Alessandro Matri - ST - Cagliari (2 Viewers)
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Reread my post. I said even Pazzini, and I am going throw Borriello in the mix, which implies that they are just in there to make up the numbers and be looked upon as 3rd or 4th choice. In that respect, I have no problems with them being here, as they are not the type of caliber strikers that should be starting for the "Real Juventus" not these "provincial impostors" we have become.
Look at the Juventus teams of the past and see who we had starting for us, and even who was sitting on our bench, and let's see if Pazzini or Borriello would have been considered regulars for us back then, and if it would have been conceivable for us to even consider someone like Matri. In the past, this type of player's best chance of a whiff of a Juve shirt would be when he was being marked by one of our defenders.
Look at the Juventus teams of the past and see who we had starting for us, and even who was sitting on our bench, and let's see if Pazzini or Borriello would have been considered regulars for us back then, and if it would have been conceivable for us to even consider someone like Matri. In the past, this type of player's best chance of a whiff of a Juve shirt would be when he was being marked by one of our defenders.
Pazzini and Borriello are not good enough to start for Juventus, but they are good enough for the bench.
Italy lacks talent; that is a fact. The national team has been a joke for 2 years now. I don't see how you can argue with the obvious. If you somehow fail to see that the talent pool in Italy is thin, then you are obviously delusional and oblivious to simple truths.
Italy lacks talent; that is a fact. The national team has been a joke for 2 years now. I don't see how you can argue with the obvious. If you somehow fail to see that the talent pool in Italy is thin, then you are obviously delusional and oblivious to simple truths.
No, you need to look at the context.
Buying Zalayeta can be good in some circumstances and bad in others. When you have Zlatan, Trez and Del Piero in attack paying 2m eur for Zalayeta to be the 4th striker is good. When you have Amauri, Iaquinta and Toni in attack paying +10m eur for Zalayeta to be your main striker isn't good.
So, we have Melo, Aquilani and Marchisio in midfield and decide to sell Sissoko. Buying Rakitic for 1.5m eur is attractive transfer. You have Blasi and Nocerino in midfield buying Rakitic for +10m eur to be your main CM is bad.
We get to the Italians this way, in this case Matri. Noone will complain if we have three good strikers and we add Matri as a 4th choice. People don't like it if we buy him for +10m eur to be our main striker.
If it was Mandzukic or Kalinic instead of Matri and Juve got them to be our main strikers, I will complain the same way I'll complain about Matri.
The thing is, we're only/mostly buying/linked to Italian mediocre players so it looks like people are anti-Italian.
Buying Zalayeta can be good in some circumstances and bad in others. When you have Zlatan, Trez and Del Piero in attack paying 2m eur for Zalayeta to be the 4th striker is good. When you have Amauri, Iaquinta and Toni in attack paying +10m eur for Zalayeta to be your main striker isn't good.
So, we have Melo, Aquilani and Marchisio in midfield and decide to sell Sissoko. Buying Rakitic for 1.5m eur is attractive transfer. You have Blasi and Nocerino in midfield buying Rakitic for +10m eur to be your main CM is bad.
We get to the Italians this way, in this case Matri. Noone will complain if we have three good strikers and we add Matri as a 4th choice. People don't like it if we buy him for +10m eur to be our main striker.
If it was Mandzukic or Kalinic instead of Matri and Juve got them to be our main strikers, I will complain the same way I'll complain about Matri.
The thing is, we're only/mostly buying/linked to Italian mediocre players so it looks like people are anti-Italian.
I agree. And also that's the thing, I wouldn't see Matri as a main buy. If we are talking €15m then forget it, it's pointless. He's in that category in-between what we need. He's better than a stop gap signing like Toni (not just because of his value) but not the category of striker I would expect us to sign in a summer mercato, if we were to reach the CL. He could do a Quagliarella, but you are taking a chance doing that every window.
Italian players come cheap, we kinda need that. krasic and dzeko were out prime targets in the summer, i'm pretty certain marotta couldnt care less what the nationality is when the player is realistic, a good upgrade, and the price is right
however, we are in a situation where we are looking bad due to last season, calciopoli, no CL, outside top 4, no money.... And yet we need reinforcements.
Marotta tries to do with it what he can, but he has no cash, so tries cheap italian players
Del neri tries to form a team with what he gets, like playing martinez on a new position to rest krasic.
The owners, are the ones who allow the cash, complain about them.
however, we are in a situation where we are looking bad due to last season, calciopoli, no CL, outside top 4, no money.... And yet we need reinforcements.
Marotta tries to do with it what he can, but he has no cash, so tries cheap italian players
Del neri tries to form a team with what he gets, like playing martinez on a new position to rest krasic.
The owners, are the ones who allow the cash, complain about them.
Bianconero81,
You may be right to assess both Pazzini and Boriello as you have, stating that they would be bench- warming material at top clubs.
However, a liitle bit of contextualizing would be welcomed.
I think it not unreasonable to posit that 4 of our regular starters would not even make make the bench at the top 4 teams in the current Serie A standings.
Apart from Amauri who is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, simply add the names of Motta, Sissoko and Grygera and you have some appreciation of the magnitude of the problems that lie ahead as the season wears on. Martinez, although not a regular starter, could be added to that list without fear of contradiction.
You may be right to assess both Pazzini and Boriello as you have, stating that they would be bench- warming material at top clubs.
However, a liitle bit of contextualizing would be welcomed.
I think it not unreasonable to posit that 4 of our regular starters would not even make make the bench at the top 4 teams in the current Serie A standings.
Apart from Amauri who is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, simply add the names of Motta, Sissoko and Grygera and you have some appreciation of the magnitude of the problems that lie ahead as the season wears on. Martinez, although not a regular starter, could be added to that list without fear of contradiction.
That is why it's sad that Pazzini and Boriello would waltz into the starting line-up of this current "provincial Juve." However, if we want to go back to being the "Real Juventus" we can't afford to splash 12-15 million Euros on a bunch of players who aren't game changers (Quag, Pep, Martinez, Bonnuci), instead of paying a bit more and getting 2 or 3 players who can really make the difference.
Amauri, Iaquinta, and Toni realisitcally shouldn't be here. Amauri is a striker who can't score goals, Iaquinta is hard-working but getting older and more frequently injures, not to mention that he needs 10 opportunities to score once; as for Toni, the guy hasn't been able to find form in over 3 years, and he was never really that good to begin with. What are we seriously expecting from this purchase? I would keep Quag as a back-up, as I don't really see him maintaining his form once he is back from injure (and I sincerely believe he was going to hit a slump sooner or later), and deploy Del Piero as a super sub, a role that Giggs is more than happy to play @ Man United.
Neymar and Benzema can be our starting tandem, with Del Piero and Quag more than adequate and able subs.
Amauri, Iaquinta, and Toni realisitcally shouldn't be here. Amauri is a striker who can't score goals, Iaquinta is hard-working but getting older and more frequently injures, not to mention that he needs 10 opportunities to score once; as for Toni, the guy hasn't been able to find form in over 3 years, and he was never really that good to begin with. What are we seriously expecting from this purchase? I would keep Quag as a back-up, as I don't really see him maintaining his form once he is back from injure (and I sincerely believe he was going to hit a slump sooner or later), and deploy Del Piero as a super sub, a role that Giggs is more than happy to play @ Man United.
Neymar and Benzema can be our starting tandem, with Del Piero and Quag more than adequate and able subs.
and what makes you so sure that neymar and benzema will be any different? as far as im concerned i'd rather keep quags than thrash out more money on players of unknown quantity, benzema's lack in work rate and commitment is well highlighted, whilst many here have only watched neymar on youtube doing a few step overs and they start jizzing their pants, personally im not convinced we should risk investing heavily in him.
Benzema, i plainly dont like. as a loan i'd take him, as a transfer, never. He is lazy and gives up. Besides he only performs against smaller teams, and doesnt fit the characteristics to be prima punta or SS in an italian team,we like to use clinical poachers or complete forwards, he isnt.
You can argue that we cant be choosers, but when spending 25 mill on a player, he is to stay for the first 3-5 years.
Neymar... never really proved anything besides beeing able to do even more stepovers then the average brazilian. But thats in that same brazillian league, where the defences arent like what they are here in europe. How will he be when put under the pressure of a manmarker and an active defensive midfield destroyer ? allways put under pressure ? very few keep shining in those circumstances.
But whats more important, is that we dont forget the lessons from the past. Our classic SS/trequartista's, werent primarly known for their dribbeling skills.
All of them were known for beeing creative mastermands, with ingenious passing and techique that splitted open defenses, combined with a good goalscoring record.
Juventus should allways be build on SS like this,and thats why its very importand to finalise the deal with piazon(or is it ?), and keep quag untill he's ready to take over in a few years.
I agree with bianconeri81 that borriello and pazzini would be benchplayers in the good juventus days, but at the moment, it looks like we need players like them, to bridge the gap to the past.
You can argue that we cant be choosers, but when spending 25 mill on a player, he is to stay for the first 3-5 years.
Neymar... never really proved anything besides beeing able to do even more stepovers then the average brazilian. But thats in that same brazillian league, where the defences arent like what they are here in europe. How will he be when put under the pressure of a manmarker and an active defensive midfield destroyer ? allways put under pressure ? very few keep shining in those circumstances.
But whats more important, is that we dont forget the lessons from the past. Our classic SS/trequartista's, werent primarly known for their dribbeling skills.
All of them were known for beeing creative mastermands, with ingenious passing and techique that splitted open defenses, combined with a good goalscoring record.
Juventus should allways be build on SS like this,and thats why its very importand to finalise the deal with piazon(or is it ?), and keep quag untill he's ready to take over in a few years.
I agree with bianconeri81 that borriello and pazzini would be benchplayers in the good juventus days, but at the moment, it looks like we need players like them, to bridge the gap to the past.
Wel, i saw as much of neymar as everybody else here : the bunch of youtube video's.
I see a player that has a few nice tricks, and alot of stepovers, but nothing like 90ties ronaldo. But that and his decent goalscoring(in brazil) is what he seems to offer.
I try to collect everything i find about piazon eversince i watched him in the games from the nike cup. He indeed shows characteristics that make you think of kaka, combined with a great goalscoring record. He was captain of the -15 brazil side, wich gives an indication of potential leadership qualities.
Besides, an SS that is captain of the team...we all know a special one dont we, and he needs a heir
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