Ballon d'Or (14 Viewers)

[BayernFan]

Well that's crazy.
Cannavaro was one of the select few defender superstars (and almost from the very start of his career), others being R.Carlos, Maldini, Nesta and more recently Ramos.

Lahm?

Was solid from a very young age. Wasn't a CB I know, but he had insane ability to read the game and when to tackle.

 

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[Elvin]

Lahm?

Was solid from a very young age. Wasn't a CB I know, but he had insane ability to read the game and when to tackle.

Not charismatic enough.

 

[BayernFan]

Not charismatic enough.

Wtf is that supposed to mean when judging his defensive attributes?

 

[Elvin]

Wtf is that supposed to mean when judging his defensive attributes?

I said superstar. Lahm was a great RB, thats it.

 

[Osman]

I'm sure Chiellini himself would find this comment funny.

At this point I'm not sure this guy seen prime Cannavaro play, and just going over career credentials.

 

[BayernFan]

I said superstar. Lahm was a great RB, thats it.

So a treble and world cup winning captain is not a superstar?

 

[Elvin]

So a treble and world cup winning captain is not a superstar?

It's hard to explain.
The defenders I mentioned had an x-factor.

Everyone will agree that Benzema is a great and even a legendary CF right? But I say he is no super star, but Lewa is, Sheva was, Drogba was etc.

It's hard to explain, you just know it.

 

[BayernFan]

It's hard to explain.
The defenders I mentioned had an x-factor.

Everyone will agree that Benzema is a great and even a legendary CF right? But I say he is no super star, but Lewa is, Sheva was, Drogba was etc.

It's hard to explain, you just know it.

I get your point.

But were Nesta and Maldini more charismatic than Lahm? I remember Maldini as a relatively calm guy on the pitch, same with Nesta. Their leadership and ability to read the game was outstanding. Lahm was leading more by example and never recieved a red card in his career, Nesta and Maldini were very intelligent defenders too.

Benzema not being viewed as a superstar might be because he was always overshadowed by Ronaldo and to some extent Bale in the first 3-4 years.

Now that he's the sole striker in front we really start to see his qualities as a goalscorer. If he had the role of a Lewa, Sheva or Drogba from day 1 as the number 1 man in front I think we would view him differently.

Not to forget he scored 72 goals in the CL, he's the 4th highest goalscorer in the history of the competition. He's nly behind the two aliens Ronaldo and Messi and a historic great striker like Lewandowski.

 

[Elvin]

I get your point.

But were Nesta and Maldini more charismatic than Lahm? I remember Maldini as a relatively calm guy on the pitch, same with Nesta. Their leadership and ability to read the game was outstanding. Lahm was leading more by example and never recieved a red card in his career, Nesta and Maldini were very intelligent defenders too.

Benzema not being viewed as a superstar might be because he was always overshadowed by Ronaldo and to some extent Bale in the first 3-4 years.

Now that he's the sole striker in front we really start to see his qualities as a goalscorer. If he had the role of a Lewa, Sheva or Drogba from day 1 as the number 1 man in front I think we would view him differently.

Not to forget he scored 72 goals in the CL, he's the 4th highest goalscorer in the history of the competition. He's nly behind the two aliens Ronaldo and Messi and a historic great striker like Lewandowski.

He has surpassed Raúl (who also was often overshadowed by bigger stars in his team) in every way but Raúl is still a bigger legend and superstar.

Again, hard to explain

 

[GiocataGrande]

Of course. I also wouldve given the 2010 ballon d'or to Sneinder or Iniesta not Messi despite Messi (obviously) being the better and more legendary player.

The only reason to give it to jorginho would be trophies. He had a very good season no doubt, but was he really that instrumental in either of Chelseas CL campaign or Italys Euro win ?

Personally i think several players are way ahead of him.

Agree with the sneijder thing tho.

 

[Strickland]

Based on talent at that age, or having the hindsight of seeing them both at 37 years old?

I think if Cannavaro comes through at Juve and gets a shirt at 20 like Del Piero or Chiellini did then he'd line up alongside Scirea in our best XI, he'd have 650-700 games here, Calciopoli notwithstanding. Chiellini is a considerably less gifted player who has squeezed every last ounce out of his talent and married it with an unnerving mentality to have a fantastic career. And as I said, his longevity is greater. Plus captaining his team to the Euros at 37 forever cements his legend.

Cannavaros career in a time where players more often stayed at one club suggests hed run down his contract to join City on a free transfer much sooner than 700 games in his Juve career Imo Cannavaro read the game at a better level and was on another planet on the ball compared to Chiello, but Giorgio is gifted in his own ways - the grinta, the raw strength, the man marking ability.

Imo we tend to overrate past generations, I think everyone is happy to agree that Chiellini and Ramos are the best defenders of their gen, yet its somehow blasphemous to think Chiellini is better than Cannavaro. Why?

 

[JuveJay]

Imo we tend to overrate past generations, I think everyone is happy to agree that Chiellini and Ramos are the best defenders of their gen, yet its somehow blasphemous to think Chiellini is better than Cannavaro. Why?

Because I watched both play.

 

[Osman]

Because the standard of defending in previous generation was much higher? And Cannavaro was top 3 CB for most of his career. He was individually easily more skilled and better then Chiellini as a defender. Chiellini has a more straightlined consistent career from young age til 37 in same top club, elevates his career acheivements with that kind of solid streak and acheivements. But FFS Canna was direct competing and compared to Nesta throughout his career, and I consider Nesta the best pure defender ever. As a player Canna was a step above Chiellini in skill level. Tho he would prolly wish he had the same club career Chiellini had.



One of those games Canna showed as many times before, that he was an absolute dominant wall:

 

[U Picciriddu]

Ronaldo and Messi lifted the ceiling for striker so high and draw all the attention to them, that it made us overlook the great defenders of this generation.

Although I have to confess that this generation of defenders was less appealing, bar Chiellini and Ramos. But there were/are some good players like T Silva who might’ve had a higher reputation during different era’s

 

[il brutto]

Ronaldo and Messi lifted the ceiling for striker so high and draw all the attention to them, that it made us overlook the great defenders of this generation.

Although I have to confess that this generation of defenders was less appealing, bar Chiellini and Ramos. But there were/are some good players like T Silva who might’ve had a higher reputation during different era’s

I'd put Thiago Silva alongside Chiello and Ramos. Then you have guys like Kompany and Godin who were really good for a while but didn't quite have the longevity of the aforementioned three.

 

[ALC]

It’s easier to look good against national teams than clubs.

 

[Strickland]

Because the standard of defending in previous generation was much higher? And Cannavaro was top 3 CB for most of his career. He was individually easily more skilled and better then Chiellini as a defender. Chiellini has a more straightlined consistent career from young age til 37 in same top club, elevates his career acheivements with that kind of solid streak and acheivements.

Standard of defending was higher -> less goals were scored? The strikers were better? Or you're just nostalgic for your childhood? If anything, football rules over time have changed in favor of the attackers not defenders.

Consistency and longetivity is a big thing in sports, for a while Fernando Torres was unbelievable, but in the 2nd part of his career he became so washed up I'd never consider him overall better than Lewa, who started with much less talent.

Chiellini has had many legendary games as well, but I'm struggling to remember the last time someone did Chiellini as dirty as Aston Villa legend John Carew vs Cannavaro:

 

[JuveJay]

Look at this guy. De Gea is better.

 

[Strickland]

Look at this guy. De Gea is better.

1. Osman started the youtube thing, I know, its silly
2. De Gea, really, thats the goalie from this gen youd put up against Gigi? Weird taste man

 

[Elvin]

Because the standard of defending in previous generation was much higher? And Cannavaro was top 3 CB for most of his career. He was individually easily more skilled and better then Chiellini as a defender. Chiellini has a more straightlined consistent career from young age til 37 in same top club, elevates his career acheivements with that kind of solid streak and acheivements. But FFS Canna was direct competing and compared to Nesta throughout his career, and I consider Nesta the best pure defender ever. As a player Canna was a step above Chiellini in skill level. Tho he would prolly wish he had the same club career Chiellini had.



One of those games Canna showed as many times before, that he was an absolute dominant wall:

and all this being short as fuck, not even short for a CB, just overall short. It's crazy.

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Because I watched both play.

same here. I watched both Canna and Chiellini's entire careers. Chiellini is a level or even two below for sure.