Ashoura crazy night (2 Viewers)

[Zé Tahir]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8432409.stm

 

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[AbuGadanzieri]

I know this is a very sensitive topic for Shia so apologies in advance if my opinion is offensive to anyone. I personally know many Shia who observe Ashoura without doing any of these things showing in the video so it's not fair to call Ashoura a crazy night, as in the thread title, just because of the actions of some people.

I have seen similar images in the reenactment of the crusifiction in countries like the philippines but that does make the day they are observing a crazy one as I'm sure there are other people who observe it in different manner.


Anyways the behavior shown in the video is wrong and shouldn't be attributed to Islam in any way, shape or form.

Just to make it clear, I have the utmost respect and love for Imam Hussein and beleive he was the most worthy of leading the Muslim nation during his time but I don't think he would have approved any of the actions showing in the video.

I personally, like many others Sunni's, observe the occasion by fasting two days (9th & 10th of Muharram) but I observe Ashoura for a totally different reason other than that of the death of Imam Hussein. I observe the day because it has been narrated in Hadeeth that Ashoura is the day when Allah (SWT) saved Moussa (Moses) from the Pharaoh and that day marked a turing point in the history of all of the monotheistic relegions.

 

[AbuGadanzieri]

what you think
please discuss

 

[X Æ A-12]

wow, how some people manage to remain living like its the 14th century is beyond me

 

[Bjerknes]

How can this not be attributed to Islam?

 

[Ahmed]

How can this not be attributed to Islam?

because nowhere in the Qur'an does it say it instruct these loonies to do that

 

[AbuGadanzieri]

How can this not be attributed to Islam?

It's simply not required or even mentioned in any of the Quran, Sunnah or any other islamic sources of Sharia. It is simply some people who are taking their grief for the death of Imam Hussein too far. Islam never asked for or mandated any of that and I would go as far as saying that Islam would even frown upon such actions as their are commonly known mouring rules derived from the sunnah (checkout the link)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_death_rituals#Rules_for_Mourning

Also in addition, non of the decendants of Imam Hussein (they all are considered revered Imams for Shia and respected rightous men for Sunnis) non of them have mourned the death of Imam hussein in that way.

It's simply some youth who are taking their enthusiasim a little overboard without consulting any of the Sharia sources.

 

[Fred]

Everyone who partakes in such idiocy should be jailed. Zero tolerance.

I don't care what you do to yourself as a mature grown up, but as soon as you involve children in such idiocies, thats where i draw the line. Jail is too little for those who drag kids into this bullshit.

 

[Bjerknes]

because nowhere in the Qur'an does it say it instruct these loonies to do that

It's simply not required or even mentioned in any of the Quran, Sunnah or any other islamic sources of Sharia. It is simply some people who are taking their grief for the death of Imam Hussein too far. Islam never asked for or mandated any of that and I would go as far as saying that Islam would even frown upon such actions as their are commonly known mouring rules derived from the sunnah (checkout the link)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_death_rituals#Rules_for_Mourning

Also in addition, non of the decendants of Imam Hussein (they all are considered revered Imams for Shia and respected rightous men for Sunnis) non of them have mourned the death of Imam hussein in that way.

It's simply some youth who are taking their enthusiasim a little overboard without consulting any of the Sharia sources.

Are the likes of Umrah, Arafat, Safa and Marwa explained in the Quoran?

If not, then why are they accepted by Islam?

Whenever something horrible like this comes to light, this is the excuse. "It's not in the Quoran." But yet, it's still tradition by some Muslims, meaning it is part of the culture.

 

[YasoR17]

There is a difference between culture and religion. These actions are not mentioned in the Quran whatsoever. Believe it or not.

 

[Fred]

Are the likes of Umrah, Arafat, Safa and Marwa explained in the Quoran?

If not, then why are they accepted by Islam?

Whenever something horrible like this comes to light, this is the excuse. "It's not in the Quoran." But yet, it's still tradition by some Muslims, meaning it is part of the culture.

If something is not explained in the Koran, then its explained in the Sunna, if not then they use analogies, if not then by unanimous opinion of muslim scholars.

This practice does not come from any of those 4 sources of legistlation in Islam. Furthermore a minority of misleaded, delusional muslims do this. It is a big generalization if you judge the whole religion on the practices of a misleaded minority.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

If something is not explained in the Koran, then its explained in the Sunna, if not then they use analogies, if not then by unanimous opinion of muslim scholars.

This practice does not come from any of those 4 sources of legistlation in Islam. Furthermore a minority of misleaded, delusional muslims do this. It is a big generalization if you judge the whole religion on the practices of a misleaded minority.

ijmaa precedes qiyas

 

[Elvin]

This is retarded, and not just retarded but scary retarded, the kind of retarded that leaves you in horror, and you can hardly believe that somewhere in the world something like this is accepted at this time and age.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THEM?!

The scariest thing is that they do it precisely because they're scared (for their souls whatever), and think this somehow will salvage them? :wth:

 

[Ahmed]

Are the likes of Umrah, Arafat, Safa and Marwa explained in the Quoran?

If not, then why are they accepted by Islam?

Whenever something horrible like this comes to light, this is the excuse. "It's not in the Quoran." But yet, it's still tradition by some Muslims, meaning it is part of the culture.

it is not acceptable in Islam...but, according to those freaks out there, it is...very unfortunate to be honest

and please do explain what you mean by "Islamic culture"...

 

[Bjerknes]

If something is not explained in the Koran, then its explained in the Sunna, if not then they use analogies, if not then by unanimous opinion of muslim scholars.

This practice does not come from any of those 4 sources of legistlation in Islam. Furthermore a minority of misleaded, delusional muslims do this. It is a big generalization if you judge the whole religion on the practices of a misleaded minority.

Well, my mind on the religion has already been made up. But one thing I notice about followers of Islam is that they like to blame such idiocy on other ideologies when the fact of the matter is the Ashoura extremists would not exist without the ideology of Islam itself.

it is not acceptable in Islam...but, according to those freaks out there, it is...very unfortunate to be honest

and please do explain what you mean by "Islamic culture"...

Same definition in any dictionary. The shared values, attitudes and tradition of a people. Despite just a minority of Muslims partake in this nonsense it still qualifies as part of the culture.

 

[AbuGadanzieri]

Are the likes of Umrah, Arafat, Safa and Marwa explained in the Quoran?

If not, then why are they accepted by Islam?

Whenever something horrible like this comes to light, this is the excuse. "It's not in the Quoran." But yet, it's still tradition by some Muslims, meaning it is part of the culture.

Yes all of these are mentioned in Quran and they all are mentioned inn the same verse of the same chapter (Baqarah)

And again, Tradition and culture do not equal relegion.

 

[Bjerknes]

Yes all of these are mentioned in Quran and they all are mentioned inn the same verse of the same chapter (Baqarah)

And again, Tradition and culture do not equal relegion.

They might be mentioned in there, but they are not explained. Ashoura is probably mentioned but since it's not thoroughly explained as far as I know, it can be left open to interpretation. That is where the problem arises.

 

[Bjerknes]

Oh, and this tradition is celebrated by millions.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/12/20091226215722207381.html

That is enough to cause quite a lot of harm to the world.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

actually Andy you couldnt be off the mark here, islam specifically covered the etiquette of mourning so not only is this not in its tradition it is specifically singled out as wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mourning#Islam

 

[Azzurri7]

The scariest thing is that they do it precisely because they're scared (for their souls whatever), and think this somehow will salvage them?

No man, this is not the reason. I mentioned the reason in my 1st post(1st page). They don't do it because they're scared or because they think or because they believe in it, they do it because they want to feel the pain of what Hussien the grandson of Prophet Mohammed felt when he was killed in Iraq thousands of years ago. (Which is very retarded).

Some information here about Ashoura and Shi'a.

This Ashoura thing started in Iran because in Iraq it wasn't allowed during Saddam Hussien's time. Iranians started this one and they tried to spread it to the Shi'aa people around the Arab world.

Iran regime failed to spread it to Iraq when Saddam invaded them 30years ago(because Saddam felt that they're influencing the Shi'aa of Iraq).

Then they tried to spread it to Shi'aa of Lebanon. And it somehow worked because at that time we were having a civil war in Lebanon, Lebanese vs Palestinians, Lebanese vs Syrians and the situation was really terrible at that time. They spread it to Hezbollah after financing them with arm/money in 1982.

Before that, we never heard of Ashoura in Lebanon until Imam Khomeini took the power in Iran.

Thankfully, very few Shi'aa of Lebanon do practice this ugly show.