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not really, I feel very comfy watching Tommy take the entire NFL from behind 
did you see last night with the Pats up 29-7 and 7-8 min left in the game how angry he got for getting sacked (scored another TD on the very next play, btw). Now that is why other teams should be scared - Tommy is on a mission this year and unlike 2007, this year it's personal
did you see last night with the Pats up 29-7 and 7-8 min left in the game how angry he got for getting sacked (scored another TD on the very next play, btw). Now that is why other teams should be scared - Tommy is on a mission this year and unlike 2007, this year it's personal
What a mouth-breathing moron.
The point is that Brady and Montana are the two best QBs of the modern era. Obviously. But Rodgers has had the best statistical start to an NFL career by far. He has won a Super Bowl already, playing 4 road games to do so, and is as likely as anyone to win 1-2 more. Stop saying I said he's already in the conversation. I said he will be if he continues his career at this level and wins another super bowl or 2. Very big difference.
The point is also that Brady has won 1 Super Bowl and is 7-5 in the playoffs since Rodgers came into the league. Including being on the losing end of some of the most ridiculous choke jobs in NFL history. There hasn't been an NFL dynasty since the 01-04 Pats, parity is at an all time high, with 8 different super bowl winners in 10 years since the rule changes in 05.
The one being a homer is obviously you, as you can't comprehend how blindingly stupid it sounds to call Rodgers overrated and average when he leads the NFL in almost every single passer category over the last 5 years both in regular season and postseason.
By the way, Rodgers in his short 7 year career has thrown more 40+ yard TDs than any QB in NFL history. 16 of them. Best deep ball thrower of all time.
The point is that Brady and Montana are the two best QBs of the modern era. Obviously. But Rodgers has had the best statistical start to an NFL career by far. He has won a Super Bowl already, playing 4 road games to do so, and is as likely as anyone to win 1-2 more. Stop saying I said he's already in the conversation. I said he will be if he continues his career at this level and wins another super bowl or 2. Very big difference.
The point is also that Brady has won 1 Super Bowl and is 7-5 in the playoffs since Rodgers came into the league. Including being on the losing end of some of the most ridiculous choke jobs in NFL history. There hasn't been an NFL dynasty since the 01-04 Pats, parity is at an all time high, with 8 different super bowl winners in 10 years since the rule changes in 05.
The one being a homer is obviously you, as you can't comprehend how blindingly stupid it sounds to call Rodgers overrated and average when he leads the NFL in almost every single passer category over the last 5 years both in regular season and postseason.
By the way, Rodgers in his short 7 year career has thrown more 40+ yard TDs than any QB in NFL history. 16 of them. Best deep ball thrower of all time.
I had them pegged as an 8-8/7-9 team before the season. SO far, so good. They are deffinitely headed in the right direction but it's one thing to be good in a game or two, something very different to do with consistently over an entire season. Schedule isn't favorable, so it will test the team's resolve for sure. If you guys do end up 7-9 or 8-8, I'd say you will be out of the play-offs but will know you have a great foundation to build on next year. Getting to the play-offs requires team character, chemistry and locker-room mentality that takes time to build.
My best guess at this point is, it will take another year for the Raiders to seriously challenge for a play-off spot. If I have any reservations regarding the Raiders' ceiling, it's because of Del Rio - just not convinced he is the right man for the job.
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Payton is the stat king in the NFL and has done it for much longer, and to a higher level, than Rodgers has. We all know how that story unfolds when it comes to the postseason and SB wins. Rodgers right now is following in Peyton's footsteps (Peyton is 12-13 in postseason, iirc, while Rodgers 6-5) as a regular season stats king, only still way behind Peyton because to come anywhere near him, Rodgers will have to maintain his high level of play for close to another decade or so and that's easier said than done (to and extent, that goes for the Rodgers vs Favre comparison as well).
If you want to have a Rodgers-Favre or Rodgers-Peyton discussion, I am game. btw, such a discussion will still involve speculations as again, to be there A-rod will have to be as good for another 8-10 years. Just leave any comparisons with Brady/Montana out all this because you lose credibility every time you even put Rodgers in the same sentence with them. For the last tme - there is no comparison.
My best guess at this point is, it will take another year for the Raiders to seriously challenge for a play-off spot. If I have any reservations regarding the Raiders' ceiling, it's because of Del Rio - just not convinced he is the right man for the job.
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Payton is the stat king in the NFL and has done it for much longer, and to a higher level, than Rodgers has. We all know how that story unfolds when it comes to the postseason and SB wins. Rodgers right now is following in Peyton's footsteps (Peyton is 12-13 in postseason, iirc, while Rodgers 6-5) as a regular season stats king, only still way behind Peyton because to come anywhere near him, Rodgers will have to maintain his high level of play for close to another decade or so and that's easier said than done (to and extent, that goes for the Rodgers vs Favre comparison as well).
If you want to have a Rodgers-Favre or Rodgers-Peyton discussion, I am game. btw, such a discussion will still involve speculations as again, to be there A-rod will have to be as good for another 8-10 years. Just leave any comparisons with Brady/Montana out all this because you lose credibility every time you even put Rodgers in the same sentence with them. For the last tme - there is no comparison.
Do you not understand the difference between accumulating mass stats like overall passing yardage, TDs, etc. compared to things like TD-INT ratio, passer rating, QBR, TD%, Int%, YPA, etc.
Anyways. I'm sorry for being so vitriolic. It drives me crazy when people suggest Rodgers is overrated because of 1 super bowl win thus far, or being slightly less amazing on the road. No one has won more than 1 super bowl since he replaced Favre, suggesting very good parity in the league, as opposed to the 70s-the early 00s when their were just a few competing dynasties.
Regardless, Rodgers is clearly the only QB currently playing who has a chance of ending up at the Montana-Brady level. Super Bowls are really the only thing standing in his way in that regard. Will he get there? Who knows. But in my opinion, and it's just my opinion, he's a far better QB than Favre ever was, and it's just a matter of time before he passes Manning. He's just that much more efficient than Manning. His postseason record is also pretty damn good as he had one of the better playoff QB performances of all time in 2010 to win his superbowl with 4 road wins and great stats. Whereas Manning was absolute crap in the playoffs even the year Indy won the Super Bowl.
Rodgers needs 1 or 2 more 2010-like super bowl runs
Anyways. I'm sorry for being so vitriolic. It drives me crazy when people suggest Rodgers is overrated because of 1 super bowl win thus far, or being slightly less amazing on the road. No one has won more than 1 super bowl since he replaced Favre, suggesting very good parity in the league, as opposed to the 70s-the early 00s when their were just a few competing dynasties.
Regardless, Rodgers is clearly the only QB currently playing who has a chance of ending up at the Montana-Brady level. Super Bowls are really the only thing standing in his way in that regard. Will he get there? Who knows. But in my opinion, and it's just my opinion, he's a far better QB than Favre ever was, and it's just a matter of time before he passes Manning. He's just that much more efficient than Manning. His postseason record is also pretty damn good as he had one of the better playoff QB performances of all time in 2010 to win his superbowl with 4 road wins and great stats. Whereas Manning was absolute crap in the playoffs even the year Indy won the Super Bowl.
Rodgers needs 1 or 2 more 2010-like super bowl runs
Outside of Brady, yes - Rodgers is the only QB who's worth talking about in that talent level and at a relatively young-ish age (i.e. below late 30s). Maybe Luck also but he has the damnation of playing for a fucked up franchise like the Colts who are not headed anywhere with that garbage owner they have. Poor guy has regressed tremendously since last year and even before this current season his game was centered at racking up stats and not limiting turnovers, which is what you need to do in order to win the postseason.
Anyways, let me show you how the whole approach of cherry-picking which part of Brady's career you want to discard and which to keep and compare Rodgers with, is a failed attempt at a logical process:
Take Luck, for example. He entered the league in 2012. Since then he and A-rod have won 0 SBs each, have made it to 0 SBs each. Luck is 3-3 in postseason, Rodgers is 2-3. By your logic of "since 2008 Rodgers is at least as good if not better than Brady", Luck is a better QB than Rodgers. Do you agree? Obviously not.
Let me try this with Montana - take away his 4 SB-winning seasons and compare him with any scrub of QB who didn't win zip in that period ... I am sure you see where I am going with this..
P.S. Let me clarify something - Rodgers is a very, very talented QB. He is, imo, more talented than Brady and Montana. But so is Peyton and so was Marino too. Long story short, greatness at the QB position is not measured by arm talent alone of how curved your deep ball is or how tight that spiral is. It is measured by one's silverware and postseason endeavors i.e. by a player's heart, will, leadership, determination. And that, mate, is where Rodgers is never gonna get close to Brady and Montana.
An example - Look at Brady last night after that sack in the redzone, 7 min before the end of the game, Pats 29-7 up. He almost broke his hand pounding the ground from anger. Next play he scored a TD and then headbutts his receiver.
Rodgers, after a good play, he just has that all-is-good, I-am-perfect, you-are-nothing smirk beaming with arrogance. That is not the attitude that has made Brady who he is - always hungry, never content with success, always chasing perfection with ferocity. That is, Rodgers may be more talented than Brady but I just don't see him ever reaching that pantheon of greatness because he lacks the right mentality.
Anyways, let me show you how the whole approach of cherry-picking which part of Brady's career you want to discard and which to keep and compare Rodgers with, is a failed attempt at a logical process:
Take Luck, for example. He entered the league in 2012. Since then he and A-rod have won 0 SBs each, have made it to 0 SBs each. Luck is 3-3 in postseason, Rodgers is 2-3. By your logic of "since 2008 Rodgers is at least as good if not better than Brady", Luck is a better QB than Rodgers. Do you agree? Obviously not.
Let me try this with Montana - take away his 4 SB-winning seasons and compare him with any scrub of QB who didn't win zip in that period ... I am sure you see where I am going with this.
.P.S. Let me clarify something - Rodgers is a very, very talented QB. He is, imo, more talented than Brady and Montana. But so is Peyton and so was Marino too. Long story short, greatness at the QB position is not measured by arm talent alone of how curved your deep ball is or how tight that spiral is. It is measured by one's silverware and postseason endeavors i.e. by a player's heart, will, leadership, determination. And that, mate, is where Rodgers is never gonna get close to Brady and Montana.
An example - Look at Brady last night after that sack in the redzone, 7 min before the end of the game, Pats 29-7 up. He almost broke his hand pounding the ground from anger. Next play he scored a TD and then headbutts his receiver.
Rodgers, after a good play, he just has that all-is-good, I-am-perfect, you-are-nothing smirk beaming with arrogance. That is not the attitude that has made Brady who he is - always hungry, never content with success, always chasing perfection with ferocity. That is, Rodgers may be more talented than Brady but I just don't see him ever reaching that pantheon of greatness because he lacks the right mentality.
Outside of Brady, yes - Rodgers is the only QB who's worth talking about in that talent level and at a relatively young-ish age (i.e. below late 30s). Maybe Luck also but he has the damnation of playing for a fucked up franchise like the Colts who are not headed anywhere with that garbage owner they have. Poor guy has regressed tremendously since last year and even before this current season his game was centered at racking up stats and not limiting turnovers, which is what you need to do in order to win the postseason.
Anyways, let me show you how the whole approach of cherry-picking which part of Brady's career you want to discard and which to keep and compare Rodgers with, is a failed attempt at a logical process:
Take Luck, for example. He entered the league in 2012. Since then he and A-rod have won 0 SBs each, have made it to 0 SBs each. Luck is 3-3 in postseason, Rodgers is 2-3. By your logic of "since 2008 Rodgers is at least as good if not better than Brady", Luck is a better QB than Rodgers. Do you agree? Obviously not.
Let me try this with Montana - take away his 4 SB-winning seasons and compare him with any scrub of QB who didn't win zip in that period ... I am sure you see where I am going with this..
P.S. Let me clarify something - Rodgers is a very, very talented QB. He is, imo, more talented than Brady and Montana. But so is Peyton and so was Marino too. Long story short, greatness at the QB position is not measured by arm talent alone of how curved your deep ball is or how tight that spiral is. It is measured by one's silverware and postseason endeavors i.e. by a player's heart, will, leadership, determination. And that, mate, is where Rodgers is never gonna get close to Brady and Montana.
An example - Look at Brady last night after that sack in the redzone, 7 min before the end of the game, Pats 29-7 up. He almost broke his hand pounding the ground from anger. Next play he scored a TD and then headbutts his receiver.
Rodgers, after a good play, he just has that all-is-good, I-am-perfect, you-are-nothing smirk beaming with arrogance. That is not the attitude that has made Brady who he is - always hungry, never content with success, always chasing perfection with ferocity. That is, Rodgers may be more talented than Brady but I just don't see him ever reaching that pantheon of greatness because he lacks the right mentality.
Anyways, let me show you how the whole approach of cherry-picking which part of Brady's career you want to discard and which to keep and compare Rodgers with, is a failed attempt at a logical process:
Take Luck, for example. He entered the league in 2012. Since then he and A-rod have won 0 SBs each, have made it to 0 SBs each. Luck is 3-3 in postseason, Rodgers is 2-3. By your logic of "since 2008 Rodgers is at least as good if not better than Brady", Luck is a better QB than Rodgers. Do you agree? Obviously not.
Let me try this with Montana - take away his 4 SB-winning seasons and compare him with any scrub of QB who didn't win zip in that period ... I am sure you see where I am going with this.
.P.S. Let me clarify something - Rodgers is a very, very talented QB. He is, imo, more talented than Brady and Montana. But so is Peyton and so was Marino too. Long story short, greatness at the QB position is not measured by arm talent alone of how curved your deep ball is or how tight that spiral is. It is measured by one's silverware and postseason endeavors i.e. by a player's heart, will, leadership, determination. And that, mate, is where Rodgers is never gonna get close to Brady and Montana.
An example - Look at Brady last night after that sack in the redzone, 7 min before the end of the game, Pats 29-7 up. He almost broke his hand pounding the ground from anger. Next play he scored a TD and then headbutts his receiver.
Rodgers, after a good play, he just has that all-is-good, I-am-perfect, you-are-nothing smirk beaming with arrogance. That is not the attitude that has made Brady who he is - always hungry, never content with success, always chasing perfection with ferocity. That is, Rodgers may be more talented than Brady but I just don't see him ever reaching that pantheon of greatness because he lacks the right mentality.
I can agree with this. I only differ in that I'm not sure yet if Rodgers has it in him to really show the determination and drive to dominate through another playoff run like 2010. You might be right, that his ego and attitude is getting in the way of continued postseason success. I saw the hard work, determination and drive in 2010. There was nothing that was going to stop him or that team. It's been missing since then. Maybe the last few season's, the humbling losses like the playoff disaster against Seattle last year will act as inspiration for him to work harder, be better... it's hard to say.
As a Packer fan, I certainly hope he can rediscover that drive...
And I do understand the logic point there of not removing Brady's start to his career. It was more so a way of stating that Rodgers has had a pretty damn good first 7 seasons in the NFL, regardless of the fact he has only won 1 super bowl in that period. Of course Brady had the best start to an NFL career of any QB ever, though amusingly enough, they were during his worst statistical seasons of his career...
Where both Brady and Rodgers (and even Montana, although only in the postseason) have similarities is they both are exceptional QBs at limiting turnovers. The 2 best QBs of all time in terms of TD-INT ratio, and in terms of lowest INT%... And this is why I have hope for Rodgers winning a couple more SBs. It's also why gunslinger QBs like Favre, Manning, Elway, etc failed so often in the postseason... They were and always have been late season turnover machines... They're not smart with the ball when they need to be. Manning should have multiple SB wins, the only thing preventing that is his tendency to throw untimely interceptions in big games. I haven't seen that out of Rodgers yet.
What worries me about Rodgers, is conservative playcalling when down or tied late in games. Sometimes he makes the "smart" play, when he really should be going for it... Whether that is on him, or on the OC and Coach is a moot point, I've seen it often, and it's the biggest frustration I have with him, and I think the stumbling block right now to getting to that Montana-Brady level. They were also exceptionally smart QBs, but were less afraid to gamble when situations dictated it.
Luck's regression is probably a little overblown right now... and will continue to be overblown in the immediate future, because I doubt that throwing shoulder is going to be fully healthy this season.
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
Luck's regression is probably a little overblown right now... and will continue to be overblown in the immediate future, because I doubt that throwing shoulder is going to be fully healthy this season.
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
Luck's regression is probably a little overblown right now... and will continue to be overblown in the immediate future, because I doubt that throwing shoulder is going to be fully healthy this season.
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
That's true, but he's also only been in the league 4 years -- with one of the very worst offensive lines in football, and a fairly unimpressive set of weapons around him (at least until this season) -- so that's important context, too. He's been asked to pretty much do it all the past 3 years. Jury is still out.
They definitely need to work on their intermediate passing game (play call), everything shouldn't be a deep ball (and can't be, now that the arm strength lacking).
Gore is outstanding in the screen game, Bradshaw is very solid, too. Both excellent in pass protection. They've got a couple pretty solid TEs, to boot. Need to mix it up more underneath, no question.
I don't know much about a "bruised rotator cuff", I'm not sure what that recovery is like. But watching him the past season and a half, he does look like he's starting to decline a bit. He could obviously use more help, so I could be premature there, but in my head his arm doesn't look quite as strong as it used to.
Could be temporary, but he's also turning 37 in January, so...
They definitely need to work on their intermediate passing game (play call), everything shouldn't be a deep ball (and can't be, now that the arm strength lacking).
Gore is outstanding in the screen game, Bradshaw is very solid, too. Both excellent in pass protection. They've got a couple pretty solid TEs, to boot. Need to mix it up more underneath, no question.
I don't know much about a "bruised rotator cuff", I'm not sure what that recovery is like. But watching him the past season and a half, he does look like he's starting to decline a bit. He could obviously use more help, so I could be premature there, but in my head his arm doesn't look quite as strong as it used to.
Could be temporary, but he's also turning 37 in January, so...
Luck's regression is probably a little overblown right now... and will continue to be overblown in the immediate future, because I doubt that throwing shoulder is going to be fully healthy this season.
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
I read he had a subluxation. If it's like the supraspinatus subluxation that I had this summer, it's not exactly a quick fix. Mine was initially diagnosed as a tear, than the subluxation, which my physio told me was about 3 months of rehab to 100%.
Granted Luck's a freak, and is getting treatment a bajillion times a day, but it takes awhile to get that shoulder strength back -- which is obviously pretty important for a QB . He's also getting planted quite a few times every week, so...
This being said, I doubt he is fully healthy but he does put a zip on that ball, so his shoulder is not as bad as you may expect.
Example - see Brees' ball and lack of power and spiral in his throw when he injured his shoulder vs Tampa earlier in this season. Luck's situation doesn't seem anywhere near as bad. Again, doubt he is at 100% but imo he's suffering his lack of trust in his reads/instincts and the subsequent forcing of a throw a lot more than any ramifications of his shoulder injury.
This being said, even in all previous years Luck's been a turnover machine. With each subsequent year, they put more and more on his table - this is the natural process of a QB's development as he gets to use more and more of the playbook with each new year (usually, under ideal circumstances, it would take 3 full years before a QB is just let out there on his own with the full play-book at his disposal e.g. Rodgers under Favre). This is Luck's 4th year now, so it's not completely illogical to suggest that maybe he's reached a point where they are asking him to bite a bit more than he can chew resulting in an actual regression of his play ... contrary to what one would expect i.e. the longer he plays in th NFL, the better he becomes.
I know about the lack of OL and RB-help excuses but those work only if you were to compare say Wilson and Luck, not in general. Brady, Rodgers have had subpar OLines, lacked running game or elite Ds quite often over the years but they still figure out a way around it.
Also, look at Hasselbeck earlier this year - same OL-ine, same supporting cast, yet no boneheaded ints/turnovers and virtually sack free thru 2 full games.
Those knuckleheads in the Indy front office are certainly not helping Luck's development but at the same time one has to wonder if he hasn't hit a brick wall in his progress towards becoming an elite NFL QB due to his own limitations.
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you drafted the wrong QB, deal with it
seriously, I think he is at a point in his career where they are changing the offense to limit the burden on his shoulders i.e. they are managing his workload and exposure to hits, in general, not necessarily because of that shoulder injury.
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Any of you niggas playing Daily Fantasy Footie (DraftKings, FanDuel, Yahoo Leagues)? I am thinking of giving it a shot so wondering which one you'd recommend? Any differences between those set-ups or is all the same crap?
You think so? He looked pretty pedestrian against Utah a couple weeks ago. Threw 5 ints.
I can't stand MSU and Dantonio, but I think Connor Cook is the best QB eligible in this draft. He's not as flashy, not as high ceiling perhaps as Goff... but a much more guaranteed bet to be a solid NFL starter imo. Very very smart QB. Very few interceptions, doesn't take sacks, good footwork, good arm strength, makes few mistakes, has decent scrambling ability...
I can't stand MSU and Dantonio, but I think Connor Cook is the best QB eligible in this draft. He's not as flashy, not as high ceiling perhaps as Goff... but a much more guaranteed bet to be a solid NFL starter imo. Very very smart QB. Very few interceptions, doesn't take sacks, good footwork, good arm strength, makes few mistakes, has decent scrambling ability...