Atomic Winter mercato 2016 (25 Viewers)

[JuveJay]

Basically Klopp is a personable version of Conte.

 

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[Bianconero_Aus]

Do you remember when Bonucci dribbled his way out of their famed geggenpress?

 

[Zacheryah]

Klopp a tactical master? That's just ridiculous. Klopp's strenghts as a coach stems from two places: 1) he has created a tactical setup that is effective if the players buy in 2) he is a great motivator. That being said, the man has no notion of a plan b. If his opponents play around his midfield press trap - as hard as it is to play around it there are plenty of examples where teams succeeded, us being one of them - he just keeps whipping his players to do the same thing. He is the definition of a one trick pony, not that it makes him a bad coach tactically, but far from a mastermind. I wouldnt put him anywhere near Max, Pep, Carlo and the likes.

That dortmund we faced, wasent really what it used to be quality wise.

Players sold, lewa, gotze
Players recovering, reus, gundogan
A few injured

Guardiola faced an equal team twice. Bayern in 2013.

 

[Nzoric]

That dortmund we faced, wasent really what it used to be quality wise.

Players sold, lewa, gotze
Players recovering, reus, gundogan
A few injured

Guardiola faced an equal team twice. Bayern in 2013.

How does that alter what I wrote? He has a tuned system and is able to motivate his players, of course his results are going to vary given the quality of his players. But the system always remains the same and he cant tinker or tailor his approach to save his life. Look at his in game decisions "Press harder, run more" sums it up.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Do you remember when Bonucci dribbled his way out of their famed geggenpress?

you do know thats not really pressing

 

[Ocelot]

Klopp a tactical master? That's just ridiculous. Klopp's strenghts as a coach stems from two places: 1) he has created a tactical setup that is effective if the players buy in 2) he is a great motivator. That being said, the man has no notion of a plan b. If his opponents play around his midfield press trap - as hard as it is to play around it there are plenty of examples where teams succeeded, us being one of them - he just keeps whipping his players to do the same thing. He is the definition of a one trick pony, not that it makes him a bad coach tactically, but far from a mastermind. I wouldnt put him anywhere near Max, Pep, Carlo and the likes.

 

[zizinho]

@DAiDEViL @zizinho

Saponara

both

 

[DAiDEViL]

@DAiDEViL @zizinho

Saponara

you OK Alex?

 

[Zacheryah]

How does that alter what I wrote? He has a tuned system and is able to motivate his players, of course his results are going to vary given the quality of his players. But the system always remains the same and he cant tinker or tailor his approach to save his life. Look at his in game decisions "Press harder, run more" sums it up.

I liked the style it created, but surely he adapted the pressing, positionning and marking depending on what opponent they faced ?


Bit like Conte. He wouldnt adapt his system and was rigid with it, like Klopp, but Conte adjusted many things in the tactical roles depending on the supposed opponent gameplay and individual quality

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Basically Klopp is a personable version of Conte.

I'd say thats rather accurate.

 

[Nzoric]

I liked the style it created, but surely he adapted the pressing, positionning and marking depending on what opponent they faced ?


Bit like Conte. He wouldnt adapt his system and was rigid with it, like Klopp, but Conte adjusted many things in the tactical roles depending on the supposed opponent gameplay and individual quality

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I'd say thats rather accurate.

I didnt see much difference in approach depending on teams, its the same trap and its effective if his players leave it all on the pitch and the opponent doesnt play around it.
Also, I have a tough time identifying your argument, is he a tactical mastermind or a personable conte? Those two are mutually exclusive.

 

[Hydde]

Basically Klopp is a personable version of Conte.

 

[Zacheryah]

I didnt see much difference in approach depending on teams, its the same trap and its effective if his players leave it all on the pitch and the opponent doesnt play around it.
Also, I have a tough time identifying your argument, is he a tactical mastermind or a personable conte? Those two are mutually exclusive.

That depends. You could say a person who can employ multiple formations is tactically versatile.

Making each of those work perfectly, is tactical skill
Sticking to always the same formation, but changing the approach, runlines and tactical tasks for each opponent, is also tactical skill


An opponent using a highly effecting double wing system for example. Blocking the wings could tempt into using a 4 backline. or, you could stick to your single wing 352 but change tactical roles and support instructions, to dislocate the wing play.


I tought Conte was pretty good at adapting the player roles to the opponent without altering the formation, wouldnt you say ?

 

[DAiDEViL]

Basically Klopp is a personable version of Conte.

Klopp personable @lgorTudor

 

[Mark]

anybody heard about this kid?

http://www.generazioneditalenti.it/rogerio-1998-brasile/

 

[Nzoric]

That depends. You could say a person who can employ multiple formations is tactically versatile.

Making each of those work perfectly, is tactical skill
Sticking to always the same formation, but changing the approach, runlines and tactical tasks for each opponent, is also tactical skill


An opponent using a highly effecting double wing system for example. Blocking the wings could tempt into using a 4 backline. or, you could stick to your single wing 352 but change tactical roles and support instructions, to dislocate the wing play.


I tought Conte was pretty good at adapting the player roles to the opponent without altering the formation, wouldnt you say ?

it is the same midfield trap game in game out, its the same crowding of the box and its the same outcome when it doesnt work. He is a tactical mule ffs.

Conte did much more tinkering than Klopp does.

 

[Nzoric]

And no, I wouldnt claim that Conte was good at it. Considering our poor record against teams of higher quality I would argue that Conte just consolidated his concept of soaking up pressure rather than attempting to distrupt the opponents play. We dominated poorer teams because we were impenetrabte, but that didnt take much adaptability as we were so much better than the rest of the serie a player by player. Look at how we crumbled against Bayern or how insecure we felt in crucial chl games where we needed a result.

 

[Zacheryah]

it is the same midfield trap game in game out, its the same crowding of the box and its the same outcome when it doesnt work. He is a tactical mule ffs.

Conte did much more tinkering than Klopp does.

I dont know that well, i was in awe on how effective that tactic was. His pressing the box aside, he'll have to position his central box and fill in who supports the pressing where, when to step out, and on your own half wich players you press and how you position.

Badly coordinated pressing without maintaining structure and a unit, is fairly easy to pass out off.


But you seem to know Klopp better then i do

 

[Nzoric]

I dont know that well, i was in awe on how effective that tactic was. His pressing the box aside, he'll have to position his central box and fill in who supports the pressing where, when to step out, and on your own half wich players you press and how you position.

Badly coordinated pressing without maintaining structure and a unit, is fairly easy to pass out off.


But you seem to know Klopp better then i do

The fact that he is a one trick pony doesnt make his one trick any less impressive. But imo you need more then that to be considered a tactical mastermind

 

[DAiDEViL]

it is the same midfield trap game in game out, its the same crowding of the box and its the same outcome when it doesnt work. He is a tactical mule ffs.

Conte did much more tinkering than Klopp does.

one trick pony - as you said.

let‘s say we are 20 minutes into the game, and even the biggest douche
infront of the TV realised it doesn‘t work - Klopp is gonna do nothing.
he never changes tactics. either it works or it doesn‘t.

 

[Zacheryah]

And no, I wouldnt claim that Conte was good at it. Considering our poor record against teams of higher quality I would argue that Conte just consolidated his concept of soaking up pressure rather than attempting to distrupt the opponents play. We dominated poorer teams because we were impenetrabte, but that didnt take much adaptability as we were so much better than the rest of the serie a player by player. Look at how we crumbled against Bayern or how insecure we felt in crucial chl games where we needed a result.

reading this, i can only conclude you have to greatly admire Allegri, who is tactically versatile in formations, on how we defend, manages to counterattack with a 3-5-2, and made it look fluent and beautifull and highly effective in chance creation whilst maintaining an impossibly strong organisation and defence.

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The fact that he is a one trick pony doesnt make his one trick any less impressive. But imo you need more then that to be considered a tactical mastermind

It was too much to call him that. But he has some accolade by his succesfull adaptation of geggenpressing.
In contrast, the uninspiring abscence of tactical play in most english teams


Kinda hope him and especially Ranieri will do well