Abortion: where do you stand? (1 Viewer)

[*aca*]

You have to define what "life" is before you can call abortion waste of life, soul and so on....

I'm absolutely pro-choice if abortion is performed up to first 10 weeks of pregnancy. I also believe that up to first ten weeks it is absolutely up to the women to decide what is best for her. (as long as she is capable of making that decision on her own).

 

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[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by nosubstitute959 ] ++
Pro Life

If the woman can't take care of the child, then she shouldn't get pregnant in the first place.

It's not as easy as that, what if a women got pregnant after being raped?

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
As you said, you know my views on this already, but you also know that I can't stay away from a topic like this I think abortion is wrong. btw have we talked about this in another thread? Or are you just assuming my opinion?

I'm assuming, as I know you're a man of God, and the Bible says it's wrong, right?

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

I dunno about this man. It's a life we're talking about here, and if you're gonna say that a 'mother' has the right to decide if her would be easier without the child, how far does that extend? If I decide that my life would be easier without my pet cat (I don't have a cat), would it be okay for me to chop it up with a kitchen knife?) If I decide that my life would be easier with some extra moolah, why shouldn't I be allowed to burgle someone's house or mug them on the street? Your answer may be that this shouldn't be allowed because it comes at the expense of others, but doesn't abortion come at the cost of an unborn baby's life?

I think abortion is an easy way out; people need to start taking responsibility for their actions. Sex was designed so people could have babies, so if you're gonna have sex (unprotected or not), be prepared for the chance of pregnancy. I'm not saying that abortion is an easy decision to make, I mean of course it's a difficult process and stressful on the mother too, but it's still a 'convenient' escape route from the consequences of people's actions.

I leave you with an image of what abortion is really like. I think the baby is around 5-6 months old at this stage

*****WARNING***** EXTREMELY GRAPHIC. DON'T CLICK IF YOU ARE EASILY SICKENED

Not the same think any ou know it. First of all, the baby is still a fetus, unborn and as such has lower priority than the mother and her life. IMO. Anyawys, what about the life the baby is going to have if it comes to an unprepared mother, or a broken home, or to a woamn thats raped, that will never be able to look at her baby without remembering what had happened to her.

You are pro life, I am pro choice. It's still the womans body and IMO she has the right to do what she wants with it, and the fetus is a part of her body. BTW, dont you think that it's quite illogical and strange that men (lawmakers and politicians, especially in conservative societies where abortion is against the law, are mostly men) who have no idea how the women feel or what they think get to decide about these issues? Like I said, the baby is unborn, and as long as she isnt born the mother has the right to chose whether to abort or not.

And being prepared for pregnancy is one thing, but you can get pregnant even using protection. And the think I've mentioned a few times: what about raped women that get pregnant?

++ [ originally posted by nosubstitute959 ] ++
Do you see parents who lose their jobs or have serious financial troubles killing their kids because they're going to have a tougher time taking care of them?

It's not nearly the same thing. And unborn fetus and a grown child are much different and you know it.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
It's not as easy as that, what if a women got pregnant after being raped?
..., or to a woamn thats raped, that will never be able to look at her baby without remembering what had happened to her.

That's already been discussed here, and I can sympathise with someone in that situation, but abortion has lasting psychological impact on the mother too - it's far from the idea solution, even before you take moral arguements into account. Far better to have the baby and give it up for adoption - and if you can't bear the idea of giving a baby up for adoption, click on the link in Gray's first post here, and ask yourself which is worse?

Not the same think any ou know it. First of all, the baby is still a fetus, unborn and as such has lower priority than the mother and her life. IMO. Anyawys, what about the life the baby is going to have if it comes to an unprepared mother, or a broken home...

It may be lower priority than the mother's life, but it certainly can't be lower priority than here social life, career, or personal whims. Not in my book, at any rate. When you value convienience over life, unborn or not, you devalue the basis of civilisation itself.

You are pro life, I am pro choice. It's still the womans body and IMO she has the right to do what she wants with it, and the fetus is a part of her body. BTW, dont you think that it's quite illogical and strange that men (lawmakers and politicians, especially in conservative societies where abortion is against the law, are mostly men) who have no idea how the women feel or what they think get to decide about these issues? Like I said, the baby is unborn, and as long as she isnt born the mother has the right to chose whether to abort or not.

I have no idea how a murderer feels either - I still feel quite happy that I have a right to condemn and outlaw it in my country. As for the choice arguement, I dealt with that above.

And being prepared for pregnancy is one thing, but you can get pregnant even using protection.

Which is the risk you take - it doesn't really justify anything. If a mother realises shortly after the birth that a baby is going to keep here up all night for months on end, does she have a right to smother it?

And unborn fetus and a grown child are much different and you know it.

So are a baby and an adult - it doesn't mean it has any less right to life.

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

So are a baby and an adult - it doesn't mean it has any less right to life.

You can not compare, except if you are talking life to begins at the conception, ie when a sperm reaches the egg.

For PPL that are pro-choice, that is not life......yet.

It does have a potential to become one, thats why most pro-choice PPL would agree on the limit up to when abortion is acceptable.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++


You can not compare, except if you are talking life to begins at the conception, ie when a sperm reaches the egg.

For PPL that are pro-choice, that is not life......yet.

It does have a potential to become one, thats why most pro-choice PPL would agree on the limit up to when abortion is acceptable.

I understand that aca, but I feel that any limit that they set after that is very arbitrary. The arguements I've heard for ten weeks, the 2nd trimester, etc, have geenerally been extreemly weak, IMO.

 

[Dragon]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++


You dont care or agree about that? And who really cares about the dangers to a women who may not be able to have a child again. IMO that women would never deserve to have a child again. Having a child isnt just a choice, you cant just decide if it suits you or not. Many people want children but cant have them. Women that are pregnant have started a life, they should keep that child no matter what. There isnt excuses as you can make anything work.

Id rather die myself, than end the life of my child.

Yeah, I agree with you, but its just that I dont like saying "aborting is killing a new life" Id just rather say that you cannot abort because you should be responsible for your actions, if you cant really raise the child then put it in adoption.

 

[Dragon]

++ [ originally posted by kurvengeflüster ] ++
Pro abortion here
What if the future mother can't take care of the young child? What if the future mother is a child, too?
What if the future mother is a "victim" of defective protection means?

Would it be better forcing her to get the child?

If you cant take care of the child then why are you having sex!!! If youre not responsible enough to asume the consequences of your acts then dont do it

 

[Sid]

Abortion = killing innocent and defenseless "thing"(if you people dont want to call it life.....)

 

[Dragon]

Why do you people say it isnt life yet? Biologically a fetus HAS life because the body is developing, its not like when the moment you give birth the baby comes back to life, then what about the babies that die before they come to the World, theyre not life?

The morning after pill, though, just kills the egg before it becomes an embryo (so technically it isnt life yet)(thats what I heard in biology class, maybe they were wrong). Some people say its abortive and some dont. It also depends of when you take it, and its not like you have sex periodically and notice you might be pregnant and take it, because the side effects are pretty big.

 

[kurvengeflüster]

++ [ originally posted by fabiana ] ++


If you cant take care of the child then why are you having sex!!! If youre not responsible enough to asume the consequences of your acts then dont do it

I'm sorry but you misunderstood me...I meant what if a 16 years old girl had sex - her first time - and together with her boyfriend she didn't think about protection because of all these new feelings or other circumstances. Imagine the girl became pregnant and the boy would rather spend his time with other girls than as a father. So he left the new mother alone, alone with her baby, alone with herself - still a 16 yrs old girl. Well I don't want to be in that position to force someone. And that is not a question being answered by outsiders. The young mother has to decide wether she wants to give birth. Because with that decision she will also change her life. She won't have that leisure time like peers. For her it won't be that easy to study or something else. Even getting a job will be difficult.

Everyday we kill young born children at third world. Day in and day out we act without thinking about consequences. We crash economics with gambling on the stock exchange. Small dirty fingers sew our nike-clothes and weave the new ikea-carpet. So what is this abortion-discussion about? Do we want to rise forefinger and say others what is to do? Do we as "upholder of moral standards" want to give indulgence? I don't want.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

let me ask you this question.



if both parents are responsible for the baby why is only the mother that takes the deccision for abortion ?

 

[kurvengeflüster]

because she is delivering the baby...?

 

[Vicky]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


we know.

Exactly, so deal with it yourself! Dont make another soul pay for it.

yeah EXACTLY
you're 15 and you're pregnant, and you have a baby when you're 16, you never even considered having a child before, and YES you f*cked up. should you keep the baby ? if a child is unwanted then he/she probably won't be happy ..... and you probably seen some bad mothers and fathers, now if they WANTED the child they wouldn't be bad parents , would they ?
my mother had a few abortions before she had me, you know why ? because you couldn't get condoms back then .... and when she was ready to have a child, she did. well i'm glad i wasn't the unwated kid.

and i find it very ironic, how most of the guys are pro life and girls are pro choice ... alright enough or i'm gonna start crying

 

[Elnur_E65]

I am Pro Life. But not for all cases. I think a mother needs to be given 6 weeks to decide on what to do.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by Vicky ] ++
...you have a baby when you're 16, you never even considered having a child before, and YES you f*cked up. should you keep the baby ? if a child is unwanted then he/she probably won't be happy...

If you don't want it, kill it? I hope you don't treat your pets like that.

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

I understand that aca, but I feel that any limit that they set after that is very arbitrary. The arguements I've heard for ten weeks, the 2nd trimester, etc, have geenerally been extreemly weak, IMO.

Agreed on "arbitrary" thing. But i see it as necessary.

if you do not provide a time limit, any person that partakes in commiting an abortion should ultimately be responsible for participating in the act of murder.

You wont find murder & abortion treated equally even in countries where abortion is ilegal.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++
Agreed on "arbitrary" thing. But i see it as necessary.

It certainly is if you allow it at all! Otherwise, murder would be legal by the same legislation!

if you do not provide a time limit, any person that partakes in commiting an abortion should ultimately be responsible for participating in the act of murder.

That is the view of most of us who oppose abortion, I think.

You wont find murder & abortion treated equally even in countries where abortion is ilegal.

You won't find the actions of US troops treated as murder or torture either - legislation doesn't make it right.

 

[Gandalf]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
I think I only know Gray's view about this, but I'd like to hear the rest of you.

I personaly believe that every woman has the right to make a choice for herself, choose what she thinks is best. I cant understand that there are still some "democratic" countries that have outlawed abortion, as it's one the human rights. A lot of people will say that the child has the right to live, and I agree. But the mother also has the right to live, meaning that she has the right to decide whether or not her life would be easier without the child. As much as she has an obligation and responsibility to the child, she has towards herself.


Anyways, it's 2.30 am, and I have driving lessons early tommorrow morning, so I might not be makins snense, I probably could have made a better case :sleepy:


What do you lot think?

I'm against abortion.. some may not treat as killing.. but afterall, it is ending a life...

and if the woman doesn't want the baby.. she shouldn't have let herself get knocked-up..

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by Gandalf ] ++
I'm against abortion.. some may not treat as killing.. but afterall, it is ending a life...

and if the woman doesn't want the baby.. she shouldn't have let herself get knocked-up..

Ah, come on now - why do people just post their opinion without reading more than the first post. Congrats Gandalf, you're the 15th person to paraphrase those two sentances without adding anything to the arguement. :fero:

Nothing personal, btw - you're far from alone.

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

It certainly is if you allow it at all! Otherwise, murder would be legal by the same legislation!

Murder is still legal in many countries Everything depends who does it
In the USA, many that are against abortion would be pro death penalty (at least from what i managed to gather).

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

You won't find the actions of US troops treated as murder or torture either - legislation doesn't make it right.

And this is where the argument has to take direction.

Is it "moral-ethical" or "legal"? Is it "universal" or is it country, culture, situation based?

Bottom line, the truth will lie in the eye of the beholder.