American NFL Football (58 Viewers)

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,685
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article162968358.html

The Panthers are looking to set themselves back a good 5-10 years, yet again. That's what happens when you don' learn from past mistakes - you repeat them, literally.

- - - Updated - - -

The pats sign David Harris

- - - Updated - - -

2 years 5 Mill
J-E-T-S

JETS! JETS! JETS!

- - - Updated - - -

:lol: and in will come acmilan to defend the patriots and suck some Brady cock as he puts down every other quarterback in existence as a scrub whose team does everything. I used to think he had a brain on him based on his footie knowledge but his American sports views are so biased, it's ridiculous
:touched:

yeah, because having a brain dictates saying Rodgers is better than Brady ...
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,680
If the Dolphins do sign Cutler, I would love to see how they justify this instead of signing Kaepernick. Are we to believe that Jay Cutler is actually better than Kapernick at this point in their careers?

Come on now.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,015
If the Dolphins do sign Cutler, I would love to see how they justify this instead of signing Kaepernick. Are we to believe that Jay Cutler is actually better than Kapernick at this point in their careers?

Come on now.
I honestly don't think they're that far apart. Cutler gets a lot of shit but he's a good QB imo. And with Gase, he'll be on top of his game.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,680
I honestly don't think they're that far apart. Cutler gets a lot of shit but he's a good QB imo. And with Gase, he'll be on top of his game.
He is 34 years old and brittle. Whatever athleticism he had, is gone. And Karpernick has every bit of the arm strength, if not morr
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,685
If the Dolphins do sign Cutler, I would love to see how they justify this instead of signing Kaepernick. Are we to believe that Jay Cutler is actually better than Kapernick at this point in their careers?

Come on now.
A somewhat overlooked reason for Kaep's NFL opportunities, or lack thereof, besides all the off-field stuff, is also scheme-fit. Unlike Wilson, Kaep's never managed to transition from an option QB to a pocket-passer. Kaep is a below average pocket-passer but is at his best (read first 2-3 years with 9ers) as an option-QB.

Problem is, not many teams run, or are built to run, that type of offense and transitioning to it from a more traditional type of O is not all that simple as it may require change of coaching and player personnel.
I hate Cutler and would much rather have Kaep in my team's locker-room, but from a pure scheme perspective, Cutler is the better fit for Gase's offense.

The moment Baltimore are done with all the "testing the temp of the crowd" bull-shit, I think they would be a better fit for Kaep also because of Greg Roman's presence on their coaching staff. If Flacco's season is compromised - not a stretch considering herniated discs don't heal overnight with herbal treatments and massages - Kaep may well have an opportunity to run an offense that suits him best at B-more.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,680
A somewhat overlooked reason for Kaep's NFL opportunities, or lack thereof, besides all the off-field stuff, is also scheme-fit. Unlike Wilson, Kaep's never managed to transition from an option QB to a pocket-passer. Kaep is a below average pocket-passer but is at his best (read first 2-3 years with 9ers) as an option-QB.

Problem is, not many teams run, or are built to run, that type of offense and transitioning to it from a more traditional type of O is not all that simple as it may require change of coaching and player personnel.
I hate Cutler and would much rather have Kaep in my team's locker-room, but from a pure scheme perspective, Cutler is the better fit for Gase's offense.

The moment Baltimore are done with all the "testing the temp of the crowd" bull-shit, I think they would be a better fit for Kaep also because of Greg Roman's presence on their coaching staff. If Flacco's season is compromised - not a stretch considering herniated discs don't heal overnight with herbal treatments and massages - Kaep may well have an opportunity to run an offense that suits him best at B-more.
I get that.

However.

As a backup QB? He can't even get a job as a backup QB? There is more to it than system fit, or scheme. There simply has to be. Are there seriously 96 better QB's in the league right now than him?
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,015
I get that.

However.

As a backup QB? He can't even get a job as a backup QB? There is more to it than system fit, or scheme. There simply has to be. Are there seriously 96 better QB's in the league right now than him?
Maybe he's asking for too much or doesn't want to be a backup.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,680
Maybe he's asking for too much or doesn't want to be a backup.
He had a visit and workout with Seattle, where there is no chance he's the starter

- - - Updated - - -

You can be a multiple time PED offender, a repeat offender in the substance abuse program, commit vehicular homicide, beat your wife or girlfriend up, or get accused of sexual assault.

And brutally abuse and murder dogs too. Let's not forget that.

Not a problem for the NFL.

But if you protest what is going on in your own country, you can't get a job.
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,685
And Jay "The INT" Cutler lands in the AFC East ... Man, Patriots do have it tough :D

- - - Updated - - -

I get that.

However.

As a backup QB? He can't even get a job as a backup QB? There is more to it than system fit, or scheme. There simply has to be. Are there seriously 96 better QB's in the league right now than him?
Even back-up QBs need to be a fit for the system. If you need your back-up QB to play, it's probably something that had to happen on the fly, without long-term planning and that QB and the rest of the offense need to be in sync within the same system.

There are about 3-4 teams in the NFL that run, or have run, the option system with success - Seahawks, Bills, Carolina and maybe, just maybe the Ravens if they have to, considering Greg Roman's presence there ... that's about it, really, unless I am forgetting someone.

Bills have Taylor who is a Kaep 2.0 but even that team, with the new regime in place, seems to be looking to move towards a more traditional offense with a pocket-passer QB, which is why they drafted a QB this year. Only reason why they kept Taylor and will run an option O this year too is because they have no better option for a pocket-passer.

Seattle have already moved onto making Wilson a pocket-passer and are trying to make him run as little as possible. Carolina seems to be following int heir foot-steps, looking to reinvent Cam Newton in an attempt to prolong his career.
Both these teams have entrenched, franchise-level QBs, so they are not really much of an option for Kaep, unless he is willing to be a back-up.

Maybe at this point in free agency, after seeing little to no interest from the NFL, Kaep has adjusted his expectattions/demands and has realized that his only option to stay in the NFL is as a back-up. Chances are, however, he was strictly looking for a starting job and salary at the beginning of the process, early in the free agency period.
That could very well explain the lack of interest/opportunities for Kaep even if were to look beyond the off-field stuff.

And even now, say he is willing to be a back-up, there is still the issue with money - there are back-up QBs who get paid 6-7 mil a year, while others top out at 2 mil, if that. Even if he is willing to be a back-up somewhere, that doesn't mean he would be willing to settle for bread-crumbs, which may well have been the stumbling block with Seattle - they did show interest in Kaep but they eventually settled for another back-up whom they are paying less than 1 mill/year, iirc, something Kaep most likely would never agree to.

Carolina already have a decent back-up QB under contract, so they are not an option, which leaves Baltimore ...
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,252
He had a visit and workout with Seattle, where there is no chance he's the starter

- - - Updated - - -

You can be a multiple time PED offender, a repeat offender in the substance abuse program, commit vehicular homicide, beat your wife or girlfriend up, or get accused of sexual assault.

And brutally abuse and murder dogs too. Let's not forget that.

Not a problem for the NFL.

But if you protest what is going on in your own country, you can't get a job.
Yep. It's a shame.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,680
And Jay "The INT" Cutler lands in the AFC East ... Man, Patriots do have it tough :D

- - - Updated - - -



Even back-up QBs need to be a fit for the system. If you need your back-up QB to play, it's probably something that had to happen on the fly, without long-term planning and that QB and the rest of the offense need to be in sync within the same system.

There are about 3-4 teams in the NFL that run, or have run, the option system with success - Seahawks, Bills, Carolina and maybe, just maybe the Ravens if they have to, considering Greg Roman's presence there ... that's about it, really, unless I am forgetting someone.

Bills have Taylor who is a Kaep 2.0 but even that team, with the new regime in place, seems to be looking to move towards a more traditional offense with a pocket-passer QB, which is why they drafted a QB this year. Only reason why they kept Taylor and will run an option O this year too is because they have no better option for a pocket-passer.

Seattle have already moved onto making Wilson a pocket-passer and are trying to make him run as little as possible. Carolina seems to be following int heir foot-steps, looking to reinvent Cam Newton in an attempt to prolong his career.
Both these teams have entrenched, franchise-level QBs, so they are not really much of an option for Kaep, unless he is willing to be a back-up.

Maybe at this point in free agency, after seeing little to no interest from the NFL, Kaep has adjusted his expectattions/demands and has realized that his only option to stay in the NFL is as a back-up. Chances are, however, he was strictly looking for a starting job and salary at the beginning of the process, early in the free agency period.
That could very well explain the lack of interest/opportunities for Kaep even if were to look beyond the off-field stuff.

And even now, say he is willing to be a back-up, there is still the issue with money - there are back-up QBs who get paid 6-7 mil a year, while others top out at 2 mil, if that. Even if he is willing to be a back-up somewhere, that doesn't mean he would be willing to settle for bread-crumbs, which may well have been the stumbling block with Seattle - they did show interest in Kaep but they eventually settled for another back-up whom they are paying less than 1 mill/year, iirc, something Kaep most likely would never agree to.

Carolina already have a decent back-up QB under contract, so they are not an option, which leaves Baltimore ...
This thesis still doesn't change my opinion, or those who play in the NFL that have given an opinion about him, that Colin Karpernick is not better than 96 other quarterbacks out there.

Call it what it is. He's being shunned because of his political views. Plain and simple.
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,685
This thesis still doesn't change my opinion, or those who play in the NFL that have given an opinion about him, that Colin Karpernick is not better than 96 other quarterbacks out there.

Call it what it is. He's being shunned because of his political views. Plain and simple.
I am not saying that his off-field actions are not a problem at all for the NFL. I am sure there are teams out there - especially the ones in the South, if you know what I mean - that would not take Kaep no matter what, just for his politics. Can I imagine Kaep on the Cowboys, for example? Hell no ...

That's not the case with the entire NFL, however, as there are teams that represent more progressively-thinking places where the whole kneeling thing would not be that big of an issue, if at all.
One example of such a team is Seattle. The stumbling block in those negotiations, however, was likely his role on the team and especially his salary demands (Seahawks are tight vs the cap anyway), which is what I tried to explain earlier.
Even Stephen Ross of all people, the Dolphins owner, came out and actually supported Kaep's actions and those of Dolphins players, who had shown solidarity with him.

The point I was trying to make in the previous post was that there are plenty of football-related reasons why Kaep's market of suitors would be a narrow/restricted one, in general, even if you were to leave out all the off-field stuff.

In the end of the day, Kaep would be worth the trouble only in an option-QB system because, as a pocket passer, he is mediocre at best. In fact, even during the Harbough days at the 9ers, he ranked near the bottom in stats as a pocket passer. It was his play out of the option that masked those deficiencies and made Kaep look a lot better than he really was from the perspective of a traditional, pocket-passing QB.

And like I tried to explain, there are very few - 3, in fact - teams in the NFL that use or have used the 'option' play with success. Two of those teams - Bills and Panthers - are actually trying to move away from the option towards a traditional passing offense, while the third team, the Seahawks, have already basically completed this transition. In other words, not many opportunities for Kaep to play to his potential as an option QB because he is simply mediocre and even below-average as a pocket passer, which brings me to my last point: the Tim Tebow experience.

Tebow, back when he was pushed out of the NFL, and even today, for all his bad throwing mechanics and such, is likely a better QB than most back-up QBs in the NFL and possibly better than some starters too.
How come he reached a point where he couldn't find a team then, even if he was the poster child of good old Jesus-praising, American-flag-saluting, white-republican politics that many NFL owners and fans probably jerk-off to before bedtime? Because, while he may have been better than many back-ups, Tebow just wasn't good enough to be worth the trouble, scrutiny and distraction that he represented. In short, it was a business decision ...

That's what Kaep is too, for many, if not most NFL teams - as a pocket-passer, which is what most NFL teams run these days, he simply isn't worth the distraction he would bring with him. If he was even an above-average passing QB, let alone a really good/great one, he would have been on a team right now even if he had raped his own mom surrounded by american flags, all on national TV - such is the business of making money and that's what the NFL is.

Kaepernick is a very good option-QB, on the right team, but unfortunately for him that system is a dying breed in the NFL and options in that regard are few and far between, no pun intended.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,015
I agree with acmilan, NFL owners are all about profit no matter what. If Kaep was desirable enough and guaranteed enough wins, he'd have gotten a team to sign him.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,680
I personally don't think that's the case but I have no proof
Blaine Gabbert has a job in the NFL as a backup QB.

Blaine FUCKING Gabbert. The same guy who was Kapernick's backup last year in SF.

- - - Updated - - -

I am not saying that his off-field actions are not a problem at all for the NFL. I am sure there are teams out there - especially the ones in the South, if you know what I mean - that would not take Kaep no matter what, just for his politics. Can I imagine Kaep on the Cowboys, for example? Hell no ...

That's not the case with the entire NFL, however, as there are teams that represent more progressively-thinking places where the whole kneeling thing would not be that big of an issue, if at all.
One example of such a team is Seattle. The stumbling block in those negotiations, however, was likely his role on the team and especially his salary demands (Seahawks are tight vs the cap anyway), which is what I tried to explain earlier.
Even Stephen Ross of all people, the Dolphins owner, came out and actually supported Kaep's actions and those of Dolphins players, who had shown solidarity with him.

The point I was trying to make in the previous post was that there are plenty of football-related reasons why Kaep's market of suitors would be a narrow/restricted one, in general, even if you were to leave out all the off-field stuff.

In the end of the day, Kaep would be worth the trouble only in an option-QB system because, as a pocket passer, he is mediocre at best. In fact, even during the Harbough days at the 9ers, he ranked near the bottom in stats as a pocket passer. It was his play out of the option that masked those deficiencies and made Kaep look a lot better than he really was from the perspective of a traditional, pocket-passing QB.

And like I tried to explain, there are very few - 3, in fact - teams in the NFL that use or have used the 'option' play with success. Two of those teams - Bills and Panthers - are actually trying to move away from the option towards a traditional passing offense, while the third team, the Seahawks, have already basically completed this transition. In other words, not many opportunities for Kaep to play to his potential as an option QB because he is simply mediocre and even below-average as a pocket passer, which brings me to my last point: the Tim Tebow experience.

Tebow, back when he was pushed out of the NFL, and even today, for all his bad throwing mechanics and such, is likely a better QB than most back-up QBs in the NFL and possibly better than some starters too.
How come he reached a point where he couldn't find a team then, even if he was the poster child of good old Jesus-praising, American-flag-saluting, white-republican politics that many NFL owners and fans probably jerk-off to before bedtime? Because, while he may have been better than many back-ups, Tebow just wasn't good enough to be worth the trouble, scrutiny and distraction that he represented. In short, it was a business decision ...

That's what Kaep is too, for many, if not most NFL teams - as a pocket-passer, which is what most NFL teams run these days, he simply isn't worth the distraction he would bring with him. If he was even an above-average passing QB, let alone a really good/great one, he would have been on a team right now even if he had raped his own mom surrounded by american flags, all on national TV - such is the business of making money and that's what the NFL is.

Kaepernick is a very good option-QB, on the right team, but unfortunately for him that system is a dying breed in the NFL and options in that regard are few and far between, no pun intended.
We can talk about systems all you want, and to a degree that is correct.

But then explain how Blaine Gabbert, the same Blaine Gabbert who has played the last 2 seasons on the same team as Kaepernick, has a job.

And this whole "Like I tried to explain" thing you have going on here at least on 2 occasions in your response. I get it. For some reason, you don't think I don't. Stop being condescending. You're smart, we know that.
 

acmilan

Plusvalenza Akbar
Nov 8, 2005
10,685
Blaine Gabbert has a job in the NFL as a backup QB.

Blaine FUCKING Gabbert. The same guy who was Kapernick's backup last year in SF.

- - - Updated - - -



We can talk about systems all you want, and to a degree that is correct.

But then explain how Blaine Gabbert, the same Blaine Gabbert who has played the last 2 seasons on the same team as Kaepernick, has a job.
Gabbert may not be any better than Kaep as a pocket-passer but Gabbert doesn't represent a distraction either.

A business decision comes down to putting together all the positives and negatives and seeing which comes out on top. In Gabbert's case, its the positives, in Kaep's and Tebow's case, it's the negatives. Those last two simply aren't good enough to warrant the distractions they represent.

P.S. And here we are assuming that Keap is actually willing to scrub a bench, while getting paid bottom-of-the-barrel moneys that Gabbert is getting. And that is a JJUUUUGE assumption. :p

- - - Updated - - -

Blaine Gabbert has a job in the NFL as a backup QB.

Blaine FUCKING Gabbert. The same guy who was Kapernick's backup last year in SF.

- - - Updated - - -



We can talk about systems all you want, and to a degree that is correct.

But then explain how Blaine Gabbert, the same Blaine Gabbert who has played the last 2 seasons on the same team as Kaepernick, has a job.

And this whole "Like I tried to explain" thing you have going on here at least on 2 occasions in your response. I get it. For some reason, you don't think I don't. Stop being condescending. You're smart, we know that.
wasn't trying to be condescending, was just referring to things I had said before because I didn't want go back to repeating points from that previous post in order to clarify what I meant in the new one ;)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 51)