Antonio Conte (331 Viewers)

How would you rate Conte's (dis)appointment?

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Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
So you think this Italy team (which admittedly is nowhere near as good as the teams from the 80s/90s/2000s)...should be struggling to beat the likes of Malta, Albania and Azerbaijan? Should he still use the same 3-5-2 system with players out of position? He likes to blame everyone around him and RARELY blames himself for his own shortcomings.
As long he only struggles to beat them, but beats them, I don't see any problem.

And so far he's never done anything else.

I hate his fucking guts now. :/
:disagree:
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Agnelli hits back at Conte :howler:

(Sometimes I don't understand Conte, he had more than enough to work with players)


The two that were behind pushing Del Piero away :motta:

I am loving it :D
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,493
Conte needs unlimited control with team selection as well as on field decisions.

Because he gives the players no freedom on the field, instead opting for extreme organization and tactical rigidity, his teams will always perform at a familiar benchmark rarely dipping below it or exceeding it.

Sure, he will pull up the squads devoid of top talent, and that's what makes him a fine coach, but ultimately he will always end up capping the potential of more talented squads. Instinct and improvisation is what separates great players from the average and that is precisely what Conte looks to eliminate in a player.
 

Pirlo's Beard

Junkie Joe Joyce
Oct 2, 2013
11,220
Conte needs unlimited control with team selection as well as on field decisions.

Because he gives the players no freedom on the field, instead opting for extreme organization and tactical rigidity, his teams will always perform at a familiar benchmark rarely dipping below it or exceeding it.

Sure, he will pull up the squads devoid of top talent, and that's what makes him a fine coach, but ultimately he will always end up capping the potential of more talented squads. Instinct and improvisation is what separates great players from the average and that is precisely what Conte looks to eliminate in a player.
Well said

He can turn a team of technically lacking players into a unit that can grind for days

But beyond that, I don't see technically gifted attackers excelling in his team as much as they would under a different manager. Especially ones who lack the work ethic he looks for.

Glad we parted ways. Not saying Allegri is better but I am confident we'll find a better coach to further improve us in the next few years.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,408
Conte needs unlimited control with team selection as well as on field decisions.

Because he gives the players no freedom on the field, instead opting for extreme organization and tactical rigidity, his teams will always perform at a familiar benchmark rarely dipping below it or exceeding it.

Sure, he will pull up the squads devoid of top talent, and that's what makes him a fine coach, but ultimately he will always end up capping the potential of more talented squads. Instinct and improvisation is what separates great players from the average and that is precisely what Conte looks to eliminate in a player.
Who would you say has been restricted by Conte? From all the gifted players he have coached he got the most out of them.

A finished Pirlo was brought back to life. Tevez went back to being a top player under Conte but this is one I always thought he would do well. Llorente took some time to adapt but then had a very good run of games. Barzagli was a terrible defender and yet he became world class under him. Bonnuci was the master of poor defending and yet Conte managed to keep Juve's defense as one of the best in the world despite bonnucci. Vidal hit amazing heights last season and have steadily progressed. Conte gave Pogba the chance and he has been developing steadily ever since. Marchisio played better under Conte than pre-conte.

Who is it in specific that has been restricted by Conte? Our few creative players thrived under him more so than under any other coach. Who has been capped?
The fact that he can organize non-technical players and get the job done with them does not mean that he would restrict more creative ones. The few ones he has coached have all excelled under his guidance. Give him more creative players than judge but until then the evidence is against you.
 

IliveForJuve

Burn this club
Jan 17, 2011
18,425
Asamoah, for example.

Note: Not saying it's Cunte's fault or that it has anything to do with what you geys are discussing.

- - - Updated - - -

:delpiero: All praise Antonio Conte. The guy who made Chiellini our main creative force.
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,493
Who would you say has been restricted by Conte? From all the gifted players he have coached he got the most out of them.

A finished Pirlo was brought back to life. Tevez went back to being a top player under Conte but this is one I always thought he would do well. Llorente took some time to adapt but then had a very good run of games. Barzagli was a terrible defender and yet he became world class under him. Bonnuci was the master of poor defending and yet Conte managed to keep Juve's defense as one of the best in the world despite bonnucci. Vidal hit amazing heights last season and have steadily progressed. Conte gave Pogba the chance and he has been developing steadily ever since. Marchisio played better under Conte than pre-conte.

Who is it in specific that has been restricted by Conte? Our few creative players thrived under him more so than under any other coach. Who has been capped?
The fact that he can organize non-technical players and get the job done with them does not mean that he would restrict more creative ones. The few ones he has coached have all excelled under his guidance. Give him more creative players than judge but until then the evidence is against you.
Firstly, my point has nothing to do with the defence really. If anything, they are expected to improve under a rigid system. FFS, Conte was not even allowing us to put corners into the box for fear of counters.

And I don't mean that Conte necessarily has stopped players from progressing. Even Del Neri couldn't stop Vidal or Pogba from progressing to what they are now. Surely you know that.

I'm talking about the team's playing style. All you have to do is notice the difference in Tevez's role in the squad. Last year he was chained to Llorente, restricted only to choreographed movements with the target man. This year it seems he is free to do what he pleases. Would I say he has been even more influential? Probably yes.

But my main point is that in a big match, when you lack any form of improvisation, you are doomed. When Tevez is still performing the same combinations with Llorente that surely the opponent has seen many times, it is difficult to produce anything above your potential. I don't think it's a coincidence that Tevez has performed better in the CL under Allegri so far.

Obviously there is not much of a comparison to make so far as Allegri has opted to continue the 3-5-2 and is only now seriously investigating a change. In the 3-5-2 there really is only freedom for Tevez's position and we can see a clear difference there but I would never expect Allegri to tell Lichtsteiner or Asamoah that they can marauder up front as they please.

I do have a feeling that a 4 man back line will underline the difference between Conte's Juve and what our players can really give, more specifically in CL matches. Serie A is not a great measuring stick.

There are tiny examples of Allegri giving more freedom so far this season when you watch Giovinco or especially Morata. Under Conte I think Morata would have been a strict deputy of Llorente as a target man but right now we can see there is a clear difference between the two. Morata turns and heads for goal every opportunity he gets. There are times last year that Conte had to use Giovinco to replace Llorente and Giovinco was trying to replicate Llorente's function of holding the line back and staying central, which is obviously stupid.

There are other tiny examples that I can't help but notice. If you watch the Azzurri you can see the same movements from the 2 strikers that we saw for 3 years. If you watch the build up around the opponent's box you can see the CMs always set up on the corners of the box.

This year we, Juve, have seen much less of Bonucci with the ball. That's logical though and would happen organically within any team if they are left to make their own decisions. The only reason Bonucci would have so much of the ball in the past is if the coach explicitly wanted to hold possession with his back 3 and instructed the sweeper to monopolize the ball.

My overall point is that I don't think Conte's teams can ever win matches they are not supposed to win. If you take Conte's Juve and face Bayern 10 times, you will probably lose every match 2-0 or maybe tie a couple. If you take a less rigid coach you might just win 1 or 2 out of those 10 matches while the other losses might be more like 3-0 or 4-0 or even 7-1 like Garcia lol. But at least you have a chance.

That's just my view of Conte. Of course I still think he is a fine coach and he could prove me wrong with the Azzurri but right now it seems he is the same. He will win the matches he is supposed to. He will win them all 1-0, even against Albania. Even nowadays with a lesser talented Italy, does anyone really believe they are so untalented as to not be able to score more than a goal or two against some of these teams? Of course they can.
 

Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,499
Conte needs unlimited control with team selection as well as on field decisions.

Because he gives the players no freedom on the field, instead opting for extreme organization and tactical rigidity, his teams will always perform at a familiar benchmark rarely dipping below it or exceeding it.

Sure, he will pull up the squads devoid of top talent, and that's what makes him a fine coach, but ultimately he will always end up capping the potential of more talented squads. Instinct and improvisation is what separates great players from the average and that is precisely what Conte looks to eliminate in a player.
Very good post, agree with all of this tbh. He is not the kind of manager that will take a team forward in the long term. He seems like more of a results manager. He will get the team playing to a certain level but is not able to push them on any more. The team went backwards over the 3 years under Conte.

The pressing game stopped altogether in 2013, i didn't even recognise the Juve of the last 2 years to the Juve of the 2011/12 season. We were just happy to keep most of the team behind the ball when defending and would counter attack so poorly. It got to a point where u could predict exactly what would happen next when watching the team.

We were a well drilled/organised team and nothing more under Conte. Our attacking game was just no where near as good as it could have been, which is ultimately what cost us in the CL last season. We were able to get away with it in Serie A due to having the best squad by far.
 

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