++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++
Am back!!...
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Majed:
I don't know if you really know the history of the profit Mohammad....
It All started with Mohammad's Grand-father "Qusay Ebn Kilab " who Himself was the first in Mohammad's Family to Claim that he is a Profit But it didn't reall work because circumstances didn't help him and he wasn't Smart Enough Unlike the Profit Mohammad...
So it was Something Like a project in the family and the Profit Mohammad was the one to acomplish it...The Profit was a very patriotic man and one of the smartes People a planet have known, Some say that he ignorant and this is Completly foolish, because he knew how to right and read FOUR languages...
Zambrotta pretty much said enough, thank you, but i'll highlight your false claims.
- Mohammed PBUH's grandfather was Abd-Almuttalib bin Hashem.
-You're assumption that this was a family project negates your own belief that Mohammed PBUH was indeed a prophet.
- I don't understand the last statement quite well. Anyhow, Mohammed PBUH was illiterate. He could not read or write. Before his revelation, he was well respected by everyone. The pagans even used to call him "Al9adg" and "Alamin" meaning the truthfull and trustworthy.
I'd really like for you to name those other three languages that he supposedly spoke.
Profit Mohamad Lived in a time when Arabs where the only ones in the area ( Middle East ) without a religion and they where in a big need of a religion because they felt real week without it...
There were Jews in Makkah and Al-Madinah (was called "Yathrib" at that time)
The Profit god married to { Khadija } who was 13 years older then him, but she was a very rich woman and she was the one who helped him with her Money to make this project to be accomplished.
I'm pretty sure she was 15 years his senior.
Again, you speak of this is as if it was his plan all along.
Please explain how her money helped him in anyway with his message. Mohammed PBUH was persecuted till he had to leave his home...
and again, you say that he was a prohet sent by Allah, then you make these assumptions like it's a family plan?! explain!
There were 2 arabic tribes ( Al kaws and Al khazraj ) those trabs were Formed by 2 brothers but in time some Problems took place between them and ever since they were having bloody wars and there wasn't any chance for them to make it up and what made it worse those tribs Lived Near the Jewss whom always told them that an arab profit will appear and he will be send for the jews not for the arabs, So when the Profit started his message only 32 people believed in him at the begining!!
But then he went to one of the tribs ( Al khazraj ) and told them abouthis message the new religion so they thought it was their chance to take this Profit before the Jews do because they believed in the Profecy of the Jews, So ( Al khazraj ) and ( Al kaws ) Agreed to take the Islam as a religion for them and this is when the number of muslims Really Increased as those Tribs where really Big.....
It's "Al-Aws" not "Alkaws.," and they along with Al-khazraj were in Yathrib.
No, The Jews THOUGHT/ASSUMED that the prohet will be sent to them in a desert with many palm trees (which matched Yathrib).
the people who believed in him at the begining were firstly from Makkah. People like his wife Khadijah, his uncle's son Ali bin Abi Talib, and Abu Bakr. The part about the Jews had nothing to do with the small number who believed in him. Like you said later, his message of one god and no pagans would harm trade in Makkah.
Only after years of abuse by his people in Makkah did the prophet make the emigration to Madina/Yathrib. He chose Madina because word of his message had already spread there and he knew that he would be welcomed. That's because he first met with a group from Al-Khazraj, then he met with more groups from Yathrib. Indeed, when he did arrive at Yathrib, they welcomed him and shared their homes the prophet PBUH and his companions from Makkah. He then made peace with the fighting tribes. What's important to know is that the Jews were also devided between both Al-Aws and Al-Khazraj tribes.
There's no such thing as they "wanted to take this prophet before the Jews." Upon Mohammed PBUH's arrival to Madina, peace treaties were set between all.
An After that all Arabs Started to Take this new religion because they had no one, and the only ones who fought against The Profit where People of his Trib ( Quraish ) cuz they knew what Profit came up with is nothing but a Lie ! and they thought this will harm their Business....
Nothing new here... though i think you mean "they thought.." not "they knew.."
So what The Profit Mohammad came with was really good, it was something that united all the arabs and it prevented them from Living a retard Life they had before and gave them a new challenge in a new way of Living...
Yes, the prophet Mohammed PBUH successfully united many devided tribes and he spread his message.
Anyhow the QURAAN is a great book that can be considered as a Low book based on reality and on good morals but unfortunatly once The Profit Passed away it was not the QURAAN Leading the religion anymore it was not the islam the Profit wanted it, After his death his " Kholafe2o " Ruled as they want it to, they applied their own ideas, to the religion and made the people believe that this is part of religion so what we trying to say now, " No Matter If Religion Is truly sent by god or not, It's not the religion you find in the Quraan....
Here's were we disagree with the Shia belief.
What these caliphs have applied is within the boundries of the Quran and the prohet PBUH's actions.
Please don't forget that these 4 caliphs are among the 10 whom were promissed heaven and they were the prophet's best, clostest and longest companions.
Don't confuse past and presant. The caliphs' reign was the best and most closest that Islam has ever been followed (after the prophet's time of course).
Like Zambrotta said, please give example with full proof and evidence and explanations, of so called "new ideas" that the caliphs have applied that contradict The prophet's messasge and teachings.
What we are following Now is nothing but what the ( Political men ) after the Profit had left for us so wethear you wanna believe in Islam or Not, IT IS NOT THE ISLAM OF NOWADAYS....It is the Islam that the Profit came up with But Nothing of the so-called Islam of nowadays....
This is half true, because it's no secret that governments, politics and individuals have influenced what is called Islam. However, all is not lost. You have the Quraan, and Hadith to be your guide. no excused. Allah promissed that his message will be preserved till the end of time.
If you read the Quraan and try to understand it your own withtout anyone's opinion or influence you will find the real meaning of Islam which is a message of Love and Peace to all of us as all other religious....and it doesn't matter at all if those religious where men made or sent from extraodrinary power lets say , what matters is that we could use those religions for the good NOT FOR THE WORST
Who said anything about Islam being a message of War and hate?!
We read the Quraan... we understand the message.
It seems like you still confused Islam with culture.
We know what the definition of Islam is.
Yes, we should live in harmony and peace. Where's your point?
.... and i only want to give you a simple example the European Countries back in the 16th centruy were ruled by religions and it was at that time when Europe was at it's WORST period of time in it's all History... So what the french did was the French Revolution the 1689 ( if am not mistaken ) and that was to take the power and the charge from the church and Make the ordinary ppl rule their countries and took away any kind of influence the chruch could have....
you fail to admit though that the church then was currupt and made terrible descisions.
Please note the difference between having a currupt non-applied religion as the head of state and having an applied religion as the head of state.
I highly doubt that while Europe was ruled by church, the governments applied the church's teachings.
So when Religion in Europe was Limited Europe started to get better and better and ever since Europe started to be one of the greatest Continents on earth, So i guess Arabs should do the Same and Isolate the Religion from the Power...
You guess wrong. First of all, Islam isn't just a religion. It's a way of life. Secondly, The middle east has never been so prosperous and influential to the world till Islam united their people and the place advanced. Durring the Ottoman empire, when curruption spread and Islamic teachings were put aside, the whole region slumped. You fail to mention that in Omar bin Al-Khattab's time, poverty did not exist in the whole Arabian Paninsula. They had to look for neighboring countries to pay their yearly obligatory cherity!
So whoever wants to be a good Muslim and wants to believe and to do all the conditions they are asked to is free to do that But no one has the right to rule in the name of religion and ( this is when it will get better )....
It's well known in Islam that there shall be "no compulsion in religion." Having Islam as a nation's official religion does not contradict that. For years, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived in harmony. Look at how they lived together i in Spain under Muslim rule!
anyhow i've talked too much, am kinda sleepy now...... Hope you guys got my point....
You definately did Talk a lot, but sorry, I don't see a valid point.
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