Man, they better get on the horn with John Abraham, Kerry Rhodes, and Sean Smith ASAP, or the Niners will be looking up to the Seahawks next season.
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Man, they better get on the horn with John Abraham, Kerry Rhodes, and Sean Smith ASAP, or the Niners will be looking up to the Seahawks next season.
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No kidding. The gap wasn't big to begin with. The Defense was already vicious, and the Harvin deal... they just have such potential on offence; speed, power, even some finesse. Score quick, grind it out; get what they want, when they want it.
Was watching a clip of Percy this morning, he is so excited to be there. Showed up on day one, and Wilson's already in there at 6AM studying film, and organizing their offseason workouts together in Cali.
San Francisco needs to plug those holes, secondary/D-line need help!
Was watching a clip of Percy this morning, he is so excited to be there. Showed up on day one, and Wilson's already in there at 6AM studying film, and organizing their offseason workouts together in Cali.
San Francisco needs to plug those holes, secondary/D-line need help!
you are fogetting something - TE is the new slot-WRs 
. Plus, I doubt the financially-prudent Pats would go out and splash 10+mil for a any single WR out there (or any player that is).
You don't go for a new go-to guy - no point in doing so if was quite likely the biggest reason they got rid of Wes in the first place; You just spread those passes around:
TEs - expect the Pats to go for another passing/WR-type TE as an alternative for hernandez, be it from free agency or the draft (Rivera comes to mind as a left-round clone of AH's)
slot WRs - Amendola is one option in free agency; Ebert, a Welker-like player (from Welker's school too) was their pick from last year's draft, and is another way of compensating for losing Welker
draft - Austin (1st rounder, very similar to Percy Harvin minus the BS)/Ace Sanders (late rounder, who's incredibly explosive player, a bit like Sproles-Welker mix) are two slot-guys who'd be another alternative.
wideouts to supplement or even replace Lloyd: free agency (Wilson, Gibson, etc) or the draft (Hopkins, Patton, Allen, etc).
Point is, before losing Welker and considering not keeping Lloyd for next year too, the Pats would have never drafted a WR in the 1st round; now that's changed imo. Also, The Pats have enough cap room to take care of most of their other needs in free agency - this year there are plenty of Safeties and CBs out there, not many teams with much cap room to speak of, which means good players in the secondary available for bargain prices. Beyond that, a cover LB and a back O-lineman (if Volmer stays) just about covers all the Pats need to replenish the roster. This means they can focus on getting slot WRs and wideouts from the draft.
P.S. and as I am typing this, I read that the Pats have gotten Danny Amendola
5 year deal for 30 mil (10 guaranteed) seems a bit much but BB should know what he's doing
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Why? Amendola is unlikley to be meant as a direct Welker replacement i.e. he'd never get the amount of targets Welker was getting; The whole point of that "theory" was that they should spread it around, to several guys, and not just focus on Welker; Amendola would be at most one of theose guys, expect more to come, from draft or free agency.
. Plus, I doubt the financially-prudent Pats would go out and splash 10+mil for a any single WR out there (or any player that is).You don't go for a new go-to guy - no point in doing so if was quite likely the biggest reason they got rid of Wes in the first place; You just spread those passes around:
TEs - expect the Pats to go for another passing/WR-type TE as an alternative for hernandez, be it from free agency or the draft (Rivera comes to mind as a left-round clone of AH's)
slot WRs - Amendola is one option in free agency; Ebert, a Welker-like player (from Welker's school too) was their pick from last year's draft, and is another way of compensating for losing Welker
draft - Austin (1st rounder, very similar to Percy Harvin minus the BS)/Ace Sanders (late rounder, who's incredibly explosive player, a bit like Sproles-Welker mix) are two slot-guys who'd be another alternative.
wideouts to supplement or even replace Lloyd: free agency (Wilson, Gibson, etc) or the draft (Hopkins, Patton, Allen, etc).
Point is, before losing Welker and considering not keeping Lloyd for next year too, the Pats would have never drafted a WR in the 1st round; now that's changed imo. Also, The Pats have enough cap room to take care of most of their other needs in free agency - this year there are plenty of Safeties and CBs out there, not many teams with much cap room to speak of, which means good players in the secondary available for bargain prices. Beyond that, a cover LB and a back O-lineman (if Volmer stays) just about covers all the Pats need to replenish the roster. This means they can focus on getting slot WRs and wideouts from the draft.
P.S. and as I am typing this, I read that the Pats have gotten Danny Amendola
5 year deal for 30 mil (10 guaranteed) seems a bit much but BB should know what he's doing
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The question is this now.
Where do the Patriots go from here with their wideout situation?
Do they go after Jennings, and would reallistically have to offer twice as much per season for a guy who is injury prone the last couple of years?
I don't think there is any way that Lloyd gets cut now. He's the only legit WR they have now.
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And the Patriots just signed Amendola to a 5 year deal.
5 years/ 31 million dollars.
You've got to be kidding me.
Guy is never healthy.
So much for that "security blanket" theory, acmilan
Where do the Patriots go from here with their wideout situation?
Do they go after Jennings, and would reallistically have to offer twice as much per season for a guy who is injury prone the last couple of years?
I don't think there is any way that Lloyd gets cut now. He's the only legit WR they have now.
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And the Patriots just signed Amendola to a 5 year deal.
5 years/ 31 million dollars.
You've got to be kidding me.
Guy is never healthy.
So much for that "security blanket" theory, acmilan
you are fogetting something - TE is the new slot-WRs . Plus, I doubt the financially-prudent Pats would go out and splash 10+mil for a any single WR out there (or any player that is).
You don't go for a new go-to guy - no point in doing so if was quite likely the biggest reason they got rid of Wes in the first place; You just spread those passes around:
TEs - expect the Pats to go for another passing/WR-type TE as an alternative for hernandez, be it from free agency or the draft (Rivera comes to mind as a left-round clone of AH's)
slot WRs - Amendola is one option in free agency; Ebert, a Welker-like player (from Welker's school too) was their pick from last year's draft, and is another way of compensating for losing Welker
draft - Austin (1st rounder, very similar to Percy Harvin minus the BS)/Ace Sanders (late rounder, who's incredibly explosive player, a bit like Sproles-Welker mix) are two slot-guys who'd be another alternative.
wideouts to supplement or even replace Lloyd: free agency (Wilson, Gibson, etc) or the draft (Hopkins, Patton, Allen, etc).
Point is, before losing Welker and considering not keeping Lloyd for next year too, the Pats would have never drafted a WR in the 1st round; now that's changed imo. Also, The Pats have enough cap room to take care of most of their other needs in free agency - this year there are plenty of Safeties and CBs out there, not many teams with much cap room to speak of, which means good players in the secondary available for bargain prices. Beyond that, a cover LB and a back O-lineman (if Volmer stays) just about covers all the Pats need to replenish the roster. This means they can focus on getting slot WRs and wideouts from the draft.
P.S. and as I am typing this, I read that the Pats have gotten Danny Amendola
5 year deal for 30 mil (10 guaranteed) seems a bit much but BB should know what he's doing
. Plus, I doubt the financially-prudent Pats would go out and splash 10+mil for a any single WR out there (or any player that is).You don't go for a new go-to guy - no point in doing so if was quite likely the biggest reason they got rid of Wes in the first place; You just spread those passes around:
TEs - expect the Pats to go for another passing/WR-type TE as an alternative for hernandez, be it from free agency or the draft (Rivera comes to mind as a left-round clone of AH's)
slot WRs - Amendola is one option in free agency; Ebert, a Welker-like player (from Welker's school too) was their pick from last year's draft, and is another way of compensating for losing Welker
draft - Austin (1st rounder, very similar to Percy Harvin minus the BS)/Ace Sanders (late rounder, who's incredibly explosive player, a bit like Sproles-Welker mix) are two slot-guys who'd be another alternative.
wideouts to supplement or even replace Lloyd: free agency (Wilson, Gibson, etc) or the draft (Hopkins, Patton, Allen, etc).
Point is, before losing Welker and considering not keeping Lloyd for next year too, the Pats would have never drafted a WR in the 1st round; now that's changed imo. Also, The Pats have enough cap room to take care of most of their other needs in free agency - this year there are plenty of Safeties and CBs out there, not many teams with much cap room to speak of, which means good players in the secondary available for bargain prices. Beyond that, a cover LB and a back O-lineman (if Volmer stays) just about covers all the Pats need to replenish the roster. This means they can focus on getting slot WRs and wideouts from the draft.
P.S. and as I am typing this, I read that the Pats have gotten Danny Amendola
5 year deal for 30 mil (10 guaranteed) seems a bit much but BB should know what he's doing
Then they go and sign a younger, albeit far more injury prone, Wes Welker type for what amounts to a 5 year deal, or when you look at it another way, players who will both be at the same age when their respective contracts are up.
I would have been in line with your way of thinking if they went and signed someone like Jennings with that money, but now they are back to square one with a, let's be honest here, an inferior version of the same player that you just let walk to the Denver Broncos
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Is it any coincedence that the patriots are signing players who have a history with Josh McDaniels?
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And here is something to think about. How much did Gronkwoski and Hernandez benefit from Welker being on the field?
Keep in mind that Welker was putting up fantastic numbers well before either one of them got to the Patriots.
Wow, AC. And you called me out for being a 9er homer the other day?
Given the relationship with Brady, the money, and the exceptionally short term on the deal - making it basically a zero risk deal - I see this as being an absolutely brutal decision by the Pats. Brutal. The numbers he posted also don't really indicate a decline of any kind to me, and all of that talk about the safety blanket - c'mon. You're talking about one of the greatest QB's to ever play the game, I totally disagree that Tom Brady having his favourite target against tough teams creates problems. I don't see it in the numbers from most of those tough games, I don't see it in the P-off totals. That whole comfort zone thing... I do not buy any of it. Plus you lose his versatility for the return game.
You had injuries to Gronk, and Hernandez was slowed by health. That's going to make an offence more predictable. They'll use Hernandez to fill that void some, but jeez.
Also, the health concerns are overblown, this is a guy who tore his frigging ACL, and, as Sergio mentioned, has missed 3 games in 6 years, playing the way he does. Disrespected by management, and if I were a Pats fan, I would be Pissed
Given the relationship with Brady, the money, and the exceptionally short term on the deal - making it basically a zero risk deal - I see this as being an absolutely brutal decision by the Pats. Brutal. The numbers he posted also don't really indicate a decline of any kind to me, and all of that talk about the safety blanket - c'mon. You're talking about one of the greatest QB's to ever play the game, I totally disagree that Tom Brady having his favourite target against tough teams creates problems. I don't see it in the numbers from most of those tough games, I don't see it in the P-off totals. That whole comfort zone thing... I do not buy any of it. Plus you lose his versatility for the return game.
You had injuries to Gronk, and Hernandez was slowed by health. That's going to make an offence more predictable. They'll use Hernandez to fill that void some, but jeez.
Also, the health concerns are overblown, this is a guy who tore his frigging ACL, and, as Sergio mentioned, has missed 3 games in 6 years, playing the way he does. Disrespected by management, and if I were a Pats fan, I would be Pissed
People keep mentioning that he's missed only 3 games in his career but you need to remember that he tore his ACL at the very end of the 2009 season. Had that happened in the first game or in a pre-season game, he'd missed that entire season.
I don't disagree that Welker deserved more respect by the management but that's the nature of the business - they would do what they think would be best for the team and considering their record, I don't think anyone should question that before seeing the fruits it would bear.
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I am not contradicting myself, look above at my response (shorter one) to your earlier post.
Loosing Welker means losing a lot of catches and lots of throws at a given player; The whole point of making the O less predictable is to spread those over several diff players (TEs, other slot guys, wideouts, etc). The Pats gettign Amendola doesn't mean that he would now be getting all those targets by Brady instead of Wes ... he will likely be just one of several guys onto whom Brady will have to find a way to distribute Wes' productivity from previous seasons.
You shouldn't assume the Pats are gonna put all their post-Welker eggs in the Amendola basket
I agree that Amendola's deal- at least what's being reported right now - is a bit higher/longer than what I'd have thought. But mind there is some serious misconception with him being injury prone and Welker being impervious to injury. Most of the games Amendola missed in the NFL have come in bulk in the 2010 season, iirc, where he got a shoulder injury in the first game of the season and had to miss the rest of it. What if Welker tore his ACL not in the last game of the 2009 season but in the first one instead? He'd have missed that entire year too and his record wouldn't have been as impressive.
Again, Jennings would have represented another go-to guy, another "secutiry blanket" so to speak for the money he would have required (at least 10 mil a season). Also, keep in mind that contracts in the NFl mean very little byond guaranteed money and that for Amendola's deal is just 10 mil, Jennings would have asked for at least 25-30 mil, I'd think, in a contract worth close to 45-50 mil altogether. I agree that Amendola's deal looks abit too high at 30 mil over 5 years but the guaranteed money is just a third of that.
No, I don't think it's a coincidence but in Amendola's case, I think he was a natural choice for a slot-guy who'd fit the Pats system.
I am sure Gronk and AH benefitted from Wes' presence in that O, just like he did benefit from them too. How much nad if at all that would change remains to be seen.
He was, kind of what the "security blanket" theory implied - if you are being thrown to too often (making the O predictable), your numbers would naturally be great, not so much the teams' record in SB gone to and especially won, though
Clearly New England must think that Danny Amendola is a special player. As someone who has had him in Fantasy Football the past 2 seasons (have tracked him quite closely, permanently on IR, basically), and watched him in divisional games, I would say that he is really quite good. Wes Welker, he's not.
Necessary? It's a two year deal, brother, it's 6M dollars for a guy who is the QB's best buddy on the team, and averages over 100 catches a year. Even if he had appreciably declined physically, which I haven't seen with my own eyes yet, nor can I see it on the stat sheet (which, as you mentioned isn't the point), that type of production is still ridiculous and the commitment is 2 years! If you want to diversify the offense, add some different types of pieces. I simply don't buy the idea that Welker made the Pats predictable (again, last year, the injuries to the TEs couldn't have helped), or that his presence was anything other than good for that offence.
As a stat observation, I find it interesting that he had virtually the identical number of targets last year as he had the previous season, when both of the TE's were healthy. Not sure what that means, especially with the run game on the way up I would have expected more with their absences, although I suppose adding Lloyd would account for some of that. If the Pats really needed a structural shift, you'd think they would add a different type of player - not a like for like, which is what Welker effectively is. I mean, Gronkowski, Hernandez, those guys certainly aren't short on targets, either, how many times are you going to look for them? Amendola was a target machine for Bradford, he was Sam's security blanket. I see this as inserting as close a thing as there is to Welker into the offense, just for a little more money, and a longer term.
As for the ACL injury, well of course he would have missed the rest of the season, buddy The point I was intending to put across was that he bounced back extremely well, he's dedicated to his body. He clearly takes very good care of himself.
Sorry bud, not trying to bring you down, or anything. Just think it's brutal for the fans.
Necessary? It's a two year deal, brother, it's 6M dollars for a guy who is the QB's best buddy on the team, and averages over 100 catches a year. Even if he had appreciably declined physically, which I haven't seen with my own eyes yet, nor can I see it on the stat sheet (which, as you mentioned isn't the point), that type of production is still ridiculous and the commitment is 2 years! If you want to diversify the offense, add some different types of pieces. I simply don't buy the idea that Welker made the Pats predictable (again, last year, the injuries to the TEs couldn't have helped), or that his presence was anything other than good for that offence.
As a stat observation, I find it interesting that he had virtually the identical number of targets last year as he had the previous season, when both of the TE's were healthy. Not sure what that means, especially with the run game on the way up
I would have expected more with their absences, although I suppose adding Lloyd would account for some of that. If the Pats really needed a structural shift, you'd think they would add a different type of player - not a like for like, which is what Welker effectively is. I mean, Gronkowski, Hernandez, those guys certainly aren't short on targets, either, how many times are you going to look for them? Amendola was a target machine for Bradford, he was Sam's security blanket. I see this as inserting as close a thing as there is to Welker into the offense, just for a little more money, and a longer term. As for the ACL injury, well of course he would have missed the rest of the season, buddy
The point I was intending to put across was that he bounced back extremely well, he's dedicated to his body. He clearly takes very good care of himself. Sorry bud, not trying to bring you down, or anything. Just think it's brutal for the fans.
Clearly New England must think that Danny Amendola is a special player. As someone who has had him in Fantasy Football the past 2 seasons (have tracked him quite closely, permanently on IR, basically), and watched him in divisional games, I would say that he is really quite good. Wes Welker, he's not.
Necessary? It's a two year deal, brother, it's 6M dollars for a guy who is the QB's best buddy on the team, and averages over 100 catches a year. Even if he had appreciably declined physically, which I haven't seen with my own eyes yet, nor can I see it on the stat sheet (which, as you mentioned isn't the point), that type of production is still ridiculous and the commitment is 2 years! If you want to diversify the offense, add some different types of pieces. I simply don't buy the idea that Welker made the Pats predictable (again, last year, the injuries to the TEs couldn't have helped), or that his presence was anything other than good for that offence.
As a stat observation, I find it interesting that he had virtually the identical number of targets last year as he had the previous season, when both of the TE's were healthy. Not sure what that means, especially with the run game on the way up I would have expected more with their absences, although I suppose adding Lloyd would account for some of that. If the Pats really needed a structural shift, you'd think they would add a different type of player - not a like for like, which is what Welker effectively is. I mean, Gronkowski, Hernandez, those guys certainly aren't short on targets, either, how many times are you going to look for them? Amendola was a target machine for Bradford, he was Sam's security blanket. I see this as inserting as close a thing as there is to Welker into the offense, just for a little more money, and a longer term.
As for the ACL injury, well of course he would have missed the rest of the season, buddy The point I was intending to put across was that he bounced back extremely well, he's dedicated to his body. He clearly takes very good care of himself.
Sorry bud, not trying to bring you down, or anything. Just think it's brutal for the fans.
Necessary? It's a two year deal, brother, it's 6M dollars for a guy who is the QB's best buddy on the team, and averages over 100 catches a year. Even if he had appreciably declined physically, which I haven't seen with my own eyes yet, nor can I see it on the stat sheet (which, as you mentioned isn't the point), that type of production is still ridiculous and the commitment is 2 years! If you want to diversify the offense, add some different types of pieces. I simply don't buy the idea that Welker made the Pats predictable (again, last year, the injuries to the TEs couldn't have helped), or that his presence was anything other than good for that offence.
As a stat observation, I find it interesting that he had virtually the identical number of targets last year as he had the previous season, when both of the TE's were healthy. Not sure what that means, especially with the run game on the way up
I would have expected more with their absences, although I suppose adding Lloyd would account for some of that. If the Pats really needed a structural shift, you'd think they would add a different type of player - not a like for like, which is what Welker effectively is. I mean, Gronkowski, Hernandez, those guys certainly aren't short on targets, either, how many times are you going to look for them? Amendola was a target machine for Bradford, he was Sam's security blanket. I see this as inserting as close a thing as there is to Welker into the offense, just for a little more money, and a longer term. As for the ACL injury, well of course he would have missed the rest of the season, buddy
The point I was intending to put across was that he bounced back extremely well, he's dedicated to his body. He clearly takes very good care of himself. Sorry bud, not trying to bring you down, or anything. Just think it's brutal for the fans.
Necessary not because of the money - actually, with the Pats not being willing to pick up Wes for such a modest contract, that should tell you something
- but becasue of the "security blanket" theory. Again, for the gazillionth time - that production is there because the Brady-Welker connection was being over-used. Not saying Wes isn't a good WR, he is a great one but Brady was too settled in that comfort zone and threw way too often at him (hence Wes' amazing productivity).Don't have to buy it - just look at their record come play-off time when naturally they'd be facing top-notch Ds - bottling it big time, with a side of some key drops by Wes to go too. And they should have never made it to that SB a year ago either.
It means Wes is being thorwn to no matter what, that's what it means
... and Yes, Lloyd's addition played a role in that too. I doubt Amendola is a like-for-like replacement - there will likely be other targets (TE, WR, passing situation RB, etc) coming in and all those throws Wes was getting, would be distributed over several people, not just Amendola - basically, ridding the O of a focal point, a point of predictability.I am sure he'd taking his vitamins and probably does Yoga too
not bringing me down, I am actually one of those who wanted to see Wes' role diminish for "blanket" theory reasons and possibly even move on from him for good because he was always gonna be Brady's go-to guy till he was with the team. I am sure most other Pats fans are heartbroken but I assure you I am not one of them and think it's best to just move onto another SB-winning team
And you shouldn't assume that they won't with Amendola, as he is the same type of player that Welker is.
It would make a lot more sense if they got a totally different type of receiver, more of a downfield threat to work on the perimeter instead of being in basically the same zones that Hernandez and Gronkowski will be in.
All this does is it gives the Patriots the same exact type of player, and talent for talent, the Patriots arguably got worse, while spending the same type of guaranteed money that was offered to Wes Welker.
I understand the point that you are trying to make, but how can the Patriots be less predictable on offense now when they basically just signed Welker Jr? He is the same type of receiver, who lives in the same types of areas on the field that Welker does.
And Jennings signing on with the Patriots, if that were to come to pass, does not, in my opinion, mean that Brady has a new security blanket. Jennings would stretch the field, cause the safeties to play back more in a 2 deep zone, leaving more space for for Hernandez and Gronkowski to do their damage.
Do you know why the Patriots offense became predictable and stalled? Because more often than not you had Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez in the same areas on multiple pass plays. If you are a defense, and you have less ground to cover in the secondary because you know your 3 main targets are going to be within 5 yards of each other, of course the defense will have a leg up.
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And I'm curious as to why a QB having a security blanket is such a bad thing.
I don't remember complaining when Joe Montana and Steve Young had Jerry Rice as their security blanket
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I'm getting a headache now.
I'm done for the night trying to figure out acmilan's preztel logic
I do love you, bro, and I love talking about the NFL with you. Certainly smarter than Rollie, that's for damn sure
It would make a lot more sense if they got a totally different type of receiver, more of a downfield threat to work on the perimeter instead of being in basically the same zones that Hernandez and Gronkowski will be in.
All this does is it gives the Patriots the same exact type of player, and talent for talent, the Patriots arguably got worse, while spending the same type of guaranteed money that was offered to Wes Welker.
I understand the point that you are trying to make, but how can the Patriots be less predictable on offense now when they basically just signed Welker Jr? He is the same type of receiver, who lives in the same types of areas on the field that Welker does.
And Jennings signing on with the Patriots, if that were to come to pass, does not, in my opinion, mean that Brady has a new security blanket. Jennings would stretch the field, cause the safeties to play back more in a 2 deep zone, leaving more space for for Hernandez and Gronkowski to do their damage.
Do you know why the Patriots offense became predictable and stalled? Because more often than not you had Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez in the same areas on multiple pass plays. If you are a defense, and you have less ground to cover in the secondary because you know your 3 main targets are going to be within 5 yards of each other, of course the defense will have a leg up.
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And I'm curious as to why a QB having a security blanket is such a bad thing.
I don't remember complaining when Joe Montana and Steve Young had Jerry Rice as their security blanket
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I'm getting a headache now.
I'm done for the night trying to figure out acmilan's preztel logic
I do love you, bro, and I love talking about the NFL with you. Certainly smarter than Rollie, that's for damn sure
Amendola is no diff than what Wes used to be before he came to the Pats - Wes became Wes after coming to the Pats with brady. Of course it is a gamble to go from the proven player onto a younger and less-rpoven alternative but they'd have to do it one day anyway.
Necessary not because of the money - actually, with the Pats not being willing to pick up Wes for such a modest contract, that should tell you something - but becasue of the "security blanket" theory. Again, for the gazillionth time - that production is there because the Brady-Welker connection was being over-used. Not saying Wes isn't a good WR, he is a great one but Brady was too settled in that comfort zone and threw way too often at him (hence Wes' amazing productivity).
Don't have to buy it - just look at their record come play-off time when naturally they'd be facing top-notch Ds - bottling it big time, with a side of some key drops by Wes to go too. And they should have never made it to that SB a year ago either.
It means Wes is being thorwn to no matter what, that's what it means ... and Yes, Lloyd's addition played a role in that too. I doubt Amendola is a like-for-like replacement - there will likely be other targets (TE, WR, passing situation RB, etc) coming in and all those throws Wes was getting, would be distributed over several people, not just Amendola - basically, ridding the O of a focal point, a point of predictability.
I am sure he'd taking his vitamins and probably does Yoga too
not bringing me down, I am actually one of those who wanted to see Wes' role diminish for "blanket" theory reasons and possibly even move on from him for good because he was always gonna be Brady's go-to guy till he was with the team. I am sure most other Pats fans are heartbroken but I assure you I am not one of them and think it's best to just move onto another SB-winning team
Necessary not because of the money - actually, with the Pats not being willing to pick up Wes for such a modest contract, that should tell you something
- but becasue of the "security blanket" theory. Again, for the gazillionth time - that production is there because the Brady-Welker connection was being over-used. Not saying Wes isn't a good WR, he is a great one but Brady was too settled in that comfort zone and threw way too often at him (hence Wes' amazing productivity).Don't have to buy it - just look at their record come play-off time when naturally they'd be facing top-notch Ds - bottling it big time, with a side of some key drops by Wes to go too. And they should have never made it to that SB a year ago either.
It means Wes is being thorwn to no matter what, that's what it means
... and Yes, Lloyd's addition played a role in that too. I doubt Amendola is a like-for-like replacement - there will likely be other targets (TE, WR, passing situation RB, etc) coming in and all those throws Wes was getting, would be distributed over several people, not just Amendola - basically, ridding the O of a focal point, a point of predictability.I am sure he'd taking his vitamins and probably does Yoga too
not bringing me down, I am actually one of those who wanted to see Wes' role diminish for "blanket" theory reasons and possibly even move on from him for good because he was always gonna be Brady's go-to guy till he was with the team. I am sure most other Pats fans are heartbroken but I assure you I am not one of them and think it's best to just move onto another SB-winning team
For the Gazillionth time, I do not buy your "Wes Welker, as Tom Brady's security blanket, has hindered the ability of the Pats offense to be unpredictable," and because I do not buy said theory, from a football standpoint I cannot see this move as necessary. Obviously, there are issues between management and Wes, which your winky face alluded to, and that's gotta be why this went down.
And as for the targets, he averaged more per game back in 2009-10, so I guess by your target theory that would mean that the Pats were even more predictable then, right? Being too predictable has been a long term issue for a team that puts up about a bazillion points a game? Could it not be that maybe the rest of the team could use some improvement? The production was there because your QB and and WR had a special bond; because when things broke down, there would be somebody there to get Tom out of trouble.
Amendola, IMO will not be that much different. Look at the targets he received in St. Louis last year, it's basically an average similar to what Wes was seeing in NE, I think they're paying him to play a similar role. Targets will likely come down some, players need to get comfortable, but I think he'll be a volume guy.
Now, for the bolded part, tell me you didn't just point your finger at the Pat's postseason issues (with a 53 man roster) on a guy who put up over 115 yards in both games last year.
Trust me Mr Sheen, no one the Pats is stupid enough to think they can just wishfully replace We's productivity and focal role on the O with a guy who's never done it before at that level and to that extent. If the Pats are willing to move on from Welker, they'd be taking precautionary measures and not just bet the season on a Danny Amendola. The Pats are just starting to move on the market and there is the draft too (a draft very deep in WR talent, mind you). I'd be shocked if the Pats didn't go for a deep threat or two, as it's becoem obvious they need to spread the field and can't rely on the short pass attack alone. And Lloyd isn't a deep threat WR anymore but more of a possession wideout.
The predictability doesn't come from the type of WR Welker is/was (and I agree that Amendola is very much like a Welker Jr). It came from the amount of throws Welker got from brady, it came from the fact that Welekr was a well-defined focal point of the attack. If one of every 2 throws by Brady went Welker's way, wouldn't say you'd have a pretty good chance of guessing right who the intended target was? Adn in crunch time, Brady would naturally go to his go-to guy even more than usual, which good defenses didn't take long to figure out and they knew that the recipe to beating the Pats was to take Welker and the shoirt pass out and hit Welker 2-3 times real hard to make him think twice and drop the ball for the rest of teh game, Pollard/Reed style and that was it.
getting someone like jennings, on those terms, would have never been an option for a team as financially prudent as the Pats. A move like that would have never been in the discussion really. Not just for #1 WR status/ego but above all for how such a contract would limit the Pats in moving on the market. As good as Jenning is, The Pats look for players who don't think they are bigger than the team (and he doesn't strike me to be that way) but also look for balance and depth throut the roster and concentrating so much money on a single player goes against that entire philosophy.
I agree with that and getting a deep threat or two would be one way to remedy that. However, you shouldn't underestimate Brady's tendency to got to his sure-thing connection (think of it) first and foremost in tense situations. I don't have the stats but human nature tell me that the more pressure there is on Brady, the more likely he was to throw it to Welker or call a play where Welker was gonna be the key player/target. It's that part that needed to change and it wouldn't have as long as Wes was on the team.
The fact they didn't pick him up on such favorable terms tell me that the Pats had diff plans for the O from now on and probably didn't see Wes as part of it (which is why they offered him a deal they knew he'd never take).
The predictability doesn't come from the type of WR Welker is/was (and I agree that Amendola is very much like a Welker Jr). It came from the amount of throws Welker got from brady, it came from the fact that Welekr was a well-defined focal point of the attack. If one of every 2 throws by Brady went Welker's way, wouldn't say you'd have a pretty good chance of guessing right who the intended target was? Adn in crunch time, Brady would naturally go to his go-to guy even more than usual, which good defenses didn't take long to figure out and they knew that the recipe to beating the Pats was to take Welker and the shoirt pass out and hit Welker 2-3 times real hard to make him think twice and drop the ball for the rest of teh game, Pollard/Reed style and that was it.
getting someone like jennings, on those terms, would have never been an option for a team as financially prudent as the Pats. A move like that would have never been in the discussion really. Not just for #1 WR status/ego but above all for how such a contract would limit the Pats in moving on the market. As good as Jenning is, The Pats look for players who don't think they are bigger than the team (and he doesn't strike me to be that way) but also look for balance and depth throut the roster and concentrating so much money on a single player goes against that entire philosophy.
I agree with that and getting a deep threat or two would be one way to remedy that. However, you shouldn't underestimate Brady's tendency to got to his sure-thing connection (think of it) first and foremost in tense situations. I don't have the stats but human nature tell me that the more pressure there is on Brady, the more likely he was to throw it to Welker or call a play where Welker was gonna be the key player/target. It's that part that needed to change and it wouldn't have as long as Wes was on the team.
The fact they didn't pick him up on such favorable terms tell me that the Pats had diff plans for the O from now on and probably didn't see Wes as part of it (which is why they offered him a deal they knew he'd never take).
And you shouldn't assume that they won't with Amendola, as he is the same type of player that Welker is.
It would make a lot more sense if they got a totally different type of receiver, more of a downfield threat to work on the perimeter instead of being in basically the same zones that Hernandez and Gronkowski will be in.
All this does is it gives the Patriots the same exact type of player, and talent for talent, the Patriots arguably got worse, while spending the same type of guaranteed money that was offered to Wes Welker.
I understand the point that you are trying to make, but how can the Patriots be less predictable on offense now when they basically just signed Welker Jr? He is the same type of receiver, who lives in the same types of areas on the field that Welker does.
And Jennings signing on with the Patriots, if that were to come to pass, does not, in my opinion, mean that Brady has a new security blanket. Jennings would stretch the field, cause the safeties to play back more in a 2 deep zone, leaving more space for for Hernandez and Gronkowski to do their damage.
Do you know why the Patriots offense became predictable and stalled? Because more often than not you had Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez in the same areas on multiple pass plays. If you are a defense, and you have less ground to cover in the secondary because you know your 3 main targets are going to be within 5 yards of each other, of course the defense will have a leg up.
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And I'm curious as to why a QB having a security blanket is such a bad thing.
I don't remember complaining when Joe Montana and Steve Young had Jerry Rice as their security blanket
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I'm getting a headache now.
I'm done for the night trying to figure out acmilan's preztel logic
I do love you, bro, and I love talking about the NFL with you. Certainly smarter than Rollie, that's for damn sure
It would make a lot more sense if they got a totally different type of receiver, more of a downfield threat to work on the perimeter instead of being in basically the same zones that Hernandez and Gronkowski will be in.
All this does is it gives the Patriots the same exact type of player, and talent for talent, the Patriots arguably got worse, while spending the same type of guaranteed money that was offered to Wes Welker.
I understand the point that you are trying to make, but how can the Patriots be less predictable on offense now when they basically just signed Welker Jr? He is the same type of receiver, who lives in the same types of areas on the field that Welker does.
And Jennings signing on with the Patriots, if that were to come to pass, does not, in my opinion, mean that Brady has a new security blanket. Jennings would stretch the field, cause the safeties to play back more in a 2 deep zone, leaving more space for for Hernandez and Gronkowski to do their damage.
Do you know why the Patriots offense became predictable and stalled? Because more often than not you had Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez in the same areas on multiple pass plays. If you are a defense, and you have less ground to cover in the secondary because you know your 3 main targets are going to be within 5 yards of each other, of course the defense will have a leg up.
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And I'm curious as to why a QB having a security blanket is such a bad thing.
I don't remember complaining when Joe Montana and Steve Young had Jerry Rice as their security blanket
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I'm getting a headache now.
I'm done for the night trying to figure out acmilan's preztel logic
I do love you, bro, and I love talking about the NFL with you. Certainly smarter than Rollie, that's for damn sure
Goodnight, brother.
For the Gazillionth time, I do not buy your "Wes Welker, as Tom Brady's security blanket, has hindered the ability of the Pats offense to be unpredictable," and because I do not buy said theory, from a football standpoint I cannot see this move as necessary. Obviously, there are issues between management and Wes, which your winky face alluded to, and that's gotta be why this went down.
And as for the targets, he averaged more per game back in 2009-10, so I guess by your target theory that would mean that the Pats were even more predictable then, right? Being too predictable has been a long term issue for a team that puts up about a bazillion points a game? Could it not be that maybe the rest of the team could use some improvement? The production was there because your QB and and WR had a special bond; because when things broke down, there would be somebody there to get Tom out of trouble.
Amendola, IMO will not be that much different. Look at the targets he received in St. Louis last year, it's basically an average similar to what Wes was seeing in NE, I think they're paying him to play a similar role. Targets will likely come down some, players need to get comfortable, but I think he'll be a volume guy.
Now, for the bolded part, tell me you didn't just point your finger at the Pat's postseason issues (with a 53 man roster) on a guy who put up over 115 yards in both games last year.
Yes the Pats would put up a lot of points during the reg season but that came usually vs shit teams with shit Ds. And then even the good teams don't play you as tough as they do in the postseason. Come play-off time, however, look at the Pats record vs good defenses - stalled vs jets, Ravens last two years and Giants last year too. Mind you - those are must win game and carry extra responsibility and fear of making a mistake than a reg season game as a blunder in a p-off game may well mean you are done. It's in such situations where Brady would be more likely to go to his security blanker aka Wes Welker and make the entire attack more predictable.
I hope you are wrong about Amendola because if he is seen as a direct replacement for Wes in the same approach on O, then letting Wes go makes no sense. I, however, doubt that's the case and think Amendola would be a very useful slot guy but no-where near the focal point of the Pats attack Wes was ... at least I hope that's the case.
Welker's productivity in any of these games - cruch-time postseason games vs tough Ds, etc - are only part of but not the whole story. He would naturally have good numbers from being targeted so frequently. The problem is that he is targeted way too often and becomes of sorts a focal point of the attack, which makes it obvious for those opposing Ds what they need to do to stop the Pats on offense - take Welker out of the game and hit him hard several times and make him lose concentration and think twice before he catches that ball. It's that "taking Brady out of trouble" idea that puts the entire team in trouble.
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yeah GQ, not the magazine, got his payday with the Lions.
hands off Reed, you fuckers, he is ours
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Woodson, iirc, but there is always the draft too - Cyprien, Elam, Reid, etc.
Pollard got released today too, so he could be an option.
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Avril to the Seahawks - 2 years 15 mil total.
Seattle are building a really good team. If Wilson continues his development into his 2nd year, Seattle and the 9ers would easily be the two top teams in the NFC, imo.
yes, thank you you said it yourself - whan things broke down, they had someone to take Tom out of trouble a.k.a. "the security blanket" theory
Yes the Pats would put up a lot of points during the reg season but that came usually vs shit teams with shit Ds. And then even the good teams don't play you as tough as they do in the postseason. Come play-off time, however, look at the Pats record vs good defenses - stalled vs jets, Ravens last two years and Giants last year too. Mind you - those are must win game and carry extra responsibility and fear of making a mistake than a reg season game as a blunder in a p-off game may well mean you are done. It's in such situations where Brady would be more likely to go to his security blanker aka Wes Welker and make the entire attack more predictable.
I hope you are wrong about Amendola because if he is seen as a direct replacement for Wes in the same approach on O, then letting Wes go makes no sense. I, however, doubt that's the case and think Amendola would be a very useful slot guy but no-where near the focal point of the Pats attack Wes was ... at least I hope that's the case.
Welker's productivity in any of these games - cruch-time postseason games vs tough Ds, etc - are only part of but not the whole story. He would naturally have good numbers from being targeted so frequently. The problem is that he is targeted way too often and becomes of sorts a focal point of the attack, which makes it obvious for those opposing Ds what they need to do to stop the Pats on offense - take Welker out of the game and hit him hard several times and make him lose concentration and think twice before he catches that ball. It's that "taking Brady out of trouble" idea that puts the entire team in trouble.
Yes the Pats would put up a lot of points during the reg season but that came usually vs shit teams with shit Ds. And then even the good teams don't play you as tough as they do in the postseason. Come play-off time, however, look at the Pats record vs good defenses - stalled vs jets, Ravens last two years and Giants last year too. Mind you - those are must win game and carry extra responsibility and fear of making a mistake than a reg season game as a blunder in a p-off game may well mean you are done. It's in such situations where Brady would be more likely to go to his security blanker aka Wes Welker and make the entire attack more predictable.
I hope you are wrong about Amendola because if he is seen as a direct replacement for Wes in the same approach on O, then letting Wes go makes no sense. I, however, doubt that's the case and think Amendola would be a very useful slot guy but no-where near the focal point of the Pats attack Wes was ... at least I hope that's the case.
Welker's productivity in any of these games - cruch-time postseason games vs tough Ds, etc - are only part of but not the whole story. He would naturally have good numbers from being targeted so frequently. The problem is that he is targeted way too often and becomes of sorts a focal point of the attack, which makes it obvious for those opposing Ds what they need to do to stop the Pats on offense - take Welker out of the game and hit him hard several times and make him lose concentration and think twice before he catches that ball. It's that "taking Brady out of trouble" idea that puts the entire team in trouble.
No, no, no...
I'm not denying Wes Welker IS a safety blanket, I'm denying that it's a problem for Tom Brady to have Wes Welker as HIS security blanket. Basically the best slot option in the league, when he needed to get it out quick, great on those screens, and an amazing understanding between the two - always seemed to be on the same page. I promise you I do understand what you're trying to say, AC. The idea that Tom occasionally looks for Wes a little too often during the big moment, that's no doubt true, but in my opinion, the positives are just well, well above the negatives. I also think that the injured TE's probably played a role in some of that predictability you feel was there during this past postseason. Guess what I'm saying, is that the predictability argument wouldn't be good enough for me to let this player go... not with the type of production that he can guarantee. And I guess we'll leave it at that for the moment..
Nice chatting with you bro, good luck in FA (well, not too good), and have a nice night.
Oh, and Salvo, it sounds like Woodson could be in play, not really sure about the other San Francisco options there. NFL.com saying that Asomugha and the 9 have mutual interest (he's a CB).
Have they lost anyone else of note besides Sapoaga and Goldson? If not, I wouldn't be too worried as long as they can get one of Delmas, Pollard or Reed to replace the former and already got that KC bust Dorsey, who with some proper coaching could become a good player at the very least. And they have like what 50 picks in the draft too? Should be able to get at least one of Cyprien, Reid, Elam, Thomas, Swearinger, etc ... maybe even two of those. Goldson was good but far from irreplaceable. Same goes for loading on DTs as an alternative to Dorsey.
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D. Cox (Chargers) and DRC (Denver) off the free-agent CB market. Landry off to the Colts on a 4-year 24 mil deal, so Serg can exhale now
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D. Cox (Chargers) and DRC (Denver) off the free-agent CB market. Landry off to the Colts on a 4-year 24 mil deal, so Serg can exhale now
At worst, Dorsey is equal to Sopoaga, and potentially could end up being better. They have one of the best DL coaches in the business. As far as Goldson is concerned, it all depends on who they replace him with. They don't need a like for like replacement, provided they can shore up the CB and pass rusher positions. I'm more concerned about those two areas of need.