A Pathetic democracy!!! (12 Viewers)

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PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,893
Enron said:
I understand that Isreali tanks roll daily through Palestinian towns and do unlawful searches and investigations and probably some unspeakable acts, just as Stalin's troops did, just as the British did in India, and as many other countries have unjustly done to their people. And I said nothing about who attacked, who defended and who needs to be punished or understood. All I know is that innocent civilians need to stop dying in the streets.
In stalins case, he was the whole leader of a nation and had already out the law of factionalism that no group could ever rise if so then they would be either exiled or put in jail.. this is different israel doesnt own all of palestine.. just yet.. although what it is doing is setting up divides and at the same time sending its bulldozers across and taking over peoples land whenever it feels necessary. Also during the times when stalin was around there wasnt enough internation presence anywhere thus other international countries never really knew about the hidden matters and couldnt find out due to communist regime. However in this case there is every reason a people can find out but they either dont, or when they do they just give israel a warning and thats all we hear of the end of it.

The british in india case was remarkably different too.. the british spent more emphasis on gaining materials and income out of the land that they colonised and as a result suppress there culture on the indians rather than spending a lot of time killing the native indians that lived in their country.. as a result it was all about money. People like indra gandhi, brought a better understanding amongst the british and his native indians which helped the british to give the independence to india during 1947 thanks to the indian national congress which was set up to talk only. This clearly shows that the british were willing to actually listen to the indians unlike now. Israel is not willingly to listen to palestinians they have breached more ceasefires more agreements than the opposite they are also known to be breaching many UN resolution and as a result aint nowhere as a democratic country as its allys the U.S and most especially U.K. I have already shown in my previous posts how they were the first to have breached the oslo agreement.
 

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GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,446
Fliakis said:
to be honest your doing a great job youself. im not defending burke, but your input in this discussion is incredible. the best part was telling enlishmen and irishmen they know bollocks about the northern ireland issue. im in awe..

please do show me where I said that. And had I even spoken of facts on the ground how is nationality even relevant? In case you cannot find what you;re talking about, and you wont: stop misquoting me
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
ReBeL said:
Ok...

Let's assume Palestinians stop the bombings...

How will you know that Israelis are continuing their crimes??

Just look at this website, which is an American one, by the way:

http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2006.html

And I'm generalizing the Western viewpoint because as you see, nobody in Europe have guts to have another opinion other than the American biased opinion...

If you saw the Danish delegate talking in front of the security board yesterday about this issue, you'll know that West is one coin with different faces...
Alright, you clearly don't know very much about European politics if you think that nobody in europe differs from the American opinion. Just look at the lead-up to the Iraq war. Furthermore, this wouldn't have even been an issue except for European influence. As you believe, Israel is bent on destorying all Palestinians, so what would have stopped them if not European initiatives like the Oslo accord? You want everyone to be openminded and see both sides of the Israel-Palestine issue, but you jump in to say that Europe is the lapdog of America. Very openminded.
 

Rami

The Linuxologist
Dec 24, 2004
8,065
I think he was misunderstood (or rather didnt convey what he wanted using the right words) since he already provided an american site. Him believeing that there are americans standing up for his cause, means that he believes that there are opposing political streams in the west. He probably meant that governments don't really have the guts to seriously oppose the USA i.e economically or forcefully.
 
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ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #466
    Rami said:
    I think he was misunderstood (or rather didnt convey what he wanted using the right words) since he already provided an american site. Him believeing that there are americans standing up for his cause, means that he believes that there are opposing political streams in the west. He probably meant that governments don't really have the guts to seriously oppose the USA i.e economically or forcefully.
    Exactly....

    When I talk about Europe, I mean the governments, not the normal people...

    And yes, there are Americans standing up for the case but unfortunately, they can't affect the political decision there...
     

    - vOnAm -

    Senior Member
    Jul 22, 2004
    3,779
    - vOnAm - said:
    Referee is what the United Nations should stand for, but we have politics in this world, and as much as anybody wants to deny, we know the US hold many-many countries by the BALLS because of their economic power. Which then hinders many countries from bieng eye openingly objective/vocal and just, and strips UN of its power.
    Like I said, no one has the REAL Balls to step up to the US, not the UN not Europe as a whole not nobody.

    There were some countries who critisize the US such as Germany, France and even China, but not really enough.
     
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    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
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  • Thread Starter #468
    Enron said:
    Just an idea here. What would happen if the Arab population in the Isreal were to unite and form some sort of organized Congress and write an official declaration of Independence, asking for a specific area of Isreal? Do you think that could ever happen?
    Sorry for being late...

    Palestinians had a national charter made by the Palestinian National Council in 1974 to organize the goals which were to be rezched by all Palestinians all over the World...

    This charter didn't accept Israel and called for fighting it until the people goes back to their lands...

    In 1996 the Palestinian National Council was convened in Gaza to consider the revision of the Charter to make it possible to have a piece of land instead of all of it as an initiative for the peace...

    Israel replied by forbidding most of the Palestinian National Council members from going to Gaza, and kept assasinating some leaders of them...

    And in the same period of time, Palestinians noted that Israeli bulldozers are digging some tunnels until the Dome of the Rock Mosque in Jerusalem, and that was enough reason not to make a good step by Palestinians while Israelis keep making their preplanned expansions not caring about the feelings of Palestinians towards that mosque...

    This was never discussed back by Palestinians because simply, you can't offer all what you got while the other party is not making anything to proceed in the peace process...
     
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    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
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  • Thread Starter #469
    - vOnAm - said:
    Yes ofcourse, Violence should never be incouraged...but all of us (EAST, WEST, NORTH, SOUTH) understand that it is legitimate to use it, for defensive purposes.

    And yes there is a problem there regarding revenge and I think one reason it hasn't stopped is that there is no Referee here. The US acts like the world's police but it isn't behaving so. All modern, wealthy support seem to go in favour of Isreali without proper judgement on the whole situation. As if the western world labelled Palestinians the bad guys before they tried to understand what has happened and what is happening.

    Referee is what the United Nations should stand for, but we have politics in this world, and as much as anybody wants to deny, we know the US hold many-many countries by the BALLS because of their economic power. Which then hinders many countries from bieng eye openingly objective/vocal and just, and strips UN of its power.
    :agree: :agree:
     
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    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #470
    Altair said:
    Interesting point, especially since all the religions/cultures which promoted compassion and forgiveness originated in the east.
    E, it is one thing to hear a sad story and go "wow that must've sucked" then get back to your game, your family, and your life. But it's a different ball game when things that anyone would take for granted are stripped away and you're subjected to constant humiliation.
    You said something about arabs being perceived as zealots with explosive jackets. But out of the two, history disagrees that it is the israelis that travelled thousands of miles to expell, kill, and dehumanize another people in the name of a "divine" promise.
    Is it reason enough for you as a last resort (yes it is a last resort) to go blow yourself up and kill "civilians" out of frustration, helplessness, and despair? I dont know I'd have to live in tulkarem refugee camp for some years and see how that affects me (makes up for a great anthropological project). Just know that calling people animals is the last think that would dissuade them from acting out their anger.
    If Israel were serious about peace they wouldnt have:

    1. created hamas. yes Israel provided money logistics and support for hamas ever since it started as a philanthropic org.
    2. disregarded all UN resolution and branded the anti-semitic card whenever anyone would criticize its actions
    3. stole technology from the US to ammass the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world.
    4. and finally if they were really serious about making peace they wouldnt have built the biggest concrete cage known to man.
    Very true, especially the fact about creating Hamas...

    Respect...
     
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    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
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  • Thread Starter #471
    - vOnAm - said:
    I think Enron is already starting to open up abit, that even Palestinians know that violence in reality will get them nowhere. Him and ReBeL are now sitting at the table instead of standing infront of one another :D
    Well, I came and opened this thread originally to get some useful debates, and there are some constructive ones...

    I didn't come here to insult anybody, so if anybody was hurt by one of my words, I apologize...

    We're here to know what everybody think of...
     
    Jul 5, 2005
    2,653
    Ian said:
    Fine. You're right. The Israelis are evil bastards intent on killing all the Palestinians in the most dispicable manner possible. I accept the fact that you may actually be right about that. But, I think that if that is the case, it is only insomuch as the Palestinians are in opposite direction.
    Hey man you will drive me crazy. The Israelis conquered the Palestine, they took their land and they have isolated them in 2 pieces. How then you say that that the palestinians are in the opposite direction? If that happened to your place what would you have done?
     
    Jul 5, 2005
    2,653
    ReBeL said:
    And I'm generalizing the Western viewpoint because as you see, nobody in Europe have guts to have another opinion other than the American biased opinion...
    You have right on this Rebel but if you have lived in Europe and you watched the T.V. news the reporters always say that Palestinians blow up themselves and don't help for the Peace and they show them like "terrorists". I haven't saw anytime on T.V. the Israelish that make raids against inocent Palestinians and trrorize them. It isn't fault of Europeans that because they see only this stuff on T.V. and not the other side. But know that there are many peaple in Europe who are opened-minded and look for the truth out there. Thanks to this thread i think many peaple have learned and the other side, the side of Palestinians. So Keep posting.:)
     
    Jul 5, 2005
    2,653
    PhRoZeN said:
    In stalins case, he was the whole leader of a nation and had already out the law of factionalism that no group could ever rise if so then they would be either exiled or put in jail.. this is different israel doesnt own all of palestine.. just yet.. although what it is doing is setting up divides and at the same time sending its bulldozers across and taking over peoples land whenever it feels necessary. Also during the times when stalin was around there wasnt enough internation presence anywhere thus other international countries never really knew about the hidden matters and couldnt find out due to communist regime. However in this case there is every reason a people can find out but they either dont, or when they do they just give israel a warning and thats all we hear of the end of it.

    The british in india case was remarkably different too.. the british spent more emphasis on gaining materials and income out of the land that they colonised and as a result suppress there culture on the indians rather than spending a lot of time killing the native indians that lived in their country.. as a result it was all about money. People like indra gandhi, brought a better understanding amongst the british and his native indians which helped the british to give the independence to india during 1947 thanks to the indian national congress which was set up to talk only. This clearly shows that the british were willing to actually listen to the indians unlike now. Israel is not willingly to listen to palestinians they have breached more ceasefires more agreements than the opposite they are also known to be breaching many UN resolution and as a result aint nowhere as a democratic country as its allys the U.S and most especially U.K. I have already shown in my previous posts how they were the first to have breached the oslo agreement.
    PhRoZeN sorry for that i will say but your your country is not so inocent as you say. During the Britan Occupation in Palestine after the fall of Othomans, it had
    come the most mass of Jewish in the Palestine and Britan didn't do anything to stop them. After that you know what happened....
     
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    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #477
    joe5 said:
    You have right on this Rebel but if you have lived in Europe and you watched the T.V. news the reporters always say that Palestinians blow up themselves and don't help for the Peace and they show them like "terrorists". I haven't saw anytime on T.V. the Israelish that make raids against inocent Palestinians and trrorize them. It isn't fault of Europeans that because they see only this stuff on T.V. and not the other side. But know that there are many peaple in Europe who are opened-minded and look for the truth out there.
    I don't blame European people, Joe. I just want them just to read more about the issue and not to be convinced only by what's show in their TVs...

    joe5 said:
    Thanks to this thread i think many peaple have learned and the other side, the side of Palestinians. So Keep posting.:)
    Very nice to know that you like it :tup: :tup:

    May I ask where you are from??
     

    PhRoZeN

    Livin with Mediocre
    Mar 29, 2006
    15,893
    joe5 said:
    PhRoZeN sorry for that i will say but your your country is not so inocent as you say. During the Britan Occupation in Palestine after the fall of Othomans, it had
    come the most mass of Jewish in the Palestine and Britan didn't do anything to stop them. After that you know what happened....
    Agree to a certain extent, BTW I dont really regard it much of my country.. nevertheless there was killings and oppression done by british forces too, but what I am trying to say to the least is that it cannot be compared to what israel is doing to palestine. The british play there games very well and I still stand by my claim that in most cases it was about money which is why they didnt stop the jewish.
     
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