A Thought Experiment (1 Viewer)

[rounder]

A brother and his sister, Kyle and Betty, decided to go on a road trip together. One day while staying in a hotel, they decided to make love to each other, they used birth control pills and condoms just to be safe. They thoroughly enjoyed it and never had any regrets.

After that night, they decided not to tell anyone about what had happened and this little secret of theirs even brought them closer together. Now, here's my question, do you think what Kyle and Betty did was moral? And why or why not?

 

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[Bjerknes]

What happens in West Virginia, stays in West Virginia.

 

[Martin]

Why would it be immoral?

 

[Enron]

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to see it or hear it, then did the tree really fall?

 

[rounder]

Why would it be immoral?

Well, that's the point. There isn't really a rational conscious explanation to why it would be immoral yet many people would claim it's wrong regardless of this fact.
I am talking about an intuitive sense of morality, which in my opinion, most people use to deem actions as either right or wrong.

There has been a study that claimed only two percent of people actually assess a situation beforehand and objectively decide whether it is moral or not by logical reasons. The rest of the population rely on intuition.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

What happens in West Virginia, stays in West Virginia.

HEY! Asshat!

Well, that's the point. There isn't really a rational conscious explanation to why it would be immoral yet many people would claim it's wrong regardless of this fact.
I am talking about an intuitive sense of morality, which in my opinion, most people use to deem actions as either right or wrong.

There has been a study that claimed only two percent of people actually assess a situation beforehand and objectively decide whether it is moral or not by logical reasons. The rest of the population rely on intuition.

I think it's odd, and I wouldn't do it, but if no one knows about it, who's harmed?

 

[rounder]

I think it's odd, and I wouldn't do it, but if no one knows about it, who's harmed?

That's true. But don't you think it's wrong?

 

[Bjerknes]

How about if you fuck your mother?

 

[Stephan]

amoral

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

That's true. But don't you think it's wrong?

Who am I to decide what other people do?

How about if you fuck your mother?

I don't like to go back to where I came from.

 

[Martin]

Well, that's the point. There isn't really a rational conscious explanation to why it would be immoral yet many people would claim it's wrong regardless of this fact.
I am talking about an intuitive sense of morality, which in my opinion, most people use to deem actions as either right or wrong.

There has been a study that claimed only two percent of people actually assess a situation beforehand and objectively decide whether it is moral or not by logical reasons. The rest of the population rely on intuition.

True, but if you're going to make laws about it to decide the moral question you should think about it harder than "it feels wrong".

As I see it as long as there is no child there is no moral question issue at hand. So if one of the parties is infertile, I see no reason why they couldn't get married and say adopt if they wanted.

Furthermore, the whole basis for the so called immorality of incest is the risk of birth defects in the children. Mind you defects are not guaranteed, it's entirely possible that the kid comes out normal. But this means that if we had a way to medically quell that risk then the morality question would fall away completely, so theoretically that could be just a question of time in medical progress.

 

[rounder]

True, but if you're going to make laws about it to decide the moral question you should think about it harder than "it feels wrong".

As I see it as long as there is no child there is no moral question issue at hand. So if one of the parties is infertile, I see no reason why they couldn't get married and say adopt if they wanted.

Furthermore, the whole basis for the so called immorality of incest is the risk of birth defects in the children. Mind you defects are not guaranteed, it's entirely possible that the kid comes out normal. But this means that if we had a way to medically quell that risk then the morality question would fall away completely, so theoretically that could be just a question of time in medical progress.

I agree, and I have said this. There is absolutely no rational reason to why I anyone would think it was wrong. But here's the thing, if you knew one of your best friends was fucking his mother or sister, would you really be okay with it? Would you not think what he was doing was wrong? To me, the question of morality extends beyond rational reasoning, I believe it is more to do with our subconcious rather than our conscious self.

 

[Ahmed]

Rule # 1: you don't fuck your father/mother/sister/brother

 

[rounder]

Rule # 1: you don't fuck your father/mother/sister/brother

But can you rationally justify why not? If you had protective sex and made sure there were no social consequences. What decides fucking a family member is wrong?

 

[Cronios]

Rule # 1: you don't fuck your father/mother/sister/brother

 

[Martin]

I agree, and I have said this. There is absolutely no rational reason to why I anyone would think it was wrong. But here's the thing, if you knew one of your best friends was fucking his mother or sister, would you really be okay with it? Would you not think what he was doing was wrong? To me, the question of morality extends beyond rational reasoning, I believe it is more to do with our subconcious rather than our conscious self.

If that's what he was doing I'm not so sure he would tell me. Anyway, there's any number of things that people might do in their bedroom that I would not be eager to know about. That doesn't make it wrong until someone is being hurt.

 

[rounder]

If that's what he was doing I'm not so sure he would tell me. Anyway, there's any number of things that people might do in their bedroom that I would not be eager to know about. That doesn't make it wrong until someone is being hurt.

What if you caught him by mistake?



Harm is only one of 5 bases of morality.
1)Harm.
2)Reciprocity
3)Community or group
4)Authority
5)Purity



In the western culture, only 2 of these 5 are used. In the eastern culture, all of them are used. For example, in Russia putting your parents in a older people's home is considered appalingly immoral while it is completely moral in the US. ( Respect for Authority).

The question of morality is far more complex and goes beyond the harm factor.
Is it moral for a man to run naked in a shopping mall? Is it moral for someone ro bad mouh his country? Is it moral for someone to steak money from innocent people? These are all examples of actions that are immoral despite not causing any harm.

 

[Elvin]

Dude, even asking the question "why is it wrong?" is wrong

 

[Martin]

Say what?

Is it moral for a man to run naked in a shopping mall? Don't know.
Is it moral for someone ro bad mouh his country? Yes.
Is it moral for someone to steak money from innocent people? No, but there is harm involved.

 

[Ahmed]

But can you rationally justify why not? If you had protective sex and made sure there were no social consequences. What decides fucking a family member is wrong?

it will lead to a breakdown in family values and the hierarchy of the family structure