Andrea Pirlo (35 Viewers)

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AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
29,686
It is not something solid that can be explained clearly, but there is definitely something terribly wrong with Calcio mentality.

Notice I didnt say Italian, but Calcio - this includes the Simeones and yes, Zidanes of the world.
At the end of the day, I would say that we have never had the best squad in Europe. Us reaching those finals was, in my opinion, us punching above our weight financially speaking. It's really that simple. You want to see consistent underachievement, you should look at Manchester City and PSG and whatever is wrong with them.
 

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Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,855
At the end of the day, I would say that we have never had the best squad in Europe. Us reaching those finals was, in my opinion, us punching above our weight financially speaking. It's really that simple. You want to see consistent underachievement, you should look at Manchester City and PSG and whatever is wrong with them.
What hurts is that historically we choked when did have the best squads, I feel that really traumatized us as a club.

Anywho fino alla fine!
 

Juventinoo

Ertuğrul Oğlu Osman
Oct 20, 2004
3,648
It is not something solid that can be explained clearly, but there is definitely something terribly wrong with Calcio mentality.

Notice I didnt say Italian, but Calcio - this includes the Simeones and yes, Zidanes of the world.
Maybe this....but am asking myself many times ....

a huge club like Juve with all the millions thrown ...yet we have problem having at least 70 minutes of good football movements ....is just mind blowing!!

whatever a coach we have , we still have the same problem of moving the ball as it should ...why ?? am even wonder how am dragged to support our Juve :lol:

I could show u Arab coaching a team with 10% of our budget instilling beautiful movements with few dummies !!

we dont need fucking Barca style ...just PLAY FOOTBALL !!:lol:
 

duranfj

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
8,767
https://theathletic.com/2462455/202...o-wonder-theres-only-one-team-left-in-europe/

Serie A is its own worst enemy. No wonder there’s only one team left in Europe

The absence of any Serie A teams in the Champions League quarter-finals has reopened the debate about the state of Italian football. Milan’s exit from the Europa League means Roma are the last Italian team standing in Europe.

Arms crossed leaning back on his stool, Fabio Capello reclined in the Sky Italia studio but was not restrained in his opinions. Once again he posited that Italian sides play too slow, lack intensity and too often games in Serie A are broken up by referees who are quick on the whistle and call a foul for even the slightest contact.

Alessandro “Billy” Costacurta argued it was a question of resources. Serie A just isn’t as wealthy as it was in his day and other clubs around the continent are spending better.

The journalist Paolo Condo, meanwhile, highlighted the absence in Italian teams of young cores steeped in the values of the club, which are often what underpin all great sides from Ajax under Rinus Michels and Milan under Sacchi to Barcelona under Pep Guardiola.

But as Leo Tolstoy wrote in Anna Karenina, happy families are all alike. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way and each Italian side went out for entirely different reasons that aren’t necessarily related to the state of the league. Lazio, for instance, hadn’t been in the Champions League for 13 years and reached the knockout stages, despite extreme and controversial COVID cases, for the first time in two decades. Elimination at the hands of world champions Bayern Munich was to be expected even if the manner of the first-leg defeat was embarrassing.

EuropeQuarter-finals_Table-1.png

Italy trail Spain, England and Germany in Europe in recent seasons

As for Atalanta, expectations were high after last season and, to be honest, they didn’t disappoint, recording more points in the group stage than a year ago and winning at Anfield and in Amsterdam. Ideas can trump talent but, as with Lazio, you’re asking a lot of two teams outside of Deloitte’s top 30 richest clubs to overcome two of the wealthiest sides on the continent. Lest we forget, Atalanta’s wage bill is still in the bottom half of Serie A and it’s frankly a miracle they finish in the top four let alone the knockout stages of the Champions League.

As Paolo Maldini pointed out before the tie with Manchester United, the gap in revenue between them and Milan — 30th on Deloitte’s list behind even Sheffield United — is more than €400 million, not that it showed on the pitch as Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s side only edged through against depleted opponents.

Apart from Porto and Borussia Dortmund, all the teams through to the final eight of the Champions League have higher turnovers than their Italian counterparts unless player trading is included as a revenue stream. The fact Serie A sides are so dependent on the buying and selling of players to make extra cash is indicative of how difficult it is for teams to have the structural stability necessary to be competitive.

For too long whoever was president of the league has chosen to get lost in internal politics rather than commit to the job of growing the business in the way Richard Scudamore did for the Premier League, and Christian Seifert and Javier Tebas have done for the Bundesliga and La Liga respectively. Even today, Serie A can’t agree on anything, whether it’s the next TV rights tender or the sale of a stake in an entertainment company to a private equity consortium for €1.7 billion. The league is its own worst enemy and its inability to reform itself is perhaps one of the reasons why Andrea Agnelli dedicates so much time to Europe instead.

Meanwhile, grounds continue to fall into disrepair and without privately-owned stadia, there’s only so much money that can be ploughed back into teams under Financial Fair Play regulations. This is where Serie A has really been left behind.

While Atalanta and Lazio actually deserve credit for punching above their weight, the same cannot be said of Juventus and Inter, who are judged by a higher standard. An element of that is obviously history and tradition. But there’s also the recent memory of Juventus, 10th in the money league, coming close to the treble in 2015 and 2017 and Inter reaching last year’s Europa League final too.

Neither expect your sympathy and while Juventus won at the Nou Camp in December, it is concerning that favourable draws against Lyon and Porto have not been capitalised on. With regard to Inter, much will be made of Antonio Conte’s record in the Champions League but the advanced metrics tell you they were desperately unlucky this time around and came undone on account of a ridiculous number of missed chances as well as all those times Arturo Vidal and Nicolo Barella gave away penalties against Borussia Monchengladbach and Real Madrid respectively.

What’s odd is that Italian football is beginning to produce top players again. Not the level of the 1980s and 90s generation, sure. But the optimism around Roberto Mancini’s young Italy team is not misplaced. Barella provided one of the moments of the group stage with his volleyed backheel assist against Real Madrid. Gianluigi Donnarumma pulled off one fabulous save after another against Red Star and who was not impressed with Federico Chiesa in both legs of the Porto tie?

“It’s not tactical” was Esteban Cambiasso’s analysis of Serie A’s woes in Europe this year. Conte for instance has won the Premier League and so too has Claudio Ranieri, Carlo Ancelotti and Roberto Mancini. Ideas applied in Italy work in England and there’s no doubt Serie A remains a fascinating laboratory of new ideas. But overall it has stayed risk-averse, insular and culturally resistant. It’s enough to recall the ferocity of the pushback to the notion of Ralf Rangnick working in Italy a year ago. Aside from Paulo Fonseca, even the foreign coaches are Italian. Ivan Juric and Sinisa Mihajlovic played so long here that the bel paese is home to them and they are products of the system.

With few exceptions, the same sporting directors move from club to club, appoint a coach they’ve worked with in the past and then sign some players they’ve worked with before. It’s musical chairs and up-tempo it ain’t. It’s complacent, set in its ways and seemingly unwilling or unable to welcome change. Cambiasso believes Italy’s recent difficulties are rooted in culture and mentality.

“I think there are limits tied to history,” he argued on Sky Italia. “Winning helps you, it makes you happy, but it can hold you back too. Watching all the leagues and listening to what people say about them because I’ve travelled a bit and know what journalists are writing here and there, we’ve got limits and I say ‘we’ because in Argentina we’ve got more or less the same problems as in Italy because when people tell us to change our response is always: ‘Yeah but we’ve won however many World Cups’. Spain changed because they’d never won before and the changes they made led to Barcelona winning and Spain winning World Cups…”

“If you want to start over you need to forget the victories and focus on what’s to come,” Cambiasso concluded. “The past is the past and you should never disown it. But if you only look back you won’t go forwards.” Only that way will Serie A stop going in reverse.

as horncastle says, italian coaches' ideas seem to work in england, so those ideas mustn't be fundamentally wrong. italian coaches aren't bad at all. also, gasp is doing miracles on a very tight budget, and - this is the reason why i quoted your post - he's not relying on italians at all. (his only regular italian players are his goalies.) depending on the results of this and next seasons, and especially if we lose both scudetti, i'd also entertain the idea of bringing gasp home. he's a proven squad builder, he fired papu like a dog on the first sign of putting himself above the group, he obviously understands what juventus is about, and in case we don't win this and the next league title, bringing someone as characteristic as gasp can't be worse than 2 years of not winning.

overall i wouldn't mind having international coaches. (i would have preferred pochettino before maurice was hired.) since i've been following juventus, deschamps was our only non-italian coach, and since our squad is more international and less italian than ever, we should be more open towards foreign coaches too. but since gasp has non-italian ideas about build-up, speed and pressing, he's one of the very few italian coaches i'd be happy to take, even if it would take him a season or two to fully implement his ideas.

on a sidenote, it's a bit funny when guys in the cl thread are bashing atalanta and gasp for their small club mentality. even if gasp made some errors with his selection, they are the definition of a small club and they played real madrid in the champions league ffs. a couple of months before that, they won at anfield, and that would have NEVER happened without gasperini. so there's that too.

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saving this guy's juve career would be some achievement by pirlo. not sure if i mean it as a compliment though. :shifty:
FIGC has 50% of its time thinking about how to fuck Juve and the remaining 50% in how to maintain the power forever
 

Mr Chocolate

Rubba Band Business
Dec 23, 2012
6,676
People wanting Gasperini :lol:
he is not a big club manager, the guys a nut case, he'd lose the lockeroom instantly, a club like atalanta is perfect for him, hes done excellently but thats his ceiling.

Our biggest mistake in regards to sacking Max was that we seemed to do it for the sake of it, I don't think we had a plan in place at all, we got in a second rate manager, gave him a ill-fitting squad, and didn't back him, if we sacked Max for a Zidane/Carlo/Reputable manager, even one of the trendy Germans going around then fair enough, and if we hire a manager like Sarri at least back him in the market, he isn't the type to piece together a squad with random bits and bobs (but oh hey, max is).

There just seems to be a disconnect with the transfers and the managers, I'm sure Allegri wanted better midfielders than some of the "players" that we bought in, in the long run i think this hurts us with wanting a world class manager, they'd want a say in transfers in sure. Now we have an awkwardly put together team (with some obvious bright spots), an inexperienced coach, and not much $$$
 

RoiLezard

LizardKing in black&white
Apr 7, 2018
1,897
I think we should stick with Pirlo. I’m not impressed with the results so far but the last couple of seasons have been hard due to many factors. At this point, I’ve lost trust in our board and replacing the coach won’t bring any of that back.

I’d say we give Pirlo another season, let him have more say in the coming mercato and try to balance the team as much as feasible. Long term projects take time to shape and we won’t attain any results if we continue switching coaches every year.

The only change I would be happy with will be in terms of management. Something is deeply wrong with the way we operate in the mercato, something’s got to give.


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JuveE46

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,595
It is not something solid that can be explained clearly, but there is definitely something terribly wrong with Calcio mentality.

Notice I didnt say Italian, but Calcio - this includes the Simeones and yes, Zidanes of the world.
It is not something solid that can be explained clearly.. now THAT is some air tight argument there.
yes it's a supernatural defect zidane has that can not be explained by anyone except maybe by you, but I will try to list his "terribly wrong" achievements from Zidanes sick depraved mind:

Took over in 2016, came back at 2019
This is his achievement, after having been madrid B coach for a year and half.

-La liga won 16/17 came back won again 19/20
-Supercopa 2017-2019/20
-CL 2016-2017-2018 historic record (won CL first year, and came in second in la liga by one point)
-Uefa supercup 16/17
-Fifacwc 16-17

Something terribly wrong clearly..in comparing zidane to simeone on any subject and also calling him calcio..:D
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,855
It is not something solid that can be explained clearly.. now THAT is some air tight argument there.
yes it's a supernatural defect zidane has that can not be explained by anyone except maybe by you, but I will try to list his "terribly wrong" achievements from Zidanes sick depraved mind:

Took over in 2016, came back at 2019
This is his achievement, after having been madrid B coach for a year and half.

-La liga won 16/17 came back won again 19/20
-Supercopa 2017-2019/20
-CL 2016-2017-2018 historic record (won CL first year, and came in second in la liga by one point)
-Uefa supercup 16/17
-Fifacwc 16-17

Something terribly wrong clearly..in comparing zidane to simeone on any subject and also calling him calcio..:D
You do know that Real fans want him out because his team is playing like shit, right?

Btw Mourinho won a lot too, doesnt change the fact that his football is outdated.
 

JuveE46

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,595
You do know that Real fans want him out because his team is playing like shit, right?

Btw Mourinho won a lot too, doesnt change the fact that his football is outdated.
You comparing zizou to once got lucky park the bus mourinho?
Real fans won so much they have no fingers left for more rings, they wana win every la liga and CL, thier expectation does not change reality one bit and the reality is they lost CR7 and got shit to replace the GOAT with and are still competitive and might win yet another CL this year.

what-if-i-told-you-you-are-entitled-to-your-own-opinion-but-not-your-own-facts.jpg
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,855
You comparing zizou to once got lucky park the bus mourinho?
Real fans won so much they have no fingers left for more rings, they wana win every la liga and CL, thier expectation does not change reality one bit and the reality is they lost CR7 and got shit to replace the GOAT with and are still competitive and might win yet another CL this year.

what-if-i-told-you-you-are-entitled-to-your-own-opinion-but-not-your-own-facts.jpg
Real will end up with zero tituli.
 

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