Amauri "The Immovable Object" Carvalho de Oliveira (44 Viewers)

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Doc, in what case you'll be wrong?
You shared your thoughts with us about way too many things. Transfers, team policy, squad selection, the coach, situation in calcio in general etc.
So i wonder how can Secco prove you wrong? What does he need to do to prove you wrong?

I know that you love the team very much and you actually want to be proven wrong, but i wonder how exactly can it be done. Winning serie A and CL? Winning the 2nd place? Making it to the 1/4, 1/2, final of CL? Buying this or that player? Giving more freedom to Ranieri? Replacing Ranieri with another coach? Buying prospective players that will be part of a great Juve after 2,3,4 years?
Winning titles is far a more complicated thing, it involves far too many factors to be a man's fault. I cannot and i will not accuse or a praise a single person for that.
However, a single man can harm is, in a such a decisive way, that could be eventually proved enough to compromise our entire teams efforts and set a maximum limit to our chances/hopes.
The transfer director and the coach, are empowered enough and their decision affects the performance of our entire team. They set the standards and they bound our team's limits.
The transfer director with the "tools/players" he is providing for our team, by the allocation of our available funds and the coach who is charged with our overall management of the team and esp our tactical decisions.
In same cases the coaches have the authority to control directly or indirectly, ur strategical plans/decisions.

There lies a great responsibility!! In a such a prestigious club like Juve, this person should face extreme competition and should consider many more factors than any other person assigned in a similar role into a smaller team.
This task is extremely difficult, even for the proven and exp managers, let alone inexperienced and incompetent caricatures like Secco...
Furthermore, juve has reached a critical point in her history, we have faced extinction.
At the Moggi era, the only thing that kept us competitive was the high standards and the exceptional management! This efficient management allowed us to compete with the best, most prestigious/powerful/experienced and successful clubs in the world, despite the lack of investment.
Players and managers have come and gone, but our main characteristic, our core, our power has always been this efficiency!!

The crisis forced us to find some quick fixes, even for that critical positions!
The Agnelli have chosen to keep the club and they announced that they are determined fix this, because they feel the obligation to do this.
truth or not, this is supposed to be our goal.

At that moment, we were heavily injured, both a great proportion of our players and most of our managers were forced to leave us!
In this delicate moment, of rebuilding our team, with the very limited resources the Agnelii family, has apparently put in our disposal.
We ought to be clinical, to our decisions. Anything less than perfect does not apply, we compete with the best and to catch up with them, we have to be even better than their nearly perfect management, otherwise the gap between us will keep increasing and we will never reach back were we belong!

We need managers with a vision, with a solid plan and the guts to apply it!
I dont care about titles, i am very pleased with our performances so far,
this is not what worries me the most, but the overall quality of our team,
our future plans, the direction our team is heading and the speed and the efficiency we use to reach there!

No matter the path we choose to reach our goals, above all, i need to see efficiency and so far this is exactly what we missed!!!
We wasted valuable time and resources and instead of making those leaps forward, we made one step backward and a swift, careless step forward to compensate, without thinking about the big picture, but only to provide some quick fixes and a false sense of security!

About Secco, with players like Almiron, Tiago, Poulsen, Molinaro, Iaquinta, Boumsong, Mellberg, Salih etc as starters we have no future in the highest competitions!!!
With the wasted amount to get those losers, we could have bought 2-3 more players like Amauri and Sissoko.
We collected all this junk without thinking ahead, in the near future, where our champions will start retiring one by one. Without our champions to make the difference, this junk will only force us to invest even more money, we dont have.
Without this investment, our team will be crippled when they will retire and further more boosting with such quality will not help.

Last year we had many excuses (lame or not) and the majority of our managers calls were all proved mistaken, it is only be pure luck our opponents sucked so much to allow our remaining champions to compensate for the lack of quality within our team and allow us to finish in a very good position, a position which only flatters our teams quality...
But this year, our managers didnt hesitate at all, the repeated the same mistakes, proving my worst fears about their intentions, their vision, their planification, their efficiency. what will happen in the end is another issue,
their choices are already made, our team is limited, material/quality wise,
when we should be making those quality leaps forward.
At the mean time, our opponents have upgraded their teams and they will keep going forward, using our superior resources, political power and experience,
if necessary.
If their team does not perform according to the high standards of their quality, they have the option to further boost it with other means.

But we dont have this choice, we only have one chance and we have to make it count!!! We cannot always base on luck and hoping that the performances of our players will exceed the performances of their superior!

We must be extra efficient and we must slowly start to cropping the gap between us. This is our transfer's managers responsibility, no more and no less!
I dont demand results from Secco, i only demand a wise allocation of our funds!!
We will never get back the money we wasted on Andrade, Tiago and Almiron, this is a whole year wasted there, a whole transfer budget, he should do miracles to recover them. And what did he do?? He brought two limited/unreliable squad players and wasted the majority of our transfer budget to a luxury sub or a new starter who will force one of our champion into a sub...
So we wasted two summer transfer budget and we made no real additions to our team. where is the efficiency?? Where is the vision???
With the available resources, our team could have bought 3-4 reliable starters by now. And with an extra efficient manager, 4-5 and the same amount of squad players, only by efficiently trading the hundred contracts we still detain and the 4-5 players Secco released for free...

To sum up what i want to see from Secco:

-Efficiency
-Vision
-Quality and not quantity improvement of our team
-Balance
-A deal that would bring us some income
-Less pawing by Fiorentina
-More respect to the contracts we own
-Respect to our limited resources
-Take advantage of the prestige our colors confer
-Being more receptive to the advices of the exp managers within our team
-Learn form his mistakes
 

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Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
Cronios,

I fail to see why you are still pushing the 'lucky our opponents were rubbish' and the whole inferior to Fiorentina thing.

I just cannot see the logic behind those points.
 

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
125,366
@ Cronios,

you keep going on about you know our future and it looks bad...well let me tell you about the PRESENT:

1 - We are very much in the Scudetto race, only 6 points behind Inter

2 - We topped our CL group convincingly and are now playing against Chelsea in the biggest match of the Champions League knockout stage

3 - Since Ranieri became Coach, we have scored the most goals amongst Italian teams (102 goals, 2 more than Inter)

4 - Last year and again this season, we have the 2nd best defence in Italy

5 - We have concentrated more on the Juventus youth policy and whenever called for duty, the youngsters have performed extremely well

6 - Ranieri has found Chiellini's best position and he is now rightly considered one of the best CBs in the world

7 - Ranieri has rediscovered Nicola Legrottaglie, so long a flop but now a key member of Juventus

8 - Against the remaining big 3 of Italy , our record is 5 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats (1 in Coppa)...

9 - And Molinaro? he is our most improved player this season and deservedly has the LB starting spot

10 - Secco? has had his questionable signings (Andrade Almiron) but has on the majority greatly increased the depth and quality of a squad decimated by Calciopoli
I know someone who will not like this post at all.
 

Badass J Elkann

It's time to go!!
Feb 12, 2006
68,899
@ Cronios,

you keep going on about you know our future and it looks bad...well let me tell you about the PRESENT:

1 - We are very much in the Scudetto race, only 6 points behind Inter

2 - We topped our CL group convincingly and are now playing against Chelsea in the biggest match of the Champions League knockout stage

3 - Since Ranieri became Coach, we have scored the most goals amongst Italian teams (102 goals, 2 more than Inter)

4 - Last year and again this season, we have the 2nd best defence in Italy

5 - We have concentrated more on the Juventus youth policy and whenever called for duty, the youngsters have performed extremely well

6 - Ranieri has found Chiellini's best position and he is now rightly considered one of the best CBs in the world

7 - Ranieri has rediscovered Nicola Legrottaglie, so long a flop but now a key member of Juventus

8 - Against the remaining big 3 of Italy , our record is 5 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats (1 in Coppa)...

9 - And Molinaro? he is our most improved player this season and deservedly has the LB starting spot

10 - Secco? has had his questionable signings (Andrade Almiron) but has on the majority greatly increased the depth and quality of a squad decimated by Calciopoli

point 6 - didi found chiellini's best position, ranieri simply followed the trend, otherwise im pretty sure chiellini would still be playing left back
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,617
OMG Cronios!! Many times in my life i have played for 10, 11, 12 hours in one day on my computer but i have to admit that i have never gotten a headache like the one i got from reading your post!!...........ah, fuck, there it goes my eyes started to bleed. I knew i shouldn have read it all!!
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
@ Cronios,

you keep going on about you know our future and it looks bad...well let me tell you about the PRESENT:

1 - We are very much in the Scudetto race, only 6 points behind Inter

2 - We topped our CL group convincingly and are now playing against Chelsea in the biggest match of the Champions League knockout stage

3 - Since Ranieri became Coach, we have scored the most goals amongst Italian teams (102 goals, 2 more than Inter)

4 - Last year and again this season, we have the 2nd best defence in Italy

5 - We have concentrated more on the Juventus youth policy and whenever called for duty, the youngsters have performed extremely well

6 - Ranieri has found Chiellini's best position and he is now rightly considered one of the best CBs in the world

7 - Ranieri has rediscovered Nicola Legrottaglie, so long a flop but now a key member of Juventus

8 - Against the remaining big 3 of Italy , our record is 5 wins, 4 draws and 2 defeats (1 in Coppa)...

9 - And Molinaro? he is our most improved player this season and deservedly has the LB starting spot

10 - Secco? has had his questionable signings (Andrade Almiron) but has on the majority greatly increased the depth and quality of a squad decimated by Calciopoli
1. I dont care and i dont blame about this scuddeto race, we never had the chance to win this available material and the available resources to upgrade it.
But we havent upgraded enough to make this a realistic target after a years upgrade from now. And that means we have fallen behind...
I ll be very pleased with the second place and despite what Secco and CR said,
i dont believe that we added enough material to do the step forward material wise and claim a better place that the one we got last year. So, i expect us to rank 3rd, if Milan wont suck again...

2.We have done our duty in the CL, actually much more than that. I am already pleased with the result!! And if we were lucky with the draw, we had the chance to go even further. A couple of champions and proper defense could give us more chances in the knock outs, because not every time the better team (quality wise) wins there. With such a vulnerable defense, our chances versus powerful teams like Chelsea,have been decreased dramatically.
If we are disqualified by this very reason, the blame goes to our managers.
If we are disqualified by our overall performance, the blame goes to our coach.
If we are disqualified by an individual mistake, the blame goes to the player.
If we qualify, the blame goes to our opponents for not making a good use of the superiority... our players and coach should be praised for their heroic performance of beating despite the odds, but our managers fault remains, because they could have done better and giving us even more chances, by providing us with better tools!

3. Numbers are not always telling the truth, we have 2-3 champions in our forward line and that wasnt our main issue, last year our issues were our creativity issues in the midfield and the lack of quality in our defense.
We were forced to use 2 DMs to compensate. We upgraded none and we chose to repeat the same mistakes by adding a new medium DM in our squad.
The mistake is already made, it is only by Gods will that both Zanetti and Poulsen were injured and tied CR's hands, forcing him to use CMs (Tiago and Marchisio) to end our crisis.
This is why the temporal results deceive and tell little of our vision and our strategical plans!!
If given the chance, CR would keep repeating the same mistake and we cant base on luck for ever, he will ask for a new Poulsen next year, what are the chances of him getting injured again??

4.That doesnt mean that we have the second best defense though (quality wise)
I trust you know our players individually and you can compare their value and skills to some other players we used to have!!
These are the standards Juve were supposed to aim for!!
We cannot reach that quality standards with the current crop...
We will have to compromise smth, our tactical choices and abilities to react at our enemies plans are greatly reduced! And this is a fact that one seasons statistic numbers cant tell...

5. I am not so convinced of this, we paid like respect to the contracts we used t own, we released lots of contracts of young players since Secco came.
We were one step close to sacrifice all or a part of the current crop we currently use, probably the most promising crop of the decade. Our opponents and their performances had to convince us for their abilities.
And we must also consider the fact that our management favored them, not because that they really trust them, but because they were cheap, young and Italian. They inherited those youngsters from our previous management, we will see if they are capable of actively helping Juve, providing a new one for the future...

6.Chiellini would have been world class as LB, we cant tell if he could have been ever better there. The need of our team and the need of the Italian NT, (where he was first used as a CB) forced us to use him there. And Chiellini adapted to the role. But that doenst chances 2 facts.
1- he was and still is our best defender, we have done little to boost our defense with similar material or even better
2- we had to use them as CB, only because we werent prude enough to balance our team and have a proper coverage for that position. If Chiellini wasnt that exceptional and couldnt cope with that role, that would be a total failure!

7. He was cheap (already owned) and Italian, the yes man had no choice,
CB become better as they grow past 30, we have seen hundreds examples by the ages and it is only logical, because for this particular position, more than any place on the field, experience is more important than physical situation.
And again, we took another risk, what if Legro's enhanced exp wouldnt being proved enough to cope?? We had no real alternative or coverage.
What if he would get injured or suspended??
Even with at the best case scenario, Legro is only that good, he is at his best, but is a limited player, his age wont allow him to improve any further and he will eventually grow old enough to be nothing more than a sub.
I took almost a year for our managers to sense the immediate need for a decent replacement and what they brought was a player, not any better or younger than him. Again only thinking about a cheap quick fix and without a vision for the future...

8. The descent in hell provide us with the extra determination to win more of those prestige derbies. But that doesnt prove that we are better than them.
This year for ex, when Inter really need to get those points, they won their game, without a sweat, they only did their duty and exploited their superior quality and our weakness, in our pathetic defense, a weakness that will always become an issue when we will play against at the highest competition versus complete teams.
Our team is unbalanced, we have a black whole of quality there, our opponents see and do their best to take advantage of it. Our other lines will try to compensate and assist them as best as they can, but that would only undermine their work and role, giving even more chances to our adversaries to dominate.

9. He really is very improved, but despite reaching the maximum of his abilities he is still one dimensional, still unable to provide a proper cross and clinical tackle. Our tactical choices are still crippled because of his incompetence.
I agree that he has improved and he no longer represent s the threat he represented last year, making a bearable squad player atm.
BUT this also consists of a great threat to our future plans, this will further increase the levels of tolerance to half crippled players. The need to improve our team will be masked, our unwilling ti invest owners will slip away a few more seasons. Future errors by Molinaro will be forgotten by the hope of further improvement. And a last but very important issue, we will waste a great deal of season, investing into training and upkeep-ing a player with extremely limited skills instead of another, more promising player. Someone, who is worthy of our time. Someone able to improve enough, to become an active member of a squad of champions, the squad we are supposedly are building.
Limited players like Molinaro in our starting squad, only prove that we are moving away from that plan. We are not building a team of champions, with top class individuals and no real weaknesses, we are building an average joe team, with a abusive addition of a few retiring champions, inherited by a former champion team, who is slowly turning into a ghost...

10. He have spent millions over millions to increase the depth of our team.
Even you could do that. The players we bought were over-payed.
Secco only used the money the Agnelli family provided, he made none of his own, using his skills or the dominant position, of representing one of the top clubs of the world.
He created nothing, he only spent the money other provided for him.
And he was proven extremely inefficient and this is what matters the most in his place, this is what we should calculate when comparing him, to other sporting directors! He wasted an enormous time and resources of our club. The Agnelli family only made available only once in a lifetime, because of the certain and exceptional circumstances. Secco only did as bad as it was possible/allowed to do.

At the best case scenario we may only hope that he will do his job and sell Tiago or Almiron for a decent price, way bellow the price he bought them for and hopefully that he will not overpay, the players who will acquire...
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
53,894
If you think that the member will say something smart or informative, then there shouldn't be a difference if he writes 1 line or 1000 lines. Actually, you should be happy he/she wrote a longer post.
If you don't value that member's opinion, then again 1 line or 1000 lines should make no difference because you will scroll down in both cases.

Don't act childish and if you don't have something smart to add to his post then don't reply at all.

Yes, i'm talking to you, peasant!
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,617
Yes, there is a difference Alen!! Its not about whether or not his oppinion is accepted but when it is writen in 1000 lines the point is lost and the reading of his oppinion is faaaar more difficult then if it is put in 10-15 lines!!
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
53,894
Yes, there is a difference Alen!! Its not about whether or not his oppinion is accepted but when it is writen in 1000 lines the point is lost and the reading of his oppinion is faaaar more difficult then if it is put in 10-15 lines!!
Many people can't do that. They need more space and more words to make their point.
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
Yes, there is a difference Alen!! Its not about whether or not his oppinion is accepted but when it is writen in 1000 lines the point is lost and the reading of his oppinion is faaaar more difficult then if it is put in 10-15 lines!!
Filip if it is a good point and a telling one, then I will read every single word Cronios says...unfortunately, that is not the case...instead of giving credit where it is due, he will respond with something like 'we will see' or 'Ranieri did not have a choice' or 'it is because of 2-3 players'

Juve players themselves are extremely proud of the unity in the group and always mention that the team is the reason behind our success/good performances...unfortunately Cronios can only see the negative side of even the best situation
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,617
Filip if it is a good point and a telling one, then I will read every single word Cronios says...unfortunately, that is not the case...instead of giving credit where it is due, he will respond with something like 'we will see' or 'Ranieri did not have a choice' or 'it is because of 2-3 players'

Juve players themselves are extremely proud of the unity in the group and always mention that the team is the reason behind our success/good performances...unfortunately Cronios can only see the negative side of even the best situation
I didnt say that i didnt read his post! I read them whole. But the point is, like you said, that our (Juves) position is great and there is nothing to talk about. But if someone keeps on going about how everything sucks and how we are all fu**ed then it makes you wonder if he is for real or if he is intentionally and deliberatly doing this.
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
lol, I am not saying anything to you about why you didn't read it...I only scan through it myself most of the time

and I agree about the rest :)
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,617
Many people can't do that. They need more space and more words to make their point.
Ok, after all i dont care. I am not obliged to read them. But the problem is not the one that you stated. There is a personal war between him and couple of the forum members. I am still a newbie compared to you all but i can see that, that is the problem here!
 

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