Amauri "The Immovable Object" Carvalho de Oliveira (37 Viewers)

[Cronios]

A little bit of contradicting here, don't you think? And our board stated a lot of times that they won't even take in consideration selling Giovinco or De Ceglie (during the time we were negotiating with Palermo for Amauri), so your argument that our board were willing to sacrifice them is not valid.

I was here during the whole transfer saga, our board declared an intention to keep Giovinco, but not a clear intention to keep the rest. Their participation and success in a summer under 21 football competition, turned player to some ppl within our board and their will was expressed through CR's words.
Even then though our board said that Amauri is our number one priority, higher that any other player (including keeping all of our youngsters)
It seems that a pre-deal, from last season, was made between us and zampa, maybe founded by his hate on Milan and despite the fact that threating to blow this deal, zampa has finally come to an agreement.
But the threat was live and clear and it wasn not made up by the press, because those names were mentioned exclusively by the lips of the officials plotting this deal! Amauri's managers and Sicelian mafia was rumored to be involved with that transfer and they wouldnt risk to lose their cut from our cash, so that they forced Zampa to accept the deal this way. We were lucky!
If any of these circumstances were different...

some things to consider regarding the amauri transfer :

- for the money of amauri (15 m € ... you can not count the players we gave palermo into the deal, because you can not be sure that any club we would buy a player from would take those players as part of the deal) we would not have gotten a good defender that would have added to our defensive quality remarkable... if there were good defenders on the market, be sure real madrid would have gotten them and please don't anybody start with zapata and company ... that is just football manager stuff. if the club does not want to sell a player, they wont !

Why not consider them?? The deal wouldnt be completes without them! and although they were expandable players, they still hold some value, value that could have been used as a bargain chip for another transfer/transfers. Luring an udinese or napoli player for ex...

- if we did not buy amauri, he would have ended in milan .... fuck i do not want to see a milan with such creativity and a powerful beast like amauri to head in all thoses crosses ... remember the cross that ambrosini headed wide against us ? just imagine it was amauri on milans side

fair point, i ve also included that in my pro Amauri argumentation

- amauri may be a little luxury to have, BUT he added the last attitude to complete our strikeforce which makes it unpredictable, when everybody is fit. we have the small pacey tricky giovinco, we have the classy and technical del piero, we have the fast iaquinta, the deadly poaching trezeguet ... and now we have a powerfull beast that will not bounce of the defenders when he leaps into the air to head home.




next summer ... if we don't buy a defender, then i will jump on your back and lead the devastating "fuck ruinieri"-triade with you, andy and vinman ...
so please ranieri, please don't make me do that ray:

Amauri is a quality player and thankfully, his skills, luck and patience helped him to adapt in our team. He might mean the end of Treze's carrier with us, but this happen in football.
I am not against his arrival at any given time and at any given cost/sacrifice.
But we must also consider our other needs and priorities too.
Since we already made can investment on the attack (Iaquinta) we should look forward to upgrade another place next, before investing again, our whole transfer budget into another forward!
Our transfer policy makes no sense and our team isnt balanced and doesnt sound to be balanced in the future if we keep going like that.
It is not Amauri's fault and he doesnt have to do with this.
Because we made the wrong choice, it doesnt necessarily means, that he has to suck.
I never attacked Amauri personally, but the concept behind his acquisition, our lack of wisdom and vision...
We will see when Treze returns, that we will have 1 or 2 luxury subs on the bench,
even at the highest level in the CL, but our limited defense is bound to pull as back soon or later.
Because this is were our weakness lies and the greatest chances of failure tend to happen...


I ll be here to remind you this when it will happen, i only hope that we will postpone it as much as we can and it wont be as critical, as i am afraid it will be!
(on the knock out faze of CL)
But history taught that this is how things work, everybody pays for his weakness and faulty decisions...

 

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[RavaneVialli]

Ranieri also said he takes a full responsibility of choosing the midfielder we bought last summer. The board opened negotiations with Liverpool, but he chose Poulsen for his "tactical reasons" instead as it turned out later on.
I was reading the discussions here for some time and it seems to me that Cronios created his own Juventus reality based just on his own thoughts and doesn't want to admit clear contradictions, what the "yes man" myth proves. Sometimes it's necesary to admit you are wrong and change your mind rather than sticking in stubbornness, which is obvious now.

 

[The Arif]

I was here during the whole transfer saga, our board declared an intention to keep Giovinco, but not a clear intention to keep the rest. Their participation and success in a summer under 21 football competition, turned player to some ppl within our board and their will was expressed through CR's words.
Even then though our board said that Amauri is our number one priority, higher that any other player (including keeping all of our youngsters)
It seems that a pre-deal, from last season, was made between us and zampa, maybe founded by his hate on Milan and despite the fact that threating to blow this deal, zampa has finally come to an agreement.
But the threat was live and clear and it wasn not made up by the press, because those names were mentioned exclusively by the lips of the officials plotting this deal! Amauri's managers and Sicelian mafia was rumored to be involved with that transfer and they wouldnt risk to lose their cut from our cash, so that they forced Zampa to accept the deal this way. We were lucky!
If any of these circumstances were different...

Lucky us that Sicilian mafia forced Zamparini to accept the deal we were offering. Seriously man, Sicilian mafia? Can't you come up with something better?

Why not consider them?? The deal wouldnt be completes without them! and although they were expandable players, they still hold some value, value that could have been used as a bargain chip for another transfer/transfers. Luring an udinese or napoli player for ex...

How can you lure a player the club doesn't have the slightest intention of selling? This is not football manager, and things aren't as easy as you make them.

 

[Alen]

Amauri's managers and Sicelian mafia was rumored to be involved with that transfer and they wouldnt risk to lose their cut from our cash, so that they forced Zampa to accept the deal this way. We were lucky!
If any of these circumstances were different...

You're pure gold, Cron

 

[Enoran]

- if we did not buy amauri, he would have ended in milan .... fuck i do not want to see a milan with such creativity and a powerful beast like amauri to head in all thoses crosses ... remember the cross that ambrosini headed wide against us ? just imagine it was amauri on milans side

Yes ...
Amauri with Kaka, there will be an awful combination from Juve fan's perspective

 

[Alen]

Arif, do you live on George Bush street in Pristina?

 

[Dostoevsky]

Well I am around Cronios but usually just in transfer section.

There's not much to argue about with your latest post.I see your point and I agree with the most you said.

We both agree we need quality and not decent players but I just say we won't see any of them here till summer.I hope Chiellini doesn't get some injury but seeing Legro-Mellberg partnership wouldn't be that bad.It's obvious we'd miss Chiellini but I think those two could cover it if it's not some long-term solution.

Yeah like I said,we need many spots to cover and it will not be easy.

If we sell Trez I don't think we'd splash it on someone like Benzema(even if I'd like to see him playing for Juve ) but maybe we would buy someone like Milito?So we'd have Del Piero(Giovinco)-Amauri(Milito/Iaquinta) parnership which wouldn't be bad.So that way we'd be ready to spash more on Nedved's succesor or some defender.Of course I am speaking out of my ass but I say I wouldn't be surprised if we make some move like that.This leads off-topic but whatever

Nedved's replacement will be hard to find.There are not many players like him and there are not many players available on that position overall.Bastian deal vanished so we could go after Capel(I doubt we will though),Malouda(depends if Chealse wants huge amout for him or not)and maybe Zhirkov.I think we'll use De Ceglie more as AML but I don't think he's going to be a direct replacement.

Our DM/MC spots are pretty much covered for the next season as well unless we are thinking to sell Diego and get rid of Zanetti.If we're planning to sell Iaquinta we'll probably see us offering :money: + him for Aquilani.I know we don't have high chances signing someone like him (romanista) but we will try.Even though I like him I would avoid him.He's great and everything but injury prone sadly.Also,I think Ranieri would like to have him in his disposal since it's pretty much what he wants.

So we're avoiding LB spot.

Well we need a RB aswell don't we...Grygera can do as a back up and Zebina is always injured.Maybe we're planning to buy Gallas and play him there?Out of that I don't see many options and it looks like we aren't looking for anyone right now.Personally I'd try to sign Ivanovic and cover both CB and RB shot.That way we'd save some :money:

Camo seems to be a new Tudor.Sadly,such a great player.Marchionni was pretty bad so far and I wouldn't like us to see him as a long term solution.Sali can't offer much more so we could use someone capable to replace Camo and not be expesive.Up to our scouts to dig up someone I guess.

As for CB I don't see many options available.Juan has a realse clause at Roma I think but I doubt he'd want to leave but we should still consider him.There's Marquez and Zapata if he's ready to leave Udine.But I don't know about our budget so I can't go through top club defensive players.

So we need many new players if you look so that's why I said it'll be hard to decide who and for how much to buy and who to sell.

IMO it would be nice if we buy some AMR who can play instead of Marchionni but not be too expensive.It would make summers market easier at least.One position less to worry about and it's the only place where we don't someone really good out of menioned.

 

[Cronios]

Oh, please. You said that he's a yes man that does everything the board asks for. Then you said that it was CR's intervention that prevented our youngsters' sale. How is that not a contradiction? Ranieri had a lot to say on our transfers, so therefore he isn't just a yes man.

I explained in a post above my view on the matter and i repeat;

In the case of a transfer failure and to release our transfer managers from some of the pressure. CR has always been repeating that he has faith in our youngsters and any other player, being in the property of Juventus.
He even said that for Nocerino, but we finally got to offload him!
His stance on the amauri was hesitant, he was simply waiting for orders!
Only after Giovinco and the rest proved themselves with some great performance and aspired the admiration of foreign coaches and less relevant ppl within our board.
Only then CR voiced his "opinion" !!
If it was his opinion from the start, he would have instisted from the start, like i did!

He only voiced his opinion because he knew that some of our board supports him.
That probably indicates that he was probably instructed to do so.
More details come out by the years, we learn enough to confirm this a few year from now and esp after his department!

His stance at every and each other matter within our squad clearly indicates tha he is nothing but a pawn anyway!
The circumstances of his arrival are a clear indicator too...

Because i wont to be fair and only because i wont to demonstrate that i dont have anything personal against him, i will also give you another argument to his favor.
The acquisition of Sissoko. CR has worked in the EPL,he likes young players, he wanted a strong double DM line to cover up for our weak defensive line, he knew and valued Sissoko.
And he was probably the reason we decided to spent an uncharacteristic sum, during our previous transfer window, to wash away the humilation made by our pathetic summer transfer choices...

Our transfer managers were in shock, humiliated by the press and they might turned into CR to make a decision and take the blame, if anything goes wrong...

Thankfully his exp has been proved much much more valuable that their pathetic managerial skills and collective intelligence, put together!! In both occasions!

Shame that Juve has to rely in a such a low life management to keep it together.

And i also want to remind one thing, even if a transfer seems successful for the time being,
it doesnt mean that it will as wise as it looks now, in the long run!!
Changing condition might affect a bold move positively for a short time, but when the odds are against you, there is always a disaster waiting to happen at the corner!!
These managerial choices require an extreme amount of caution, wisdom (obtain by exp) and a great sense of responsibility.
We are juventus, we are competing at the highest level. Good is not enough, we must seek perfection.
"Good enough" some times is far far away from "as good as it can get"

Our opponents form might be deceiving, but we can always compare this Juve to the old ones...the nearly perfect ones.
The ones that used to set the standards, this is where we should aim for!

 

[Cronios]

Ranieri also said he takes a full responsibility of choosing the midfielder we bought last summer. The board opened negotiations with Liverpool, but he chose Poulsen for his "tactical reasons" instead as it turned out later on.
I was reading the discussions here for some time and it seems to me that Cronios created his own Juventus reality based just on his own thoughts and doesn't want to admit clear contradictions, what the "yes man" myth proves. Sometimes it's necesary to admit you are wrong and change your mind rather than sticking in stubbornness, which is obvious now.

It is always easy to jump on the fools bandwagon, but time will come to eat your words,
history proved me rights too many times and it will prove me right again on the future. But when it does most of the posters like you mysteriously disappear!
I have a history in this forum and i take a full responsibility of what i say.
We will see if you past the test of time, but trying to discredit me like that only proves smth about you...

Lucky us that Sicilian mafia forced Zamparini to accept the deal we were offering. Seriously man, Sicilian mafia? Can't you come up with something better?

These are not my thoughts, not even my words, these were written in the press, ask any Italian calcio fan you know to confirm them, or search this and gsol's forum more carefully...

How can you lure a player the club doesn't have the slightest intention of selling? This is not football manager, and things aren't as easy as you make them.

With money!!! and we dont have to buy this certain player we have in mind.
If we were really interested to find one and a bit less busy to fine tune our forward line, we could easily find many many players to choose from.
With Noce and 10mil at hand, i am sue that we can attract many quality defenders, that could have easily been an upgrade in our current defensive line...

Well I am around Cronios but usually just in transfer section.

There's not much to argue about with your latest post.I see your point and I agree with most you said.

We both agree we need quality and not decent players but I just say we won't see any of them here till summer.I hope Chiellini doesn't get some injury but seeing Legro-Mellberg partnership wouldn't be that bad.It's obvious we'd miss Chiellini but I think those two could cover it if it's not some long-term solution.

Yeah like I said,we need many spots to cover and it will not be easy.

If we sell Trez I don't think we'd splash it on someone like Benzema(even if I'd like to see him playing for Juve ) but maybe we would buy someone like Milito?So we'd have Del Piero(Giovinco)-Amauri(Milito/Iaquinta) parnership which wouldn't be bad.So that way we'd be ready to spash more on Nedved's succesor or some defender.Of course I am speaking out of my ass but I say I wouldn't be surprised if we make some move like that.This leads off-topic but whatever

Nedved's replacement will be hard to find.There are not many players like him and there are not many players available on that position overall.Bastian deal vanished so we could go after Capel(I doubt we will though),Malouda(depends if Chealse wants huge amout for him or not)and maybe Zhirkov.I think we'll use De Ceglie more as AML but I don't think he's going to be a direct replacement.

Our DM/MC spots are pretty much covered for the next season as well unless we are thinking to sell Diego and get rid of Zanetti.If we're planning to sell Iaquinta we'll probably see us offering :money: + him for Aquilani.I know we don't have high chances signing someone like him (romanista) but we will try.Even though I like him I would avoid him.He's great and everything but injury prone sadly.Also,I think Ranieri would like to have him in his disposal since it's pretty much what he wants.

So we're avoiding LB spot.

Well we need a RB aswell don't we...Grygera can do as a back up and Zebina is always injured.Maybe we're planning to buy Gallas and play him there?Out of that I don't see many options and it looks like we aren't looking for anyone right now.Personally I'd try to sign Ivanovic and cover both CB and RB shot.That way we'd save some :money:

Camo seems to be a new Tudor.Sadly,such a great player.Marchionni was pretty bad so far and I wouldn't like us to see him as a long term solution.Sali can't offer much more so we could use someone capable to replace Camo and not be expesive.Up to our scouts to dig up someone I guess.

As for CB I don't see many options available.Juan has a realse clause at Roma I think but I doubt he'd want to leave but we should still consider him.There's Marquez and Zapata if he's ready to leave Udine.But I don't know about our budget so I can't go through top club defensive players.

So we need many new players if you look so that's why I said it'll be hard to decide who and for how much to buy and who to sell.

IMO it would be nice if we buy some AMR who can play instead of Marchionni but not be too expensive.It would make summers market easier at least.One position less to worry about and it's the only place where we don't someone really good out of menioned.

Yes, but i am only afraid this moment will never happen, we dont seem to show any intention to upgrade our defense. I have being waiting for our board to balance our team, since the day we got Boumsong and i have yet seen none of it,
srry that i ve already lost faith to them, but everything i have foreseen, against them, has been materialized.
I was afraid that we wont invest money, before our champions start to retire and it already happened, i was afraid that we wont afraid money in our back-line, because we only seek more income, not balance and the the sacrifices we have to make to win any titles.

And here we are building a team based on Molinaro's, Poulsens and Legro's with the added fancy addition of Amauri to fool the fans with his dribbling/scoring and keep them appeased...
These are the signs i red since this management took over.
And i felt the obligation to warn my brother-Juventini, but many of them they only respond with sarcasm, founded by innocent but foolish/dreamers hopes...

And now my brothers excuse me.
It is my name day and i have some quests to honor...
Ive stated my opinion with argumentation, i ve been always accused of repeating the same things, when i am right, but to keep things interesting, i ve been always repeat them, even when the wind blows the other way...
It is my obligation and my role in this forum and i seek no personal dispute...

 

[Alen]

And now my brothers excuse me.
It is my name day and i have some quests to honor...

Christos? Is that your name?
Have a great time.

 

[The Arif]

Arif, do you live on George Bush street in Pristina?

Lol, no. I don't recall having a GB street here. We have a Clinton boulevard though.

 

[RavaneVialli]

It is always easy to jump on the fools bandwagon, but time will come to eat your words,
history proved me rights too many times and it will prove me right again on the future. But when it does most of the posters like you mysteriously disappear!
I have a history in this forum and i take a full responsibility of what i say.
We will see if you past the test of time, but trying to discredit me like that only proves smth about you...

I am not trying to discredit you, especially when your own words, which make some of members (who like you have a history on this forum) laughing. I'm just a spectator of the discussion presenting my observations, usually I don't do it due to lack of time (I'm studying the same you did, so I assume you understand) but first stating Ranieri is a "yes man" who does everything board wants, then saying he prevented board from some transactions and now that he even somehow took control over them because board was "humiliated by Italian media" after their first mercato and all that because "Ranieri is a contradicted person" isn't even funny, it's like fables created by you just to write something and build a reputation on this forum through lenght of your essays but not because of their sense.

As for -rep I received from you, don't know why, because I'm not offensive or coarse towards you and so aren't you, so I won't do the same. But still I can't figure out why do you suggest me to "marry x-mas" in that comment?

 

[The Arif]

These are not my thoughts, not even my words, these were written in the press, ask any Italian calcio fan you know to confirm them, or search this and gsol's forum more carefully...

And why did you mention it as a part of argument? Even in your last post you said that it was rumoured that Sicilian mafia intervened in Amauri deal (which I find it hillarious btw). Why do you keep mentioning these rumours which even you don't know if they are true or not.

With money!!! and we dont have to buy this certain player we have in mind.
If we were really interested to find one and a bit less busy to fine tune our forward line, we could easily find many many players to choose from.
With Noce and 10mil at hand, i am sue that we can attract many quality defenders, that could have easily been an upgrade in our current defensive line...

Money is not an issue here. You mentioned Udinese (Zapata, Felipe?) and Napoli (Hamsik, Lavezzi) as clubs we could've gotten some players from, but both transfer directors of these club mentioned a several times that their key players are not for sale at any price. So explain it to me, you, the God of transfer directors, how could've we gotten these players with money? Spending crazy sums on some promising players just because the club is reluctant to sell them?

 

[Alen]

Lol, no. I don't recall having a GB street here. We have a Clinton boulevard though.

You didn't hear the news?
As of today you officially have a George Bush street in Pristina.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081224144851.mzptko0i&show_article=1

 

[v1rtu4l]

With Noce and 10mil at hand, i am sue that we can attract many quality defenders, that could have easily been an upgrade in our current defensive line...

this is really a problem. i am really sorry to mention it again, but if there weren't those football manager games around (which i'm sure everyone here had played once at least) you would not think that this is so easy.

do you remember the deal that moggi is said to have arranged for c. ronaldo to come to juve ? it is said that salas did not want to be sold and so the deal fall through.

another case was tiago. did you already forget how many times tiago did refuse to be sold ?

so judging by your logic, the english clubs or atletico madrid or whoever was interested would have it easy aquiring him. but even with us wanting to sell, it was impossible to do.

do you really think if we buy someone from another league, we could have given nocerino as part of the deal ?

firstly) he would not have wanted to leave his home country
second) noone outside italy would have either known nor rated him

it is really only in manager games that you can calculate the success of a transfer deal by simple player values.

 

[The Arif]

You didn't hear the news?
As of today you officially have a George Bush street in Pristina.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081224144851.mzptko0i&show_article=1

Funny. I haven't heard about this though. First Clinton, now Bush? Our goverment should start a project to name a street after Obama when his presidency ends. I don't blame our goverment though. Americans have done so much for us, so this is just a small way to thank them. And this new GB street is close to where I live. I live in Mother Teresa thoroughfare.

 

[v1rtu4l]

Money is not an issue here. You mentioned Udinese (Zapata, Felipe?) and Napoli (Hamsik, Lavezzi) as clubs we could've gotten some players from, but both transfer directors of these club mentioned a several times that their key players are not for sale at any price. So explain it to me, you, the God of transfer directors, how could've we gotten these players with money? Spending crazy sums on some promising players just because the club is reluctant to sell them?

i think he might be thinking about something like this ...

 

[Lion]

you know people are grasping at straws when they are trying to discredit the serie A signing of the season.

fuck whatever we paid for Amauri (which if you think about it, is not much anyway)

look at how many goals he's scored, his workmate, and how many times he's allowed us to win games (Lecce, Torino, Madrid home match come to mind)

and yet people are trying to say he was not needed.

Amauri's goals and wok rate have made Trez's absence minimal. At the same time, his goals are the reason we are still contending for Serie A.

he's our top scorer so far, and he's played the most minutes so far, that alone discredits any claim of "we didn't need Amauri"

 

[Ahmed]

Believe me I won't. As much as I like amauri, I pray a brazilian never scores a crucial game winning goal to help the azzurri. If we end up winning the game I'll cheer because of the result, but not for amauri's goal. I'm not going to stop supporting the azzurri just because I don't agree with who they call up. If that was the case I would've stopped cheering for them a long time ago.....

fair enough...what do you feel about Argentinians who abandon their homeland and play for the Azzurri?

 

[Osman]

Cronios, you are an absolute treasure. The way you try to bounce back from any scenario just so you can justify the same position you have had on certain things, regardless of how insanely contradicting it is of something you said 2 minutes ago, is ABSOLUTELY priceless, keep doing what your doing