rich it's about the ability to make your life better

You said that if someone works hard he can and will make it. But Average Joe worked so hard. And he didn't make it. He died poor and alone.

Explain.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Something as unpredictable as cancer shouldn't be taken into account for this discussion. And no, America won't make you rich but at least draws the starting line closer between the rich and the poor. In other words, it gives you the tools to succeed.

 

[Seven]

Something as unpredictable as cancer shouldn't be taken into account for this discussion. And no, America won't make you rich but at least draws the starting line closer between the rich and the poor. In other words, it gives you the tools to succeed.

It should. They say that if you work hard, you WILL make it. Regardless of circumstances. It's a fucking lie.