I'm loving the expertise on the Qur'an in here 
exactly, i am honestly tired of that excuse when all the suicide bombers have prayed to allah
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- Thread starter The Curr
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exactly, i am honestly tired of that excuse when all the suicide bombers have prayed to allah
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The funny thing is no one dares to think about the possibility that that maybe never happened, and the same for other religions. But the fear factor is key word for religion, I am so lucky of not having that in me, and that I can look at this objectively.
Let me put this straight for you guys, I know what you are trying to do.. first of all, like I mentioned in my previous post, will say it again. I am not following that expert, and not doing what he is telling me, actually this is what religious people do, see the difference? I am not concluding these things because of that expert. I am just proving you, and showing you how everything is messed up, when we have two groups, who read the same book, but have a total different stand. This dude is not a regular person like you and me, this dude has majored in Islam, and is a professor, if you don't value that, then you don't value education, and you don't value Islam education.
You are just telling me then that "just read the book, and think whatever you want, you have the right to do that" no? This fuckin dude read the book all his life, and he has that opinion, will you go and tell him to read the book again? but he already did? or maybe he and us don't have that high logical capacity that you guys do?
Let me put this straight for you guys, I know what you are trying to do.. first of all, like I mentioned in my previous post, will say it again. I am not following that expert, and not doing what he is telling me, actually this is what religious people do, see the difference? I am not concluding these things because of that expert. I am just proving you, and showing you how everything is messed up, when we have two groups, who read the same book, but have a total different stand. This dude is not a regular person like you and me, this dude has majored in Islam, and is a professor, if you don't value that, then you don't value education, and you don't value Islam education.
You are just telling me then that "just read the book, and think whatever you want, you have the right to do that" no? This fuckin dude read the book all his life, and he has that opinion, will you go and tell him to read the book again? but he already did? or maybe he and us don't have that high logical capacity that you guys do?
First of all, no one is ordered to do anything. Everything is by choice. The word you're looking for is prescribed. And yes, I already told you, there are plenty of people that claim that hijab is no necessary. Most of them say that it was only meant for the wives and women of the Holy Prophet's time and that in todays society it is no longer needed. But then why follow a religion which teachings have 'expired'? That doesn't make sense.
In Islam everyone is urged to be experts. No University in the world can make anyone an expert in Islam because its something that anyone can do if they so wish. It's all about having the interest and urge to do so. The only thing that differ regular worshipers from Imams is that an Imam chose to become an Imam. Same goes with the University educated person with a degree in theology. The materials are there for anyone to do the same thing without having to any of the above. Heck, there are 8 year old kids that are Hafiz-e-Qur'an, i.e. they've memorized the Qur'an from cover to cover by memory!
The reason why people say that you should look at the Qur'an in its entirety is because it's not written like a story book; things aren't written in a chronological order. You may find something in one place and in order to fully understand you may find the answer in another place.
For the very same reason you shouldn't take the word of any one person. If anyone and that includes me as well makes a claim then go check for yourself whether that is right according to the scripture. You don't necessarily have to read the whole Qur'an but look up things according to the relevance of the issue. In this case it's hijab, so look up what the Qur'an says about hijab.
It's really simple, for ex. If I wanted to know how many goals Del Piero scored in 1999/2000, I'd simply look up the statistics for that very season; I certainly wouldn't look at his career stats.
In Islam everyone is urged to be experts. No University in the world can make anyone an expert in Islam because its something that anyone can do if they so wish. It's all about having the interest and urge to do so. The only thing that differ regular worshipers from Imams is that an Imam chose to become an Imam. Same goes with the University educated person with a degree in theology. The materials are there for anyone to do the same thing without having to any of the above. Heck, there are 8 year old kids that are Hafiz-e-Qur'an, i.e. they've memorized the Qur'an from cover to cover by memory!
The reason why people say that you should look at the Qur'an in its entirety is because it's not written like a story book; things aren't written in a chronological order. You may find something in one place and in order to fully understand you may find the answer in another place.
For the very same reason you shouldn't take the word of any one person. If anyone and that includes me as well makes a claim then go check for yourself whether that is right according to the scripture. You don't necessarily have to read the whole Qur'an but look up things according to the relevance of the issue. In this case it's hijab, so look up what the Qur'an says about hijab.
It's really simple, for ex. If I wanted to know how many goals Del Piero scored in 1999/2000, I'd simply look up the statistics for that very season; I certainly wouldn't look at his career stats.
Dude, I can't read the Qur'an. I mean, I can't speak Arabic. Seriously though, you keep missing the point and it's very annoying. It's not about the Qur'an as a book that inspires violence, it's about the Qur'an containing a couple of passages that one could use if he would defend islamic violence. That's a completely different statement, Ze. Honestly, I would like you to read my posts, because otherwise this whole debate is useless.
I obviously referred to the Bible, because nowadays people will all tell you christianity does not promote violence, but we all know the Bible could be used to just such. In the end it all depends on how people deal with certain pages.
As for the quality of the Qur'an.. well, someone claiming he has a "pure" version of two other books that tell the same stories is a bit of a copycat in my book
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Come on .
I obviously referred to the Bible, because nowadays people will all tell you christianity does not promote violence, but we all know the Bible could be used to just such. In the end it all depends on how people deal with certain pages.
As for the quality of the Qur'an.. well, someone claiming he has a "pure" version of two other books that tell the same stories is a bit of a copycat in my book
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Fair enough, but why is it that out of the 1 billion+ adherents of Islam you chose to listen to the bad ones? Do I turn to the teachings of the Ku Klux Klan for my questions regarding Christianity?
I've been on the forums for four years now and not once have you asked me anything regarding Islam (I'd like to think that I'm a good representative of Islam) However you love to come up with your own interpretations, such as the one claiming that Islam defends violence.
I've been on the forums for four years now and not once have you asked me anything regarding Islam
(I'd like to think that I'm a good representative of Islam) However you love to come up with your own interpretations, such as the one claiming that Islam defends violence.
.For me personally every religion with that basic principle is ridiculous. Someone claiming to have spoken to God is referred to a psychiatrist these days and almost every christian or muslim would agree that it's quite possible that the guy could need some help.
But when it's some guy who lived 600 years ago, the rules seem to change. The sad reality is that the Prophet was probably a guy like you and me, with the same motifs, likes and dislikes, only a wee bit more charismatic.
But hey, this is just a personal opinion and doesn't have any bearing on the current discussion.
But when it's some guy who lived 600 years ago, the rules seem to change. The sad reality is that the Prophet was probably a guy like you and me, with the same motifs, likes and dislikes, only a wee bit more charismatic.
But hey, this is just a personal opinion and doesn't have any bearing on the current discussion.
Dude, I can't read the Qur'an. I mean, I can't speak Arabic. Seriously though, you keep missing the point and it's very annoying. It's not about the Qur'an as a book that inspires violence, it's about the Qur'an containing a couple of passages that one could use if he would defend islamic violence. That's a completely different statement, Ze. Honestly, I would like you to read my posts, because otherwise this whole debate is useless.
I obviously referred to the Bible, because nowadays people will all tell you christianity does not promote violence, but we all know the Bible could be used to just such. In the end it all depends on how people deal with certain pages.
As for the quality of the Qur'an.. well, someone claiming he has a "pure" version of two other books that tell the same stories is a bit of a copycat in my book.
I obviously referred to the Bible, because nowadays people will all tell you christianity does not promote violence, but we all know the Bible could be used to just such. In the end it all depends on how people deal with certain pages.
As for the quality of the Qur'an.. well, someone claiming he has a "pure" version of two other books that tell the same stories is a bit of a copycat in my book
.
I certainly can't disagree with that. People misinterpret things all the time. Religion has been used to brainwash people and that's not a new thing either. Then again, governments brainwash people too. Which is why you have to be on your toes and think for yourself. That doesn't mean that the message is wrong. So we can agree on that 100%.
Secondly, you don't have to read the Qur'an in Arabic my friend. I read the Qur'an in Arabic with translation into Urdu, English, and Swedish. There are copies of the Qur'an in Italian, German, Dutch and French (which ever one you're fluent in) and I'll be more than happy to send you a free copy (I have sent people copies in the past).
Agreed for the same reasons mentioned above.
You must be referring to the fact that there are numerous similarity's with the Bible and the Torah, correct? Well Islam is supposed to be the complete religion and the monotheistic religions before are steps towards Islam. Hence the Qur'an is considered the final word of God; no other revealed source is to come. So if the previous teachings are from God then this would certainly contain them as well.
What? I'm serious
Secondly, you don't have to read the Qur'an in Arabic my friend. I read the Qur'an in Arabic with translation into Urdu, English, and Swedish. There are copies of the Qur'an in Italian, German, Dutch and French (which ever one you're fluent in) and I'll be more than happy to send you a free copy (I have sent people copies in the past).
Agreed for the same reasons mentioned above.
As for the quality of the Qur'an.. well, someone claiming he has a "pure" version of two other books that tell the same stories is a bit of a copycat in my book .
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Come on .
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Damn right. All that stuff copies each other.
Which, IMO, is the real story. The story isn't in what's said as much as the reasons and motivations behind why so many different religions and different societies spread throughout the world lift, borrow, and steal each other's stories -- from creation myths on down.
What I worry about that logic -- i.e., the "new and improved!" argument -- is that you can use the same line to claim that Mormonism is the most complete and accurate evolution of the monotheistic religions ... or worse, Scientology.
Which, IMO, is the real story. The story isn't in what's said as much as the reasons and motivations behind why so many different religions and different societies spread throughout the world lift, borrow, and steal each other's stories -- from creation myths on down.
What I worry about that logic -- i.e., the "new and improved!" argument -- is that you can use the same line to claim that Mormonism is the most complete and accurate evolution of the monotheistic religions ... or worse, Scientology.
I don't think Avril is more sexy than this hot Malaysian woman.
Although, it's not cool to make fun of these poor people you guys.
Although, it's not cool to make fun of these poor people you guys.
