Well said Ian. I was hinting on that earlier But couldn't say it like you. Well done.
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A Pathetic democracy!!! (10 Viewers)
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Yes i do ..... Even if Fatah or some other party was elected, violence wont stop.... No one can stop the blood spill, unless both parties sit down and equally engage into the peace process.
As we all know, or at least some of us do, Fatah and Hamas are not the best of friends, and they'll never be because of their different political beliefes... So every time Fatah engaged into a fire sieze Hamas screwed it up for them, and of course Israil was always ready for hitting back even though they knew it wasnt the goverment, i.e. Fatah , and everyone knew that it wasnt the goverment, but Israli kept bombing and killing innocent Palasentians, just to make e'm feel better.
So its not about who governs Palestine, and it will never be the case.... Israil wants the Palastenians to be arm-less so they can do what ever they want with them....
This time around, its Hamas and not Fatah,... So if Israil is really smart, and really wants the peace process to go forword, they've gotta win Hamas... Cuz sitting on a table with a Hamas leader is a victory by it self.... a fire sieze with Hamas will probably mean a 70% success. and thats relatively good.....
But the truth is, Israil doesnt want this to happen, they dont want the palastenians to unite, they wanna keep them shatered in a civil conflict...
as andy said
As we all know, or at least some of us do, Fatah and Hamas are not the best of friends, and they'll never be because of their different political beliefes... So every time Fatah engaged into a fire sieze Hamas screwed it up for them, and of course Israil was always ready for hitting back even though they knew it wasnt the goverment, i.e. Fatah , and everyone knew that it wasnt the goverment, but Israli kept bombing and killing innocent Palasentians, just to make e'm feel better.
So its not about who governs Palestine, and it will never be the case.... Israil wants the Palastenians to be arm-less so they can do what ever they want with them....
This time around, its Hamas and not Fatah,... So if Israil is really smart, and really wants the peace process to go forword, they've gotta win Hamas... Cuz sitting on a table with a Hamas leader is a victory by it self.... a fire sieze with Hamas will probably mean a 70% success. and thats relatively good.....
But the truth is, Israil doesnt want this to happen, they dont want the palastenians to unite, they wanna keep them shatered in a civil conflict...
as andy said
So, Hamas is justified in using terrorism to hurt political enemies, not even Israel? That's ridiculous. And furthermore, there is a reason that you don't negotiate with terrorist. Terrorism is a last-ditch effort. If there were another way to go, why would you kill people? Hamas' stated goal is the destruction of Israel. How can there be a satisfactory negotiation when the goal of one party is the destruction of the other?
And for your information, Israel does not bomb anybody to "make e'm feel better", they are under attack from terrorists acting with the support (or at least) allowance of the government of Palestine. If your neighbor's son kills your dog, you're going to pissed at your neighbor, even if he didn't tell his son to kill your dog. Now, if your neighbor dies and his son resides in that house, will you let your dog go out and play?
Israel wants Palestine de-armed, so they stop blowing shit up. Israel is really not all that concerned with exploiting Palestinians. In fact, Palestine has Israel to thank for the economic progress in the region.
And for your information, Israel does not bomb anybody to "make e'm feel better", they are under attack from terrorists acting with the support (or at least) allowance of the government of Palestine. If your neighbor's son kills your dog, you're going to pissed at your neighbor, even if he didn't tell his son to kill your dog. Now, if your neighbor dies and his son resides in that house, will you let your dog go out and play?
Israel wants Palestine de-armed, so they stop blowing shit up. Israel is really not all that concerned with exploiting Palestinians. In fact, Palestine has Israel to thank for the economic progress in the region.
Im not suprised at all the Hamas won and are now in the goverment..
The Palestine people are tierd of waiting for there freedom, and its never coming, atleast not by negotiation... They have been trying to negotiate for 40 years but nothing is happening.. Its still the same.. NO freedom, No human rights, NO free and independent Palestine..
So most of them votet for Hamas.. The wanna try in a diffrent way, BOMBING israel.. Thats the only way u can deal with them.. How can you negotiate with people that stole your land??
The Palestine people are tierd of waiting for there freedom, and its never coming, atleast not by negotiation... They have been trying to negotiate for 40 years but nothing is happening.. Its still the same.. NO freedom, No human rights, NO free and independent Palestine..
So most of them votet for Hamas.. The wanna try in a diffrent way, BOMBING israel.. Thats the only way u can deal with them.. How can you negotiate with people that stole your land??
I can't see that happening, Andy. The United States of America aren't just a bit more powerful than any other nation in the world; they are more powerful than the forces of the EU and the former USSR combined. There is no way a war in a relatively small nation such as Iran is going to cause the downfall of a giant. All you need is a well-thought out economic plan and all will be peachy; barring the loss of lives on either side.
A downfall? Highly unlikely and, from a European point of view at least, highly undesireable. Europe lies at the heart of the single most unstable part of the planet. Europe is Atlantis. And Europe needs the USA to defend itself. No matter what the criticism from this side of the big Pont, in the end we will support you because we have to. And with the EU being the world's largest economy; it's really the only trading partner the US needs to keep its head above water in dire economic times that *will* be temporary.
A downfall? Highly unlikely and, from a European point of view at least, highly undesireable. Europe lies at the heart of the single most unstable part of the planet. Europe is Atlantis. And Europe needs the USA to defend itself. No matter what the criticism from this side of the big Pont, in the end we will support you because we have to. And with the EU being the world's largest economy; it's really the only trading partner the US needs to keep its head above water in dire economic times that *will* be temporary.
Save that speech for someone else who doesn't know alot about this topic.
Saying "Israel does not bomb anybody to make e'm feel better" Thats BS If you ask me. They DO bomb to make themselves feel better and to put the palestinians back into their place. Sharon's face must be familiar and you probably know him so saying Israel doesn't bomb to make themselves feel better is wrong. Infact, there's nobody that can compete with them when it comes to bombing.
Hell, Even in Lebanon the war has been over and still they're messing around bombing our boarders almost every-week...what do you call this????
Israeli wants palestine de-armed to stop blowing themselves??? give me a break.
What kind of logic is that???? I take your weapon but you're not allowed to take mine, so this gives me the chance to keep raping your wife bombing your lands everyday stealing from here and there and etc.....Indeed, what a logic.
Palestine has to thank Israeli???? are you kidding me?
Do you really have any Idea how these people are starving everyday, noo food, no electricity no water, Nothing....and you say they should thank them...!!!!
P.s what economic progress you talking about here....I actually see no improvement.
TBH, I don't know why would palestinians ever thank Israeli's, the day they can PROBABLY or MAYBE thank them is the day they allow all these refugees to return back to their home-land. thats maybe.
Saying "Israel does not bomb anybody to make e'm feel better" Thats BS If you ask me. They DO bomb to make themselves feel better and to put the palestinians back into their place. Sharon's face must be familiar and you probably know him so saying Israel doesn't bomb to make themselves feel better is wrong. Infact, there's nobody that can compete with them when it comes to bombing.
Hell, Even in Lebanon the war has been over and still they're messing around bombing our boarders almost every-week...what do you call this????
Israeli wants palestine de-armed to stop blowing themselves??? give me a break.
What kind of logic is that???? I take your weapon but you're not allowed to take mine, so this gives me the chance to keep raping your wife bombing your lands everyday stealing from here and there and etc.....Indeed, what a logic.
Palestine has to thank Israeli???? are you kidding me?
Do you really have any Idea how these people are starving everyday, noo food, no electricity no water, Nothing....and you say they should thank them...!!!!
P.s what economic progress you talking about here....I actually see no improvement.
TBH, I don't know why would palestinians ever thank Israeli's, the day they can PROBABLY or MAYBE thank them is the day they allow all these refugees to return back to their home-land. thats maybe.
I liked how you converted the meaning of democracy to fit your nice imagination...
Democracy does include submitting to the rule of law, but you have to be accurate, we mean by the democracy in one country to be committed to the rules of that country, not another country's rules...
You can't tell me that France is not a democratic country just because they don't fit with German laws...
You have to forget that look to Palestinians as those people who should always be UNDER the Israeli laws, because if you don't know, Palestinians have their own country and their own laws which should not, by any way, be identical to those of Israel...
No, my dear...
If this is the real reason, Palestinian authorites can't accept those aids because they will be refused by the people...
Imagine somebody to tell you that he'll help you if you killed one of your children, and for what?? because he thinks of getting your house...
Will you accept??
You're right that Hamas and Palestinians as a whole should depend on themselves to get their required money because they aren't that poor and useless to wait for others to help them...
But will you clarify how Hamas championed anti-western sentiment and terrorist violence??
So true...
Well, I can assure you that Hamas can't go ahead in the peace process as if nothing happened during all the previous years...
There are more extremist fractions which still carry the gun even after Hamas made the one-sided truce with Israel...
Islamic Jihad, PFLP and Al-Aqsa Brigades (One of new Fatah groups) won't allow Hamas to make the same mistakes done by Fatah all the last years...
And what if the other party came JUST to erase your people's identity from the worldwide map??
And who are you to identify who the terrorist is??
Did you hear of Sabra and Shatila, Der Yasin, Qebia, Kafr Qasem, ......?
I think you just have to read more about this conflict, mate...
Then come and give an explanation about why the Palestinians are terrorists while Israelis are not...
Take your time... I'm not in hurry...
Is your dog immortal?? Haven't he died in the second line?? I don't get your example...
As I said before, take your time reading, man...
Did you see a lamb thanking the wolf that ate it??
I'm sorry, but your sentence just reveals how much you're knowledgable about the Middle East issue...
Take you time, eh??
I don't think so, mate...
He may tell us what he knew about them after he reads abit about the whole issue...
Exactly...
All of them are valid points and very well-said too...
Democracy does include submitting to the rule of law, but you have to be accurate, we mean by the democracy in one country to be committed to the rules of that country, not another country's rules...
You can't tell me that France is not a democratic country just because they don't fit with German laws...
You have to forget that look to Palestinians as those people who should always be UNDER the Israeli laws, because if you don't know, Palestinians have their own country and their own laws which should not, by any way, be identical to those of Israel...
No, my dear...
If this is the real reason, Palestinian authorites can't accept those aids because they will be refused by the people...
Imagine somebody to tell you that he'll help you if you killed one of your children, and for what?? because he thinks of getting your house...
Will you accept??
You're right that Hamas and Palestinians as a whole should depend on themselves to get their required money because they aren't that poor and useless to wait for others to help them...
But will you clarify how Hamas championed anti-western sentiment and terrorist violence??
So true...
Well, I can assure you that Hamas can't go ahead in the peace process as if nothing happened during all the previous years...
There are more extremist fractions which still carry the gun even after Hamas made the one-sided truce with Israel...
Islamic Jihad, PFLP and Al-Aqsa Brigades (One of new Fatah groups) won't allow Hamas to make the same mistakes done by Fatah all the last years...
And what if the other party came JUST to erase your people's identity from the worldwide map??
And who are you to identify who the terrorist is??
Did you hear of Sabra and Shatila, Der Yasin, Qebia, Kafr Qasem, ......?
I think you just have to read more about this conflict, mate...
Then come and give an explanation about why the Palestinians are terrorists while Israelis are not...
Take your time... I'm not in hurry...
Is your dog immortal?? Haven't he died in the second line?? I don't get your example...
As I said before, take your time reading, man...
Did you see a lamb thanking the wolf that ate it??
I'm sorry, but your sentence just reveals how much you're knowledgable about the Middle East issue...
Take you time, eh??
I don't think so, mate...
He may tell us what he knew about them after he reads abit about the whole issue...
Exactly...
All of them are valid points and very well-said too...
I never said anything about a complete downfall of the United States, as that would be absurd, considering the circumstances. However, if Bush were to use nuclear devices to combat another nation's development of nuclear devices - which, by the way, is a mere conjecture - there will undoubtedly be a shit storm and we will have far more enemies than we have now. As you stated, however, Europe does need our support and with our economic ties there is no way any of the European powers will militarily challenge our decisions in the Middle East. That goes without saying..
The only way the world would see the downfall of the United States would be if Al Qaeda committed a terrorist attack of much greater magnitude than 9/11...we are talking about nuclear devices being set off in multiple cities here. But even that might not lead to our downfall.
The only way the world would see the downfall of the United States would be if Al Qaeda committed a terrorist attack of much greater magnitude than 9/11...we are talking about nuclear devices being set off in multiple cities here. But even that might not lead to our downfall.
'We would rather starve'
Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh has said the country's Hamas government would not be brought down by financial pressure from what he called an "unholy alliance" led by the United States.
"We will eat cooking oil and olives," Haniyeh said of the Palestinian people on Friday.
Hamas was elected to power in a landslide election win in January.
Haniyeh said the US and its allies were mistaken if they thought the newly sworn-in government would fall in four to six weeks because of the aid cuts.
"This government will continue for the full four years," said Haniyeh, speaking at Gaza's biggest refugee camp, where poverty and unemployment were rampant long before the European Union and the US froze direct assistance to the Palestinian Authority.
Thousands of supporters at the camp chanted Haniyeh's name in unison.
They criticised the US, the EU and Israel, which has cut off tax revenue transfers, screaming "Shame on you".
Speaking through a loudspeaker, one crowd member said: "If our people starve, we will blow up our bodies in the depths of the Zionist entity".
Hamas says it inherited a Palestinian Authority with empty coffers and more than $1.3bn (about R10.5bn) in government debts.
Unable to pay March salaries to 140 000 government workers, Hamas has stepped up appeals to Arab states to make up for the loss of Western funds.
Palestinian finance minister Omar Abdel-Razek said that, without that money, the Palestinian economy could collapse in three to four months and this would spark a humanitarian crisis and chaos.
Like the US, the EU has severed political contacts with Hamas-led Palestine.
Haniyeh said some countries in the EU had made contact with the Hamas government, but he did not identify the countries by name.
Haniyeh said: "The aim of these pressures and this siege is to win political concessions.
"They will not win political concessions from us that will harm the rights of our people.
"We won't surrender, and all the attempts to isolate the government will not succeed."
Palestinian officials said the US has warned banks operating in the West Bank and Gaza against transferring any money to the government.
Palestinian officials said the US has warned banks operating in the West Bank and Gaza against transferring any money to the government.
----------------------------------------------------------
USA is doing another dirty mission to serve Israel...
But I was so comforted with Hamas reaction until now...
Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh has said the country's Hamas government would not be brought down by financial pressure from what he called an "unholy alliance" led by the United States.
"We will eat cooking oil and olives," Haniyeh said of the Palestinian people on Friday.
Hamas was elected to power in a landslide election win in January.
Haniyeh said the US and its allies were mistaken if they thought the newly sworn-in government would fall in four to six weeks because of the aid cuts.
"This government will continue for the full four years," said Haniyeh, speaking at Gaza's biggest refugee camp, where poverty and unemployment were rampant long before the European Union and the US froze direct assistance to the Palestinian Authority.
Thousands of supporters at the camp chanted Haniyeh's name in unison.
They criticised the US, the EU and Israel, which has cut off tax revenue transfers, screaming "Shame on you".
Speaking through a loudspeaker, one crowd member said: "If our people starve, we will blow up our bodies in the depths of the Zionist entity".
Hamas says it inherited a Palestinian Authority with empty coffers and more than $1.3bn (about R10.5bn) in government debts.
Unable to pay March salaries to 140 000 government workers, Hamas has stepped up appeals to Arab states to make up for the loss of Western funds.
Palestinian finance minister Omar Abdel-Razek said that, without that money, the Palestinian economy could collapse in three to four months and this would spark a humanitarian crisis and chaos.
Like the US, the EU has severed political contacts with Hamas-led Palestine.
Haniyeh said some countries in the EU had made contact with the Hamas government, but he did not identify the countries by name.
Haniyeh said: "The aim of these pressures and this siege is to win political concessions.
"They will not win political concessions from us that will harm the rights of our people.
"We won't surrender, and all the attempts to isolate the government will not succeed."
Palestinian officials said the US has warned banks operating in the West Bank and Gaza against transferring any money to the government.
Palestinian officials said the US has warned banks operating in the West Bank and Gaza against transferring any money to the government.
----------------------------------------------------------
USA is doing another dirty mission to serve Israel...
But I was so comforted with Hamas reaction until now...
Fuck you. I used the meaning of the word democracy quite accurately. Democracy does not work properly without accepting the rule of law or peaceful transfer of power. If you want a government that will use violence for political gain, and break international law at will, that's not a democratic government.
I will tell you France does not have a democracy. France is a republic. Get your shit striaght. And I'm not speaking of applying western democracy to Palestine, I was speaking on the issue in political science terms.
You are forgetting the point. If Palecstine wants to have it's own government of terrorists, that's their right as a nation, IMO. But, if they want to call that government a democracy, I have a problem with that.
That doesn't make any sense. The Palestinians have nothing to offer, except to stop blowing shit up. I don't care if that has economic consequences, it's the right thing to do.
Hamas is a terrorist group. Hamas has a network of terrorist, by which they blow up shit in Israel. Just because they have a political arm does not make them less of a terrorist group. It's the same with Sinn Fein and the IRA.
I was waiting for that:
Before the Zionist movement, Palestine was not even a nation in the strict sense of the word. Palestine was a waisted region of lawlessness, loosely associated as Southern Syria.
The argument that the Palestinians were there before the Israelis is false in many ways. First, the Israelis predate the Palestinians, having conquered the land from the Canaanites, who were assimilated into the Israeli state. Second, Palestine is a pan-arabic movement, a large part of the Palestinian population was born in another arab country.
It is my ascertion that today, that neither side has a credible claim to the land, and that the only binding agreement is the Oslo accord. This drew boundaries, but these boundaries were violated by the Israelis. While this is an act of agression, the terrorism didn't stop and the Palestinians had been murdering Israelis since before they were a nation. I don't remember anything about the early Zionists stepping off the boat with an army to wipe out Arabs.
Furthermore, Israel did not evict Arabs from their lands, but rather they fled during the War of Israeli Independance, which was started by a bunch of Arab countries.
Basically, Israel and Palestine can both be called terrorist organisations. But, there is a more precise term that can be used for Israel, it's called a nation. Israel is a nation because it uses an army and there is no concrete evidence to suggest that they deliberately target civilians. On the other hand, there is a cohesive terrorist war against Israel, by Palestine, where they use plainclothes murderers to target civilians with the goal of demoralisation. That's terrorism.
Indeed, even if Israel also kills civilians, the Palestinians had better realise this happens because they use terrorism, blending their civilian population with their military arm. How is Israel to fight a war (and wars are fought when one nation tries to destory another, it's not right, so the question of right war or wrong war doesn't really apply), without attacking the enemy? If the enemy hides himself in the civilian population, then civilians will be hurt. You can pretty easily attack the Israeli military without large civilian casualties, even using terrorist tactics. But, does Palestine do that? No. They blow up school buses and cafe's.
You have many dogs. Basically, Fatah is the father, Hamas the son. The dogs are Israel's buses and cafe's. Get it now?
As I said before, fuck you.
You're preaching a myth. Palestine was nothing begin with, and the Palestinians lost what part they could have had in Israel.
And you reveal a very slanted and biased viewpoint on this issue. Furthermore, you show a willingness to believe propaganda and you're not looking at the historical picture.
Your aloof and disrespectful manner is not becoming of a good debater, and I don't appreciate it. You may think what you want about my opinions, but please don't call me ignorant.
I have heard of Lehi and of Irgun. I was required to read on the subject in university. The difference between those groups and Hamas is that Israel has those groups under control and does not allow them to pursue terrorist violence, whereas Palestine as no such claim.
I will tell you France does not have a democracy. France is a republic. Get your shit striaght. And I'm not speaking of applying western democracy to Palestine, I was speaking on the issue in political science terms.
You are forgetting the point. If Palecstine wants to have it's own government of terrorists, that's their right as a nation, IMO. But, if they want to call that government a democracy, I have a problem with that.
That doesn't make any sense. The Palestinians have nothing to offer, except to stop blowing shit up. I don't care if that has economic consequences, it's the right thing to do.
Hamas is a terrorist group. Hamas has a network of terrorist, by which they blow up shit in Israel. Just because they have a political arm does not make them less of a terrorist group. It's the same with Sinn Fein and the IRA.
I was waiting for that:
Before the Zionist movement, Palestine was not even a nation in the strict sense of the word. Palestine was a waisted region of lawlessness, loosely associated as Southern Syria.
The argument that the Palestinians were there before the Israelis is false in many ways. First, the Israelis predate the Palestinians, having conquered the land from the Canaanites, who were assimilated into the Israeli state. Second, Palestine is a pan-arabic movement, a large part of the Palestinian population was born in another arab country.
It is my ascertion that today, that neither side has a credible claim to the land, and that the only binding agreement is the Oslo accord. This drew boundaries, but these boundaries were violated by the Israelis. While this is an act of agression, the terrorism didn't stop and the Palestinians had been murdering Israelis since before they were a nation. I don't remember anything about the early Zionists stepping off the boat with an army to wipe out Arabs.
Furthermore, Israel did not evict Arabs from their lands, but rather they fled during the War of Israeli Independance, which was started by a bunch of Arab countries.
Basically, Israel and Palestine can both be called terrorist organisations. But, there is a more precise term that can be used for Israel, it's called a nation. Israel is a nation because it uses an army and there is no concrete evidence to suggest that they deliberately target civilians. On the other hand, there is a cohesive terrorist war against Israel, by Palestine, where they use plainclothes murderers to target civilians with the goal of demoralisation. That's terrorism.
Indeed, even if Israel also kills civilians, the Palestinians had better realise this happens because they use terrorism, blending their civilian population with their military arm. How is Israel to fight a war (and wars are fought when one nation tries to destory another, it's not right, so the question of right war or wrong war doesn't really apply), without attacking the enemy? If the enemy hides himself in the civilian population, then civilians will be hurt. You can pretty easily attack the Israeli military without large civilian casualties, even using terrorist tactics. But, does Palestine do that? No. They blow up school buses and cafe's.
You have many dogs. Basically, Fatah is the father, Hamas the son. The dogs are Israel's buses and cafe's. Get it now?
As I said before, fuck you.
You're preaching a myth. Palestine was nothing begin with, and the Palestinians lost what part they could have had in Israel.
And you reveal a very slanted and biased viewpoint on this issue. Furthermore, you show a willingness to believe propaganda and you're not looking at the historical picture.
Your aloof and disrespectful manner is not becoming of a good debater, and I don't appreciate it. You may think what you want about my opinions, but please don't call me ignorant.
I have heard of Lehi and of Irgun. I was required to read on the subject in university. The difference between those groups and Hamas is that Israel has those groups under control and does not allow them to pursue terrorist violence, whereas Palestine as no such claim.
Hamas 1- accepted the rule of law, 2- and worked successfully on the peacefyl transfer of power. Hamas never used violence for political gain, cuz 80% of palestineans are already with Hamas. And when did Hamas break international law? Breaking an international law means that u assault, or attempt to assault another country without any sort of obvious Intimidation from that country..... and by the way the sort of goverment ur talking about is the Israeli goverment not the Palestenian one.
Democracy is : 1-Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives. (Hamas was elected democraticly under the survaillance of the EU and the US, and they've got the a legislation council, Majlis Tashreei, that passes laws and puts teh goverment under ongomg questioning)
2- The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. (Legislation council, as i said before)
3- Majority rule. (Hamas won by the majority of the Palestinians, u gotta keep that in mind
4-The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community are maintained within this democracy. (Well, that can be provided by allowing the Palestinians to have their own State with its 1967 boarders kept intact, nothing of that can be provided with Israel working independently and building walls all over the place just because they feel they r more superior to the Pals)
Pals are arme less for gods sake...They are so fucking arm less, cant u get it... Hamas had to do something about it... Pals dont have F 16s or Nuclear shit, many havent got the essential needs of life for fuck's sake.... cant u see the difference between the arms of Israel and Palestine.. cant u see it.... do u expect Pals to sit and watch while the're being blown up by some manicas who care about nothing but their so called "clearing of the Holy Land".... when an F 16 attacks a building with no one inside it but women and children waiting for their beloved husbans and fathers to come home so they can have dinner and then sleep in peace together, when that happens, and it happens almost everyday, will u just repeat what Ihood Olmart usually says, or what Sharon used to say that they where looking for Potential terrorists, or will u just say: shit happens...... I would call it exteame terrorisim, and i would also call for Hamas to do its job... otherwise who would take revenge... Peace can be made when the Powerfull decides it can be made, thats why until now there aint no peace.
Dude, dont fuck up history...... the Arab world wasnt made into nations until the brits and the french came in after the fall of the Ottman empire in 1916.... Even when the Islamic nation was at its peak of power Palestine had its share of attention... It was always gaurded with the heaviest of arms and had its own Ameer(ruler) for most of the Islamic period which indicates how important it was to the Islamic nation.... Even when the frech and brits divided the arabs into nations, they didnt include Palestine into Jordan (the southern syria ur talkin about), or at least not all of it.
Predate?...
1- 14th century BC : Egyptian power began to weaken, new invaders appeared: the Hebrews, a group of Semitic tribes from Mesopotamia, and the Philistines (after whom the country was later named), an Aegean people of Indo-European stock.
2- 1125 BC : The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated the Canaanites but found the struggle with the Philistines more difficult . Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.
3- 1050 BC : Philistines with there superior in military organization and using iron weapons, they severely defeated the Israelites about 1050 BC .
4- 1000 BC : David, Israel's great king, finally defeated the Philistines.
So how on earth can u say that the Hebrews predate the palestinians?????
Palestine is not a movement pal.... its the name of the country.... Zionisim is a movement.
and when u say most of the palestinians were born outside Palestine, On what do u base that? Didnt u know that most of the Palestinas were forced to leave their home country in 1948? so where do u expect them to be born? ... r u saying that because most palestinians were born outside Palestine, they dont deserve their country back ... is that somekind of a joke or what?
U dont.... ?? well i do.... Havent u seen any of the UK soldiers' black and white movies, where the Zionist comes in with his gun guarded by 10 Brit soldiers just to kick a palestenian out of his house, as well as burn his farm cuz THAt Zionist had a license whereas the Palestinan wasnt issued one.... the Zionists didnt do it alone pal... they did it with the british.
They didnt??!!.. where did u read history from??.... Israelis burned down the palestinians' houses and farms.. They didnt have anything to live with, so in a way or another they did kick out the Palestinians.. they had two options, either to stay and starve to death or send their youth to neighbouring countries to work.....
Independence my ass!!.... A nation becomes independent if it had roots and history in that part of the world that they're gonna become independent in... What did Zionists have to become independent? Most of them were lower class citizins in Russia, eastern Europe and Gremany, where they've never seen palestine or even know where it was on the map ..... Zionists didnt flee their home countries cuz they were looking to bring back their jewish glory shit.. They were more in need for shelter and a better life style.....
WTF.... No concrete evidence!!!!!!!!, i dont blame u ... ur media is sooo screwd up that they only show the Palestenins killing others...
In 1948, Palestinins didnt use Bombs to provoke Israel to hit back....... Israelis at that time killed Palestinins for nothing.. The palestinins didnt even have hand guns to protect themselves... Israel doesnt take suicide bombers as a reason to bomb palestini civilians.... They just do it.
An eye for an eye, my freind.... Israel never target militants.... In every 100 palestinians killed there is just one militant....
Was nothing!!!!!, Israel was nothing to begin with.... Israelis were people without land.....
Democracy is : 1-Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives. (Hamas was elected democraticly under the survaillance of the EU and the US, and they've got the a legislation council, Majlis Tashreei, that passes laws and puts teh goverment under ongomg questioning)
2- The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. (Legislation council, as i said before)
3- Majority rule. (Hamas won by the majority of the Palestinians, u gotta keep that in mind
4-The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community are maintained within this democracy. (Well, that can be provided by allowing the Palestinians to have their own State with its 1967 boarders kept intact, nothing of that can be provided with Israel working independently and building walls all over the place just because they feel they r more superior to the Pals)
Pals are arme less for gods sake...They are so fucking arm less, cant u get it... Hamas had to do something about it... Pals dont have F 16s or Nuclear shit, many havent got the essential needs of life for fuck's sake.... cant u see the difference between the arms of Israel and Palestine.. cant u see it.... do u expect Pals to sit and watch while the're being blown up by some manicas who care about nothing but their so called "clearing of the Holy Land".... when an F 16 attacks a building with no one inside it but women and children waiting for their beloved husbans and fathers to come home so they can have dinner and then sleep in peace together, when that happens, and it happens almost everyday, will u just repeat what Ihood Olmart usually says, or what Sharon used to say that they where looking for Potential terrorists, or will u just say: shit happens...... I would call it exteame terrorisim, and i would also call for Hamas to do its job... otherwise who would take revenge... Peace can be made when the Powerfull decides it can be made, thats why until now there aint no peace.
Dude, dont fuck up history...... the Arab world wasnt made into nations until the brits and the french came in after the fall of the Ottman empire in 1916.... Even when the Islamic nation was at its peak of power Palestine had its share of attention... It was always gaurded with the heaviest of arms and had its own Ameer(ruler) for most of the Islamic period which indicates how important it was to the Islamic nation.... Even when the frech and brits divided the arabs into nations, they didnt include Palestine into Jordan (the southern syria ur talkin about), or at least not all of it.
Predate?...
1- 14th century BC : Egyptian power began to weaken, new invaders appeared: the Hebrews, a group of Semitic tribes from Mesopotamia, and the Philistines (after whom the country was later named), an Aegean people of Indo-European stock.
2- 1125 BC : The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated the Canaanites but found the struggle with the Philistines more difficult . Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.
3- 1050 BC : Philistines with there superior in military organization and using iron weapons, they severely defeated the Israelites about 1050 BC .
4- 1000 BC : David, Israel's great king, finally defeated the Philistines.
So how on earth can u say that the Hebrews predate the palestinians?????
Palestine is not a movement pal.... its the name of the country.... Zionisim is a movement.
and when u say most of the palestinians were born outside Palestine, On what do u base that? Didnt u know that most of the Palestinas were forced to leave their home country in 1948? so where do u expect them to be born? ... r u saying that because most palestinians were born outside Palestine, they dont deserve their country back ... is that somekind of a joke or what?
U dont.... ?? well i do.... Havent u seen any of the UK soldiers' black and white movies, where the Zionist comes in with his gun guarded by 10 Brit soldiers just to kick a palestenian out of his house, as well as burn his farm cuz THAt Zionist had a license whereas the Palestinan wasnt issued one.... the Zionists didnt do it alone pal... they did it with the british.
They didnt??!!.. where did u read history from??.... Israelis burned down the palestinians' houses and farms.. They didnt have anything to live with, so in a way or another they did kick out the Palestinians.. they had two options, either to stay and starve to death or send their youth to neighbouring countries to work.....
Independence my ass!!.... A nation becomes independent if it had roots and history in that part of the world that they're gonna become independent in... What did Zionists have to become independent? Most of them were lower class citizins in Russia, eastern Europe and Gremany, where they've never seen palestine or even know where it was on the map ..... Zionists didnt flee their home countries cuz they were looking to bring back their jewish glory shit.. They were more in need for shelter and a better life style.....
WTF.... No concrete evidence!!!!!!!!, i dont blame u ... ur media is sooo screwd up that they only show the Palestenins killing others...
In 1948, Palestinins didnt use Bombs to provoke Israel to hit back....... Israelis at that time killed Palestinins for nothing.. The palestinins didnt even have hand guns to protect themselves... Israel doesnt take suicide bombers as a reason to bomb palestini civilians.... They just do it.
An eye for an eye, my freind.... Israel never target militants.... In every 100 palestinians killed there is just one militant....
Was nothing!!!!!, Israel was nothing to begin with.... Israelis were people without land.....
Well said so far, Rebel.
I just have a small point which I disagree on, and that is about "Sabra and Shatilla".....The Genocide was NOT only set by Israeli's but also Syrians...
Hafez al Assad was the first one to come up with this Idea and he gave the green light to Sharon to do that. It was an agreement between them after the conflict between, Arafat(Abu amar) and Hafez al Assad that saw lot of battles between them so the Sabra and Shatilla thing was a reply from Hafez part to Arafat...Though we can't deny that there was a big dirty hand Israeli on it.
I just have a small point which I disagree on, and that is about "Sabra and Shatilla".....The Genocide was NOT only set by Israeli's but also Syrians...
Hafez al Assad was the first one to come up with this Idea and he gave the green light to Sharon to do that. It was an agreement between them after the conflict between, Arafat(Abu amar) and Hafez al Assad that saw lot of battles between them so the Sabra and Shatilla thing was a reply from Hafez part to Arafat...Though we can't deny that there was a big dirty hand Israeli on it.
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