Anticalcio? (1 Viewer)

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#1
It's time that all the international press is attakking Italian soccer (both NT and teams) to play not in an attractive way...
After Juventus and Inter won vs Barca and Valencia and went on in the CL, the spanish press arrived to call ouers soccer "the antisoccer".
It's pissing :( cause I'm sure that if they will win they will speak differently even if it was not dominating, but I can't desagree so mutch... Juve games are too often boring, and even if we win all that you remember is the soffering not the good gestures... and that's not entrateining at all :down:
Inter and NT are even worst... maybe I will save Milan and Lazio (but not all their games), from the teams who still playing in any international competition.
Any opinion about it? :)
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#3
I like the saying: "If you have it, use it!!" ;)

Italians are great at "Catenaccio," so there's no harm in using it.
it is still intellegent football though not as atractive.

What makes football great is that it's a free game. You can play any way you like. even if it means walking on your hands and kicking the ball with your head!!!

Nobody can call it Anti-Calcio....it's more like "anit-their definition of soccer" ....and that's just utter ignorance.

i myself prefer attacking football and want the italian game to change, but i dont see any harm in using "Catenaccio" a few games when you need to. IMO, it should only be another strategy in the strategy book to be used for a rainy day!
 
OP
OP
mate

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#4
++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
I like the saying: "If you have it, use it!!" ;)

Italians are great at "Catenaccio," so there's no harm in using it.
it is still intellegent football though not as atractive.

What makes football great is that it's a free game. You can play any way you like. even if it means walking on your hands and kicking the ball with your head!!!

Nobody can call it Anti-Calcio....it's more like "anit-their definition of soccer" ....and that's just utter ignorance.

i myself prefer attacking football and want the italian game to change, but i dont see any harm in using "Catenaccio" a few games when you need to. IMO, it should only be another strategy in the strategy book to be used for a rainy day!
Yep that's true!
Till the catenaccio will work it means they didn't find a better way to contrast it! They can say "we do not like it" but they can't attak like this till they loose with their "attatticve football".
Anycase is sure that ouers match are more a suffering than an entrateinment :D


++ [ originally posted by nina ] ++
Do you have the report that goes with this photo in spanish? I would really like to read it.

I saw so many spanish articles attakking us and having fun about us... they even translated many of them in the italian newspapers.
I took this particolar picture in http://www.as.com/ website but I guess you have to look 4 it a bit cause is not on the "portada" anymore...
 

dpforever

Prediction Game Champ 2003 & 2005
Jan 12, 2002
3,794
#5
The Spanish are just sore losers .. there is no such thing as Catenaccio nowadays .. I mean it's not Juve's style to keep defending that way .. our midfield is rather offensive, with the Nedved-Camoranesi combination supporting Del Piero & Di Vaio ..


What happened was just natural .. I mean if it was Arsenal playing agaisnt Barca under the same situation (tied at 1-1, playing at the Nou Camp with one man down) then I think they would have reacted the same way we did ..


As for Inter, we all know they play boring football .. that's not news .. but in football it is goals that counts and since Inter scored more than Valencia (bearing the away goal weight) then they deserve to qualify over Valencia ..


By the way, this reminds me of Italy in Euro 2000 :D
 

Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
#6
I'm so sick and tired of this discussion...

Isn't defence a part of football?

If you have the lead, you don't attack as much, especially when it's as important as the Champions League. Every team does it! Real did tonight... maybe not as Inter, but still...

Juve were forced to play it safe. Davids was sent off, what the hell do they expect???

Another thing. Italians are good in defence (probably some of the best) Shouldn't a team use it, if they are good at it??? I would certainly!

As for Benitez... what an idiot!
I thought he would have taken it like a man, but no... he had to be childish and make stupid remarks.

The spanish can make all these remarks, but they are all just bad excuses. They just wont accept that Italian football is stronger than Spanish football at the time.

Football is about scoring goals. Valencia and Barca had their fair share of chances, but didn't take advantage of them... they should be blaming them selves (like thats gonna happen)
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#7
Just because we are all fans of Italian football does not mean that the way Italians go about playing the game is not crap becos it is

Juventus defended for most part of the match against Barcelona not just when we went down to 10 men as we did in the first leg, yes we got away with it but thats not entertainment

Inter were awful against Valencia and should have gone out if that silly ref Kim(I am too good for myself) nielsen did the right thing and gave Valencia a penalty which would have put them 3-1 up
2 shots at goal in the whole match is diabolical

It might be sour grapes from the Spanish media but if everyone decided to sit back and hope they nick a goal in every game they play then most of us will be looking for another sport to watch

the Nt does the same thing and thankfully they are not sucessful as it will make the whole world start playing that way

Italians have a strong defence, please thats a fallacy as it was more good luck and bad finishing by the Spanish sides that put them through

Yes defending is part of football but please they have enuff talent to attack and please its just one season to know if Italian teams are back to their very best, I for one do not think so as I am not convinced about the quality of Inter and to a lesser extent juventus and even Milan is now looking shaky

You look at Real madrid and Valencia and u think they can win it with their quality but you look at Inter or Juve and you feel they have to be lucky to win it .

Nothing wrong with catennaccio but the way its been played now is definitely ugly , it was a thing of beauty in 82 wc when Italy used it well .

How u wanna counter attack against Azerbaijan and Wales is beyond me
 

Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
#8
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Inter were awful against Valencia and should have gone out if that silly ref Kim(I am too good for myself) nielsen did the right thing and gave Valencia a penalty which would have put them 3-1 up
2 shots at goal in the whole match is diabolical
I do not agree with you, but at least on this part you are right. Kim Milton is a crappy ref. I still can't believe how he has gotten this good reputation as one of best refs around.
The man never sees the most obvious penaltys. It's like his trademark not to whistle... He does it all the time in the danish league... I hate that *******
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,859
#9
I feel I'm too biased towards the Serie A to be objective about this, I was very pleased to see the Italian teams make it. But I agree it's not for entertainment, it's destructive and unattractive.
 

Jules

Junior Member
Apr 14, 2003
103
#10
We fans want winners. That's the bottom line. Until winning stops being an objective of sport, then sometimes tactics take over and the game isn't perfect.

I criticize the national team for their boring play all the time, but I can't say the same about Juve or Milan (mostly) this season. It wasn't terrible and we deserve to be there.

Spain can say whatever it wants. It doesn't change the fact that they lost. In numbers. To Italian squads. Deal with it.
 
OP
OP
mate

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#11
The best option it will be to be succesful and to play attractive football as well, but unfortunatly I do not see so many teams who make it (well Real is the best example to take) cause too often it happen that the team who close in defence than find some space and kill the one who is attakking with a single "contropiede" action.
Anycase the spanish teams like Karlberg said "had their fair share of chances, but didn't take advantage of them... they should be blaming them selves" but I understand their disappointment to see some boring matches like what Juve and Inter offered...
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#13
some of you need to look for a new league to watch :rolleyes:

why do you want the whole world to play the same type of football!!?! :groan:

BTW, Juve dont play "Catenaccio" or a style half as defensive as the NT months ago.
 

Dragon

Senior Member
Apr 24, 2003
27,407
#14
the spanish are just sore losers they cant stand that italy is rising again but in those italian teams i see juve as the strongest because milan started very good but theyre kinda asleep right now and inter i havent watched them a lot but theyre boring i dont think theyre at their very best i hope they keep up better work and if they do that will bring an italian team to the CL cup
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,767
#15
I dont blame juve at all.
Of course i was hoping juve defeating barza with a lot of goals and attracttive football, but for the situation that was stablished at the nou camp, with a barca that was controlling the midifeld, trying to score a goal and send the team to attack could have finished in a suicide.

BUt overall, i prefer good football,attacking football, defense is not bad at all, but if they win, and achieve their goals with catenacio,what we can do?.
Everyone have his style, and if the spaniards want to eliminate the cattenancio, they must kill the problem themselves, and prove that the spanish football is the best.
If the catenaccio continue giving resuts to the italians, this will never ends.

I dont think that catennacio is bad, in other hand, could be very useful used in emergencys, like the one at barcelona, cuz juve after the davidz sent off, was totally defeated in the midfield, without any wepons to attack. BUt use cattenacio in all the games is very anoyying, especially when you have players that can kill the game themselves, without be reliying on a counter attack.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,767
#16
I was reading this today,, this article is fomr espn(latin america) and talks about this. ill translate it to english.
-------------------------------------------



"Italy gained the battle over Spain"

"catenaccio", the old model of the Italian soccer based on the stubborn defense, has returned to show its effectiveness in Europe, with the access to the semifinals of the Champiosn League de Inter and Juventus.

ROME -- "catenaccio", the old model of the Italian soccer based on the stubborn defense, has returned to show its effectiveness in Europe, with the access to the semifinals of the Champions League of Inter and Juventus, in contrast of Valencia and Barcelona, respectively.

That style never went away, but now it returns with force, the "chain", one of the main contributions from Italy to world-wide soccer, with the shame of some of the great offensive players whom that country(italy) has given, from Sandro Mazzola to Christian Vieri and Alex of the Piero, happening through names like Gianni Creek, Antonello Riva, Paolo Rossi or Roberto Baggio.

The Italian power in several stages of the history of soccer has been based on the strong defense, with some honorable exceptions, like the Milan of Arrigo Sacchi that, without neglecting the goal, made enjoy with players like Gullit, Van Basten or Riijkard, that yes, all foreigners.

In the last years the model seemed to have entered in crisis and from Italy it was watched with envies, never admitted openly, to other countries, like France, Germany or England and specially, at level of club, the Spanish Mediterranean neighbors.

It has been specially Spain´s model more appreciated, thanks to the game of clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Deportivo la Corunna or even the Celta, that three years ago endorsed a 4-0 to the Juventus headed then by Zidane (now in madrid).

It envies it was not only by the results, but also by the game, that it has attracted the Spanish championship to numerous foreign figures, eager of one better consideration, not only monetary.

With this atmosphere the Italians have brooded several years their misfortune and some heterodox ones proclaimed that the moment had arrived for changing, although at the time of the truth all have stayed faithful to the system, headed by the national selector, Giovanni Trapattoni, that does not remember the last time that its equipment was able to mark three goals.

The acces of three Italian teams to the quarterfinals of the Champions League was already sight like a success for a country that in the last years has been shipwrecked in this competition, but it happens to the penultimate round of two of them, confirmed for Juventus and probable Inter and for Milan, is an historical goal.

"Dedicated to the teachers of the good game", it says a commentary today in "Corriere della sera" in answer to the Italian successes from the front to Valencia and Barcelona, in special after the hard critics that from Spain became to Juventus and Inter by the uglyness of their game in the away game.

Protected by keepers of high level - like Toldo and Buffon- and anchored in old defensive concepts that they interpret like anybody, the Italians return to demonstrate their power with "catenaccio" and, if Manchester or Real Madrid does not remedy it, they threaten giving back the European soccer to the darknesses of the boring and miserable game from the point of view of the spectacle.
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,767
#17
Very interesting article right?.

But is clear that it was written by an irritatated "spanish team" supporter!.

But read it carefully, is very interesting.
 

bubba

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2003
177
#18
++ [ originally posted by mate ] ++
It's time that all the international press is attakking Italian soccer (both NT and teams) to play not in an attractive way...
After Juventus and Inter won vs Barca and Valencia and went on in the CL, the spanish press arrived to call ouers soccer "the antisoccer".
sore losers ;).....i think inter plays very very inattractive football, but any side under Cuper will..but i dont think Juve played any Anti-soccer..for much of the match when we still had 11 men on, we created chances, got corners and had some pretty decent possesion aswell..Football is not only attacking, but also defending aswell, like it or not....and i dont think any1 can blame a team when down to 10 men to play like Juve played...i've even seen this kinda gamestyle in the La Liga

++ [ originally posted by mate ] ++

It's pissing :( cause I'm sure that if they will win they will speak differently even if it was not dominating, but I can't desagree so mutch... Juve games are too often boring, and even if we win all that you remember is the soffering not the good gestures... and that's not entrateining at all :down:
juve is boring, even in Serie A, they've hardly played gr8 entertaining football under Lippi(from what i've seen)..But Juve does this almost on purpose i think, it's part of the tactics..anyway we hardly have the attacking talent & flair that Real, ManUtd or Valencia have to play like they do...so we play catenaccio
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,767
#19
I dont think that playing that style is part of the tactics, is because our players dont know that "magik" style of playing , so..
 

bubba

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2003
177
#20
we lost our 'magik' when zidane went to Real..

but you can win a match in many ways, u dont exactly need that magik to win matches all the time...Real Madrid wins matches playing slick entertaining passing football, but they r beatable as well...i think Juve covers up for it's lack of creativity with a lot of heart and fighting spirit..
 

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