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Rollie

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2008
5,143
Luck has regressed mentally - he no longer seems to trust his instinct and that is hurting his decision-making even more. Also, he tends to look for that big play leading to him holding onto the ball for too long, resulting in him being sacked or making a desperate throw under duress.
This being said, I doubt he is fully healthy but he does put a zip on that ball, so his shoulder is not as bad as you may expect.

Example - see Brees' ball and lack of power and spiral in his throw when he injured his shoulder vs Tampa earlier in this season. Luck's situation doesn't seem anywhere near as bad. Again, doubt he is at 100% but imo he's suffering his lack of trust in his reads/instincts and the subsequent forcing of a throw a lot more than any ramifications of his shoulder injury.

This being said, even in all previous years Luck's been a turnover machine. With each subsequent year, they put more and more on his table - this is the natural process of a QB's development as he gets to use more and more of the playbook with each new year (usually, under ideal circumstances, it would take 3 full years before a QB is just let out there on his own with the full play-book at his disposal e.g. Rodgers under Favre). This is Luck's 4th year now, so it's not completely illogical to suggest that maybe he's reached a point where they are asking him to bite a bit more than he can chew resulting in an actual regression of his play ... contrary to what one would expect i.e. the longer he plays in th NFL, the better he becomes.

I know about the lack of OL and RB-help excuses but those work only if you were to compare say Wilson and Luck, not in general. Brady, Rodgers have had subpar OLines, lacked running game or elite Ds quite often over the years but they still figure out a way around it.
Also, look at Hasselbeck earlier this year - same OL-ine, same supporting cast, yet no boneheaded ints/turnovers and virtually sack free thru 2 full games.

Those knuckleheads in the Indy front office are certainly not helping Luck's development but at the same time one has to wonder if he hasn't hit a brick wall in his progress towards becoming an elite NFL QB due to his own limitations.
This is a bit too complex a narrative for me, buddy. I really don't think he's hit some plateau/brick wall based upon some sort of definitive limitations. I think it's more-so just circumstances, a slump, and injury.

Mental regression is hard to gauge, especially when he's only played 2 healthy games this season. He certainly came into this season focused on limiting his turnovers, it was the feature of every offseason interview I saw with him, and maybe between that and all of the MVP talk, he developed a bit of a mind fuck slump early on -- and then he got hurt.

Not sure that a bruised rotator cuff is worse than a subluxation. Brees arm is definitely not as strong as Luck's at this point, in general, but I don't know about the rest of that TB scenario because I didn't watch that game, or see much of the Saints early on.

I don't agree with Luck putting his typical zip on the ball, though. He's the QB of my fantasy team, I've been watching Indy play more than my own team, and his passes are definitely sailing more than usual; he's not driving the ball the same.

You could say that maybe he's not trusting his instincts or reads enough right now, that definitely seems true, but it's probably for multiple reasons -- including carrying an injury, which does create some doubt. You're right, he's holding the ball too long, and trying to make every play a big play, but I don't think it's all on him.

The point I feel is more important, is that Luck and his OC need to be more judicious/conservative in their decision making/play calling, and settling for/calling more underneath and intermediate routes, so that he can get the ball out quicker, not force as much downfield, not take the big hits. Pep made those specific adjustments in his play calling for Hasselbeck (more quick timing routes, shorter plays in general), because he obviously doesn't have the arm strength at age 40 -- which is a big part of why the ball was getting out quicker, and he didn't end up getting hit as much as Luck has been. He also made better decisions than Luck has shown, but decision making isn't the backup's weakness at this point. Arm talent is.

As for the OL and RB excuses I was talking about, of course those are factors that can significantly impact the performance of a younger QB who's breaking into the league (first 2-3 years) -- and Luck played quite well despite those excuses, given the total situation in Indy. Rodgers wasn't playing during those years, so not much of a comparable to be made, just different. This year, Luck actually has decent RBs... although his OLine still blows :D

Anyway, I really doubt that he's going to endure a sustained, legitimate regression because they've giving him more responsibilities. He's a very bright dude, and that seems quite a premature assessment. I think it's much more likely he's in a slump, he's been hurt, and now he's feeling the pressure because things haven't gone smoothly. He'll bounce back, IMO, the question is whether or not it happens this season.
 

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Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
The Memphis QB. First saw him last year and was impressed by the raw potential. This year he's really improved his TD:INT ratio. He's rising fast and no longer an under the radar talent. Expectations now he may even be 1st QB off the board come draft time.
:tup:

It'd be pretty funny if the top 2 QBs taken were Wentz from North Dakota State and this guy from Memphis... :lol:

I'm going to guess either Houston or Cleveland goes for the first QB in the draft. They'll likely be the first teams to pick that really need a QB, and seeing as there's no "can't miss" type of QB talent in the draft, or so it seems, none of the other teams around them at the bottom of the NFL look likely to go for a QB. I suppose if the 49ers collapse completely and decide to boot Kaep, they could be a team, but I doubt that happens.
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,722
This is a bit too complex a narrative for me, buddy. I really don't think he's hit some plateau/brick wall based upon some sort of definitive limitations. I think it's more-so just circumstances, a slump, and injury.

Mental regression is hard to gauge, especially when he's only played 2 healthy games this season. He certainly came into this season focused on limiting his turnovers, it was the feature of every offseason interview I saw with him, and maybe between that and all of the MVP talk, he developed a bit of a mind fuck slump early on -- and then he got hurt.

Not sure that a bruised rotator cuff is worse than a subluxation. Brees arm is definitely not as strong as Luck's at this point, in general, but I don't know about the rest of that TB scenario because I didn't watch that game, or see much of the Saints early on.

I don't agree with Luck putting his typical zip on the ball, though. He's the QB of my fantasy team, I've been watching Indy play more than my own team, and his passes are definitely sailing more than usual; he's not driving the ball the same.

You could say that maybe he's not trusting his instincts or reads enough right now, that definitely seems true, but it's probably for multiple reasons -- including carrying an injury, which does create some doubt. You're right, he's holding the ball too long, and trying to make every play a big play, but I don't think it's all on him.

The point I feel is more important, is that Luck and his OC need to be more judicious/conservative in their decision making/play calling, and settling for/calling more underneath and intermediate routes, so that he can get the ball out quicker, not force as much downfield, not take the big hits. Pep made those specific adjustments in his play calling for Hasselbeck (more quick timing routes, shorter plays in general), because he obviously doesn't have the arm strength at age 40 -- which is a big part of why the ball was getting out quicker, and he didn't end up getting hit as much as Luck has been. He also made better decisions than Luck has shown, but decision making isn't the backup's weakness at this point. Arm talent is.

As for the OL and RB excuses I was talking about, of course those are factors that can significantly impact the performance of a younger QB who's breaking into the league (first 2-3 years) -- and Luck played quite well despite those excuses, given the total situation in Indy. Rodgers wasn't playing during those years, so not much of a comparable to be made, just different. This year, Luck actually has decent RBs... although his OLine still blows :D

Anyway, I really doubt that he's going to endure a sustained, legitimate regression because they've giving him more responsibilities. He's a very bright dude, and that seems quite a premature assessment. I think it's much more likely he's in a slump, he's been hurt, and now he's feeling the pressure because things haven't gone smoothly. He'll bounce back, IMO, the question is whether or not it happens this season.
not saying that he's definitely regressed mentally - was just offering an alternative explanation for his poor form other than the obvious theories (playing injured, bad OL, etc, etc)

The train of thought is basically this - as he's having to deal with a more complex array of play-calls, he's overthinking the whole process and needs more time to execute, while at the same time losing confidence in what he's seeing on the field. Holding onto the ball longer allows the opposing DL to collapse the pocket. The wall of players in front of Luck get tall pretty fast, so he's forced to throw the ball a bit higher, off of it's ideal trajectory i.e. why his throws are sailing (which I have also noticed).

He is an intelligent dude but that doesn't always translate to keeping your cool on the field, under pressure so that his play-book/classroom intelligence can fully apply to his decision-making in real-time action.
Even if that is indeed the case, it doesn't mean he won't get over it with time as he gets more and more comfy with applying the full range of the playbook.

Reason why I'd be worried that this maybe a flaw that's there to stay (i.e. he reached his ceiling in his 3rd year) - he's always had a knack for turnovers thruout his now 3 full seasons at the NFL. And while he showed signs of improvement in his 2nd season (a reason for that may well be that he was asked to throw the ball less that year), things really got out of control in his 3rd and have gotten even worse in his 4th.

Then again, it could be just that he's playing hurt but it would be really stupid of the Colts to let him out there if he's really hurt to such an extent. Let's face it - in the AFC South, even a 6-10/7-9 record gets you in the play-offs as a division winner.

As for the Brees example, I am aware that those were different injuries. What I meant was that I saw what a great effect it had on Brees' throwing technique and ball velocity in the same game he got injured. Brees was back the next game, iirc. Luck, from what I have seen and I saw his first game after coming back vs the Pats, he wasn't exhibiting anywhere near the adverse effects that Brees showed after he sustained his injury. Again, not saying Luck was or is 100% but doesn't seem hurt to the point where one could attribute his poor play to still feeling said injury. A mental collapse, for one reason or another, is the more plausible explanation, me thinks.

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:tup:

It'd be pretty funny if the top 2 QBs taken were Wentz from North Dakota State and this guy from Memphis... :lol:

I'm going to guess either Houston or Cleveland goes for the first QB in the draft. They'll likely be the first teams to pick that really need a QB, and seeing as there's no "can't miss" type of QB talent in the draft, or so it seems, none of the other teams around them at the bottom of the NFL look likely to go for a QB. I suppose if the 49ers collapse completely and decide to boot Kaep, they could be a team, but I doubt that happens.
well, you never know with QBs as the way teams make their projections (intangibles like character, leadership, blah, blah) often have little to do with playing for a big school. And don't think this year there is such a separation between a top 1-2 prospects and then everyone else. I'd say this year there is a group of 4-5 guys each of whom could end up being the top QB pick, depending on the pre-draft process.

This being said, I think a lot of teams could end up going for a QB in the top 15 out of sheer desperation, if nothing else. Of the teams that seem to project to pick there, I'd say only Baltimore, Tampa, Tennessee and potentially Miami are set at the position. Even less obvious teams like Dallas and Detroit could go hunting for their QB of the future as Romo's getting old (and constantly hurt underlining the need for at least a quality back-up), Detroit may well be looking to let go of Stafford in the next couple of years (huge contract for a player that's never really panned out).
Drafting a successor now, would make sense for such teams as it would allow those prospects more time to grow in the shadow of the incumbent starter (e.g. Rodgers). And players like Paxton Lynch and Goff do come from spread offenses, so they'd likely need the time to get used to pro-style offenses anyway.

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To the good peoples of Tuzmania:

That Danish sack of shit, the commish, aka Volleyball, is trying to trade away Carlos Hyde, who may well need season-ending surgery. So, buyer beware - don't let that ass-hat take advantage of you, guys.
 

Völler

Always spot on
May 6, 2012
23,091
That Danish sack of shit, the commish, aka Volleyball, is trying to trade away Carlos Hyde, who may well need season-ending surgery. So, buyer beware - don't let that ass-hat take advantage of you, guys.
Shut up, you intolerable piece of shit. I offered the deals before any news of a possible surgery was announced.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,932
not saying that he's definitely regressed mentally - was just offering an alternative explanation for his poor form other than the obvious theories (playing injured, bad OL, etc, etc)

The train of thought is basically this - as he's having to deal with a more complex array of play-calls, he's overthinking the whole process and needs more time to execute, while at the same time losing confidence in what he's seeing on the field. Holding onto the ball longer allows the opposing DL to collapse the pocket. The wall of players in front of Luck get tall pretty fast, so he's forced to throw the ball a bit higher, off of it's ideal trajectory i.e. why his throws are sailing (which I have also noticed).

He is an intelligent dude but that doesn't always translate to keeping your cool on the field, under pressure so that his play-book/classroom intelligence can fully apply to his decision-making in real-time action.
Even if that is indeed the case, it doesn't mean he won't get over it with time as he gets more and more comfy with applying the full range of the playbook.

Reason why I'd be worried that this maybe a flaw that's there to stay (i.e. he reached his ceiling in his 3rd year) - he's always had a knack for turnovers thruout his now 3 full seasons at the NFL. And while he showed signs of improvement in his 2nd season (a reason for that may well be that he was asked to throw the ball less that year), things really got out of control in his 3rd and have gotten even worse in his 4th.

Then again, it could be just that he's playing hurt but it would be really stupid of the Colts to let him out there if he's really hurt to such an extent. Let's face it - in the AFC South, even a 6-10/7-9 record gets you in the play-offs as a division winner.

As for the Brees example, I am aware that those were different injuries. What I meant was that I saw what a great effect it had on Brees' throwing technique and ball velocity in the same game he got injured. Brees was back the next game, iirc. Luck, from what I have seen and I saw his first game after coming back vs the Pats, he wasn't exhibiting anywhere near the adverse effects that Brees showed after he sustained his injury. Again, not saying Luck was or is 100% but doesn't seem hurt to the point where one could attribute his poor play to still feeling said injury. A mental collapse, for one reason or another, is the more plausible explanation, me thinks.

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well, you never know with QBs as the way teams make their projections (intangibles like character, leadership, blah, blah) often have little to do with playing for a big school. And don't think this year there is such a separation between a top 1-2 prospects and then everyone else. I'd say this year there is a group of 4-5 guys each of whom could end up being the top QB pick, depending on the pre-draft process.

This being said, I think a lot of teams could end up going for a QB in the top 15 out of sheer desperation, if nothing else. Of the teams that seem to project to pick there, I'd say only Baltimore, Tampa, Tennessee and potentially Miami are set at the position. Even less obvious teams like Dallas and Detroit could go hunting for their QB of the future as Romo's getting old (and constantly hurt underlining the need for at least a quality back-up), Detroit may well be looking to let go of Stafford in the next couple of years (huge contract for a player that's never really panned out).
Drafting a successor now, would make sense for such teams as it would allow those prospects more time to grow in the shadow of the incumbent starter (e.g. Rodgers). And players like Paxton Lynch and Goff do come from spread offenses, so they'd likely need the time to get used to pro-style offenses anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

To the good peoples of Tuzmania:

That Danish sack of shit, the commish, aka Volleyball, is trying to trade away Carlos Hyde, who may well need season-ending surgery. So, buyer beware - don't let that ass-hat take advantage of you, guys.
:lol:
 

.zero

★ ★ ★
Aug 8, 2006
83,206
Outside of Brady there are only 2 other QBs in the last 15 years to win more than one SB

Before we anoint Rodgers for greatness let's just wait until he catches up to Eli and Ben
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,559
Outside of Brady there are only 2 other QBs in the last 15 years to win more than one SB

Before we anoint Rodgers for greatness let's just wait until he catches up to Eli and Ben
:rofl:


ahhh i needed that, haven't laughed that hard in a while
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
Bell carted off with a knee injury. Looks unable to put weight on it.

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Gurley is going beast mode on the NFL. On pace to break 100 yards for the 4th straight game to start his NFL career as a starting RB.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
:lol:

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Gurley has broken the NFL record for most rushing yards in the first 4 starts. 558 yard in 4 games. And all this coming back from a torn ACL last November at Georgia. :delpiero:

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Insane game happening in New Orleans right now. Just wild. And to think that a catch and then fumble returned for a TD may be the difference in this game with 2 QBs with 6 TD passes each for only the 2nd time in NFL history.

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Giants :sergio:

Get the ball back with 36 seconds left and go 3 and out only taking 16 seconds off the clock and giving New Orleans the ball back to go for the win. Then facemask on the punt return to put New Orleans in field goal range. :lol:
 

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