Against Milan, We were Good! (8 Viewers)

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Has Juventus ever played with three playmakers? If talent was the only factor in winning championships, then we would have less Scudetti. Juventus wins trophies because we have had compact sides that could work well together. This team chemistry is hard to find, and sometimes too much talent does not help the chemistry of the team. Milan might have more talented players, but when hard work and team play come into the equation, anything is possible.

Allright, if you or ANYONE had read my posts you will see that I didn't state that talent alone wins it, as Greg correctly took me to task on that stating that Inter should have won 40 scudetti by now if that was the case.

The situation is that Milan not only has more talent, but they are also a compact side who work well together, and their front office makes sure that they not only get talented players, but quality people as well that are willing to buy into a system. Have you ever heard Tomasson, who could be a front line striker on a lot of teams, complain about his situation in Milan? No. Why? because they buy into the system. i'm not saying that Juve doesn't have that kind of system in place (although the back-handed comments made by Miccoli and Di Vaio once they left would lead one to believe that maybe all isn't right in Turin), because they do. However, if another team has that same type of mentality AND has more talent, then who do you think will win out in the end? People are making it sound like Juve is the only squad that has this "team chemistry", and that will take them over the top.

I'm here to say that isn't the case.

 

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[Primo]

I believe no one said that Juve is the only team with this cohesive team.

IMO, teams with this team chemistry like Juve, Valencia, Sociedad, Leverkusen, also deliver the "goods" that the likes of Milan, Inter, and Real are able to produce.

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by Primo ] ++
I believe no one said that Juve is the only team with this cohesive team.

IMO, teams with this team chemistry like Juve, Valencia, Sociedad, Leverkusen, also deliver the "goods" that the likes of Milan, Inter, and Real are able to produce.

Well, it just seems that a lot of people are using this as their trump card when mentioning Juve V. Milan. The problem is, if Milan has the chemistry as well, then what is left for juve to fall back on?

 

[neath_lad]

i havnt read most of this post but i saw the milan game and we were crap. maybe the full attendence put us off, we are not used to it at the stadio delli empty. he he

 

[day walker]

i think the great juve will be back after the break
i hope

 

[Gogeta]

And so will DP.........

 

[Daddi]

of course, DP will be back onform and so will Juventus.
Milan will hit the lowest kind of form in the entire league and will finish the championship on 5th place, overrun by Inter and Roma

Serie A prediction:
1. Juventus
2. Inter
3. Udinese
4. Roma
5. Milan

 

[Il Messiah]

++ [ originally posted by David Del Piero ] ++
of course, DP will be back onform and so will Juventus.
Milan will hit the lowest kind of form in the entire league and will finish the championship on 5th place, overrun by Inter and Roma

Serie A prediction:
1. Juventus
2. Inter
3. Udinese
4. Roma
5. Milan

another your idiot post :fero:

 

[Gogeta]

Dream on david

 

[denco]

I did not go thru the whole thread as I am sure it will the usual garbage of patting selves on the back even if the evidence is so worringly clear.

Basically it comes down to both teams from supporters, to owners and the teams themselves and this is how we differ, Milan wanna win but also do it in style and attractiveness, Juve , h#just wanna win and do not care how they go about it, thats why nonsense like drug taking and refereeing decions and generally poor play to grind out results.

Milan play beautiful football but Berlusconi blows a gasket whenever they do not play wiht 2 strikers, Capello gets away with always wanting to play a sub standard player like Zalayeta.

Capello was highly respected at Milan but he was not loved like Sacchi was cos his football was effective but boring and while he was there he was not that appreciated.

Milan has a strong defence but that does not stop them from playing great football as they have only one holding midfielder and even he has come up in leaps and bounds, but in Juve we play with 2 holding and apart from Emerson, the rest do not have any basic skills

Some very optimistic ppl are saying wait for Trez, em excuse me to do what exactly, he is not exactly Ronaldinho or a striker who actually moves and thats what we need if you are gonna play Zlatan, u need another striker who moves all the time as Dp, Zalayeta and Trez all have terrible if not static movement.

Thats our biggest problem, the lack of movement, ppl with no football idea always wanna blame Dp for holding on to the ball, but what does he do when noone moves and then by the time he tries to pass it he is dispossessed as he himself cannot go past players anymore.

I am sorry anyone who could actually draw positives from that game must be on dope and cheap dope at that or is just a dope

 

[Desmond]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

I am sorry anyone who could actually draw positives from that game must be on dope and cheap dope at that or is just a dope

:LOL:


good post man

 

[Primo]

Sergio,

Well, it just seems that a lot of people are using this as their trump card when mentioning Juve V. Milan. The problem is, if Milan has the chemistry as well, then what is left for juve to fall back on?

But you see, it's always harder to gell together a team full of stars because each of them want to impose their own game to the team. While team players such as zambro, camo, emerson, well..you don't see them trying to impose themselves.

Actually I think the reason why Rui Costa has been relegated to the bench is because he Ancellotti prefers Kaka's rather than Rui's game. But if Rui could adapt his game, he could still be a starter. There's massive talent in Rui, that's completely wasted.

If Crespo had more playing time, he would've gelled faster. It took him a while because of the competition for palces, thus prolonging and making it more difficult to crate some chemistry.

My point is, you usually either have a group of stars and rely on their brilliance, whichever comes out on top, or have your whole group team players perform at the same level and creating a collective effort. The latter, is the status quo at Juve.

David Del Piero,

of course, DP will be back onform and so will Juventus.
Milan will hit the lowest kind of form in the entire league and will finish the championship on 5th place, overrun by Inter and Roma

Serie A prediction:
1. Juventus
2. Inter
3. Udinese
4. Roma
5. Milan

I don't want to jinx it but I doubt this will happen. Del Piero is getting old, and Milan are getting hot. But of course, I'd be happy, very happy if what you said will happen.

Cheers to that!

Denco,

I am sorry anyone who could actually draw positives from that game must be on dope and cheap dope at that or is just a dope

So you're saying coming out with a point in that game should be taken negatively? Hell, my smile reached my ears when I heard we drew against Milan after playing badly.

-

Obviuosly, some of the guys here feel hard done time and time again when Juve don't win. I've already accepted that Juventus aren't the most glamorous team in Europe so I won't expect them to be one. I know we don't play attractive football and win in style, but we do not play so dirty that we can be called the antagonists of world football. We don't make rugby tackles, or play the game with just one striker and defend by force. We do try to play offense, we just happen to be more adept to defending.

 

[Desmond]

++ [ originally posted by Primo ] ++
Sergio,


But you see, it's always harder to gell together a team full of stars because each of them want to impose their own game to the team. While team players such as zambro, camo, emerson, well..you don't see them trying to impose themselves.

Actually I think the reason why Rui Costa has been relegated to the bench is because he Ancellotti prefers Kaka's rather than Rui's game. But if Rui could adapt his game, he could still be a starter. There's massive talent in Rui, that's completely wasted.

If Crespo had more playing time, he would've gelled faster. It took him a while because of the competition for palces, thus prolonging and making it more difficult to crate some chemistry.

My point is, you usually either have a group of stars and rely on their brilliance, whichever comes out on top, or have your whole group team players perform at the same level and creating a collective effort. The latter, is the status quo at Juve.

i get your point but unfortunately Milan have already found this cohesiveness and have gelled together as a team as much as Juve have,so the point that it's supposedly harder for glamorous teams to gel doesn't stand,unfortunately.

 

[Primo]

Really, I always thought Milan didn't have this cohesiveness. Well, not as much as we do.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

Good points Denco, as usual, except for the part about Capello playing a boring style of play at Milan. Despite the numerous records it established (58 undefeated games in the serie A, 3 scudetti in a row) Capello's Milan was never able to disintegrate its opponents the way Sacchi's Milan used to. But then again, no team in the history of football bar Cruyff's Ajax compares to that Milan. But in the first year under Capello's management, Milan played some very attractive football nonetheless, notably beating Foggia, Pescara, Fiorentina and Napoli 8-2; 5-4; 7-3 and 5-1 respectively on their home ground. We scored something like 80 goals in the serie A only that year. The next season we re-grabbed the scudetto in style and won all our games on the way to the CL final, some of which with spectacular displays. It was only in the third year of Capello's rule that we became a cynical team. We won our 3rd domestic title by scoring only about half as many goals as 2 years earlier but by conceding only 15 or 17. And why was that? Simple : because Milan did no longer have the players it took to play offensive football. Rijkaard and Gullit had left, Ancelotti and Van Basten had retired, Donadoni was past his prime. So Capello chose to focus on the defensive strenghts of the team and created that untouchable defensive line made up of Tassotti/Panucci, Baresi, Dessailly/Costacurta, Maldini, which paid dividend. And this is very much what he's currently doing at Juventus, again with (so far) excellent results. As I've always said, a coach doesn't win trophies : the players on the pitch do. But a coach who like Capello is able to compensate for the team's limits by consolidating its strenghts can help greatly.

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I did not go thru the whole thread as I am sure it will the usual garbage of patting selves on the back even if the evidence is so worringly clear.

Basically it comes down to both teams from supporters, to owners and the teams themselves and this is how we differ, Milan wanna win but also do it in style and attractiveness, Juve , h#just wanna win and do not care how they go about it, thats why nonsense like drug taking and refereeing decions and generally poor play to grind out results.

Then, our results are product of drug taking, referee decisions and poor play??

Commonly, irritatation tends to oversimplification. As is true that Juve was becoming much tired in the last few games and that Milan was founding form, there is also true that we had showed more consistency along the first part of the season.
We dont have the style and the atractive flairness of Milan or Barcelona, nor i think Capello will explore now, searching for delicious football in our team. We have what we have, and we will try to win with it.

I understand some of us feel frustration, because we want to see Juve playing spectacular football. But let not be unfair saying that our results are product of drug taking and referree desision.....

 

[desireless]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
So Capello chose to focus on the defensive strenghts of the team and created that untouchable defensive line made up of Tassotti/Panucci, Baresi, Dessailly/Costacurta, Maldini, which paid dividend. And this is very much what he's currently doing at Juventus, again with (so far) excellent results.

Nice posts :thumb:
Totally agree here Franco.

We can't play an attacking football here, and furthermore we don't have in-depth quality inside the team. At least if the first team players have a backup players that he can trust, to pass the responsibility on, I think they won't be mentally drained out and suffered such a huge morale and physical fatigueness.

 

[baggio]

I feel, Juve as a team, has learnt to play within its limits. Often condemned for being defensive, i think we forget our intrinsic style defines these characteristics. True, its rarely ever beautiful, or flamboyant, but there's no doubt its effective. And i guess thats how its going to be for better or worse. I beg to differ with those who feel we dont have enough talent on board. Even when compared to Milan, we're up with them, man for man. Having said that, if we're to look at it with regards to our title implications, well, Milan are finding their feet no doubt, but the winter break could have a negative bearing on their tempo. To me, Trezeguet could have similar effect on his rivals and can prove to be a focal point around our scudetto challenge. Dp is clearly past it, Zlatan still has some way to mature, Nedved imo is slowly losing his touch and Zala doesnt cut it as Mr. Consistent. Somewhere down the line, its going to come down to a Trez vs Shevchenko battle. Milan may have the edge, but Juve have the mentality. And this year's scudetto should determine what really counts.

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
Good points Denco, as usual, except for the part about Capello playing a boring style of play at Milan. Despite the numerous records it established (58 undefeated games in the serie A, 3 scudetti in a row) Capello's Milan was never able to disintegrate its opponents the way Sacchi's Milan used to. But then again, no team in the history of football bar Cruyff's Ajax compares to that Milan. But in the first year under Capello's management, Milan played some very attractive football nonetheless, notably beating Foggia, Pescara, Fiorentina and Napoli 8-2; 5-4; 7-3 and 5-1 respectively on their home ground. We scored something like 80 goals in the serie A only that year. The next season we re-grabbed the scudetto in style and won all our games on the way to the CL final, some of which with spectacular displays. It was only in the third year of Capello's rule that we became a cynical team. We won our 3rd domestic title by scoring only about half as many goals as 2 years earlier but by conceding only 15 or 17. And why was that? Simple : because Milan did no longer have the players it took to play offensive football. Rijkaard and Gullit had left, Ancelotti and Van Basten had retired, Donadoni was past his prime. So Capello chose to focus on the defensive strenghts of the team and created that untouchable defensive line made up of Tassotti/Panucci, Baresi, Dessailly/Costacurta, Maldini, which paid dividend. And this is very much what he's currently doing at Juventus, again with (so far) excellent results. As I've always said, a coach doesn't win trophies : the players on the pitch do. But a coach who like Capello is able to compensate for the team's limits by consolidating its strenghts can help greatly.

But isnt that the way with Capello though, he always seems to take over at a club in which someone else has made into playing very attractive, copy that person's style like he did with Zeman at Roma, then after a season or 2 reverts to his caution first approach.

But you have to agree with the fact that Milan fans were not too happy even though they were winning by 1-0 in almost every game, this where yopu guys differ from Juve fans.

This a team that has won 27 scudetti in the past but are still content to be scraping by and winning, its not like we havent won anything in ages so we can be satisfied with winning at all costs, we ought to be playing better than the way we do.

I am not that interested in individuals and who has the superior, even if thats clearly Milan, but the lack of off the ball movement does my head in.

I was watching Arsenal and Thierry and Pires in particular and their movement was just amazing it was like they have telepathy but they don't obviously, its the off the ball movement that matters, like what Pippo used to give us, also I would much rather prefer Emerson's partner to be a playmaker.

We ought to be spanking teams in terms of performances and scoreline but we cannot as we are restrained with what i have just talked about.

We cannot be playing the likes of Maccabi 1-0 and struggling to beat the worst Lazio side in almost 10 years and of cos that dreadful performance against Milan, tired or not is unacceptable

And why are they tired? Well the manager has in mind to take off only 1 player and plays the same team day in and out when he has a big squad

 

[Daddi]

++ [ originally posted by ehfvkfao ] ++


another your idiot post :fero:

You should stop say things like that to me, or I will complain about your posts too. Can't I have some fun around here?

Btw, we will Fvck your precious Real Madrid so hard