you misunderstood me (1 Viewer)

LeRoi

Junior Member
Sep 3, 2002
91
#1
The idea of trade davids and money for nesta is not mine...Moggi thought about it. Do you really think it's a bad move? I think no and I'll explain you why.

Davids wants to go away, and wants to go to Roma. He agreed with Roma last april. He refused Lazio, Arsenal (we tried to trade him for Vieira), Manchester United and so on. He wants to go to Roma.

We can make two things:

1) we can hold him until the end of his contract (his contract will expire in 2 years). After that we'll lose him and we'll gain no money. But if he'll stay here I don't know how well he'll play if he is unhappy. Last year he didn't like the way Lippi used him...and everybody saw the results: don't you remember all those red cards? Don't you remember Deportivo La coruna-Juventus of last champion's league? We lost 2-0. Davids had a stupid red card for a stupid faul and we finished the game in 10...and we lost of course. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, I'm only saying he doesnt't want to play with us, he is nervous for that, and he can't play as well as he could.

we can meke an other thing

2) If we have to sell him we could trade him for an other great player. one of them was Nesta, and Nesta was good for us because our defenders (except for tudor, but Lippi wants him to play in the midfield) are a bit old. Why don't buy Nesta? But Davids refused Lazio.
We could trade him for Vieira but Edgar refused Arsenal too.
We can only sell him to Roma, but Roma's bid is unacceptable cause Roma has the player's will...

An other thing. It isnt true Davids refused Lazio because its supporters are racist. He refused Lazio because Lazio has salary cap and he won't be able to reach the money that roma offered him (Roma offered 5 mil euro/year, more or less 1.5 more than what he gains now in juventus). It's only a money matter. If Lazio could offer him 5.0001 mil euro/year, he would be quite happy to go there.

Now we have an unhappy player, a defending line good, but old, and a stupid bid from Roma. Nice situation, eh?
But if Roma will give us a good amount of money and the young talent D'agostino (much and much and much better than D'alessandro), we can give them Davids and buy a good midfielder like Ambrosini and we will be ok.
Milan bought Nesta, Rivaldo, Seedorf and we are not afraid about it.
Inter bought Cannavaro, Crespo, Coco, Morfeo, Gamarre...and we are not afraid about it.
Why should we be afraid for davids in Roma? If we'll sign Ambrosini and a good left defender we'll be quite good, the best team of serie a.
 

s0ftcore

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2002
568
#2
What's the point of having D'agostino? I doubt he will secure a first team place... and in the end, Juve will be suckers. And Davids is sorta maybe past his prime, so in 2 years, even if he goes for nothing, at least we got everything out of him. Or maybe he will be happy and wish to see out his career at Juve... you never know.

Another thing why we shouldn't sell Davids to Roma now is because we need him. And Juve also doesnt want Roma to have the best midfield. I mean, that's kinda common sense. Lazio might have sold their best players, but don't forget their in debt so that's more of a different story.

Cheers.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#3
Great and logical points LeRoi.
I agree with what your getting to, but it still remains that juve and thier fans love Davids. i can't stand i juve without Davids.
So i think juve made the right decision to keep him for now and try to resolve the problems. If it does not work, juve will still have a year left to his contract so we can make money out of him next summer.

I know our defense is old. i've always loved Tudor and i think he is great and lippi's choice to play him in the middle is a waist of Talent. BUT, Juve have capable Defenders in Montero, Iuliano, and Thuram....My point: Buying Nesta will be great, but the price to get him is too high. his price is high + we wont have a defensive mid-fielder for next season + we have too many defenders.
So the Solution is to look for younger and less expensive defenders.

About D'Agostino, i think he's great but i think juve had Olivera planned for a long time.

i dont think juve Kept Davids because they didnt want Roma to have him...i think they kept him because they know that he is Juventus's Engine.

The matter is as confusing as my post!! the issue is not black or white.....
 
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LeRoi

Junior Member
Sep 3, 2002
91
#4
All of you are right, but think about it:
if we sell davids for a good amount of money (16 mil euro for example) and the young talent D'agostino, we'll be able to buy Zauri who is the left defender we need to complete the defender line (we could buy him trading Birindelli and 7 mil euro) and we could buy Ambrosini (18 mil euro) and we could let Blasi come here one year before what planned.

Remember an important thing:
juventus is not Real Madrid or Milan. Here a player is bought only if a player is sold. We took Di Vaio because he is good and because we needed him, but in which way we bought him? An year loan (7 mil euro) and 14 mil euro that we will pay in 3 years and a Brighi 2 years loan...financial acrobatics! Why? Because we're poor? Because Agnelli lost all his money? No, of course. It's only because the balance is the most important thing and we don't want to become the new Fiorentina.
In this transfer market we sold nobody (except for Carini for 5 mil euro), and we don't have too much money to invest.

Think about this midfield:
Blasi Ambrosini zambrotta
wow I think it's great!

You told me Olivera is planned for a long time. Of course you're right. But both Olivera and D'agostino are promises. It's better have two choises than only one.
If one of them will fail we could trade him for an other player from a less important team. Remember that buying players from Atalanta, Brescia, Perugia or teams like that is not so easy, because they always want players in exchange, and we can't give them important players that reach a lot of money. Why do you think Juventus control players like Max Vieri? Because we hope one day he'll become as his brother Cristian? No of course. Max Vieri is important to buy other players. This year we traded him to get Camoranesi.
And zanchi and Baccin? They are not promises and they are not first (or second world class palyers), but we control them. We tried to trade Zanchi to get Zauri. We'll try to trade zalayeta to get an other player. And so on.
I'm waiting for your reply, but I didn't change my mind. I think keep davids will be a mistake.
By the way Moggi understand juventus' problems much better than us, and I trust him, whatever he'll do. Moggi is great.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#7
When you sell your best players , the one thing that will surely happen is that you will fail eventually.

Your idea of selling Davids for D'agostino might be logical to some but makes no sense whatsover to me

You want to weaken a midfield which is not that good anyway for a player who may never play for Juve

What makes D'agostino great? If he was gr8 will Roma want to trade him bearing in mind that their attack is not awash with a lot of variety

How many games have you all seen this so called gr8 talent play?
Where exactly is he going to play, before Dp, or Salas, or Trez, or Divaio

Ok i get it ,sell a world class player to your main rivals, and then get a player who will start in your team in 5 years time, by that time because of your planning for future, you ignore your present and end up fighting for UEFA

Moggi knows more than everyone uh? He might be a shrewd bizness man, but nobody and i mean nobody here can convince me he is a football man

And when we finally start to drop because of his transfer policy, who will get the blame, Lippi of cos

Please no more of this nonsense about selling Davids for a player who might never play for juve
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#8
++ [ originally posted by LeRoi ] ++


Davids wants to go away, and wants to go to Roma. He agreed with Roma last april. He refused Lazio, Arsenal (we tried to trade him for Vieira), Manchester United and so on. He wants to go to Roma.
How exactly do you know this for sure, are you a close personal friend of Davids? Did he confide in you? Did he put in a written request for a transfer?

QUOTE] Last year he didn't like the way Lippi used him...and everybody saw the results: don't you remember all those red cards? Don't you remember Deportivo La coruna-Juventus of last champion's league? We lost 2-0. Davids had a stupid red card for a stupid faul and we finished the game in 10...and we lost of course.
[/QUOTE] Davids came on in the second half and we were com[pletely outplayed in that game, even if we played with one man more than Depor, we still would have lost, was it Davids that told Lippi to pick such a ridiculous starting lineup. Didnt Davids play some very good games for Juve, or did he suck as much as Zambrotta did thruout the season, but no you don't mention his good games and you don't mention Zambrottas very poor season

.
We could trade him for Vieira but Edgar refused Arsenal too.
Again how do u know this and what makes you think Viera wants to come to juve?

But if Roma will give us a good amount of money and the young talent D'agostino (much and much and much better than D'alessandro),
Where do you get all these ideas from
 
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LeRoi

Junior Member
Sep 3, 2002
91
#12
I'm not Davids' best friend, of course. But I remember this:
Arsenal-Juventus, champions league. We lost, we played quiete bad. Davids played the second part of the match. He played quiete good, to say the truth. Actually I never sayd he is a bad player.
After the match he was very angry because Lippi left him on the bench in the first half (if I don't remember bad, he entered for tudor's injury). In his interview after the match he said "If in juventus I cannot play there are a lot of other teams" and he went away. I'm sure about this, I heard it in "pressing champions league", an italian television show about champions league. I didn't red it in a newspaper or in a toilet. But if you're italian you perfectly know what I'm talking about (sorry I didn't see your details, maybe you're canadian and you don't know what the hell I'm talking about).
Well, he never said "juve **** you, I want to go away", but in the last two months, Capello, Sensi and Baldini told they want Davids. In Italy only Ronaldo's tragedy has been more popular! Everybody knows how much sensi offered and what Juventus would like from Roma. If Davids would like to stay here (only a bit at least) he would said a couple of months ago "hey guys, stop *****ing around, in juve I'm fine, i want to stay here", exactly what Ambrosini did yesterday (he said he's not interested in juve, thread closed for him).

I could even agree with you it could be dangerous selling a good player to a rival like Roma, but the point Juve doesn't want davids and Davids doesn't want juve is a manifest truth.

I didn't say or think D'agostino should replace Davids today or the next year. D'agostino is an attacker midfielder. If juventus will sell Davids they'll have to replace him with an other defender midfielder like Ambrosini, or Vieira, or Dacourt or Giannichedda or whoever they think will be able to play in that role.
If juventus will take D'agostino he'll stay where he is now: in Bari, and next year will be very hard to see him in juventus, cause now we have Oliveira (and don't forget the very good Miccoli loaned to Perugia, both attacker midfielders). He'll probably play loaned somewhere to make experience.

Well my point is davids is great and if he would like to stay here I'll be the happiest supporter in the earth, but the point is Davids doesn't want to stay here and this point is clear. He never denied he would like to go to Roma and he had to do it if it wasn't the truth.
Maybe he'll stay here because Moggi dislike Sensi, and in that case maybe Davids will try to say something like "never thought to go to Roma" or craps like that. Well, if it'll happen maybe everybody here will forget this stupid summer with Baldini's trips to Torino with sensi's unacceptable bids...and other craps like that.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#13
Frankly I am tired of all these, it seems in Italy they want Davids out of Juve, every day i come on to read all these and it seems its always the same ppl who do not want Davids.

Why don't we sell Davids, to Roma, get D'agostino, and fill our Juve with a very weak midfield and while we are at it get rid of Salas and Trez as well

Davids had said he is happy at Juve, but some ppl don't read that, they read that he si fighting with Lippi as thats good gossip.

Get rid of him at least it will make all the guys in Italy happy
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
#15
Firstly... anyone who says d'ale is not as good as d'agostino has obviously never seen d'ale play.... thats goota be some of the most nonsense ive read on this forum.
Now i am not a big d'ale fan, he has his short comings.. but he is leagues above d'agostino.
Davids had said he is happy at Juve, but some ppl don't read that, they read that he si fighting with Lippi as thats good gossip.
After the lazio game i have no doubts about davids view on lippi... it was plain to see!!

Though i agree with alot of what you say denco ,I personally think its time for edgar to go.... purely in the name of team spirit.... we dont need distractions of the kind edgar brings!!

Another reason why Moggis decision to let brighi go was a big mistake and could well come back to haunt us very very soon!!
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#16
I didn't see the Lazio game and I do not know what happened but it seems to me that neither party and in that i mean both Lippi and Davids are behaving properly

If they do not want him there , why don't they sell him and if they do why do they keep provoking him by subbing him

I have seen games where players who are playing worse that Edgar are left on the field and they keep substituting him

Its not like we are awashed with brill midfielders that we can afford to let yet another one go

Like you said letting Brighi go was foolhardy at the time and with all this Davids talk, its insane to have let him go
 

Dj Juve

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
9,597
#17
just incase if we sell Davids, who will replace him?

1) Dietmar Hamann - no no, im serious. he's good, very good in my eyes. Worthy buy. he also had a terrific WC

2) Patrick Vieira - i dont really like this guy much, but i wouldnt mind havin him at all. but he's as profilic(in gettin in trouble) as Davids, so there's really no point...

3) Get a good defender and use tudor as DM - i dont like this one much

4) van Bommel - i've never actually seen him play, but i've heard all good bout him..same with Johan Vogel...


5) Philip Cocu - another gr8 player in my eyes..but a bit different kinda player as Davids...

6) D'Augostino guy - heard good stuff bout him, but i think i rather have someone for now, instead of waiting for 4-5 years for him to develop

7) J. Zanetti/Tommassi- would cost a bomb, but terrific terrific players

8) Luciano Zauri - i heard he's a gr8 player...

9) Gattuso, - not bad

10) Steven Gerrard - he isnt rally a DM, but can play in the similiar role. injury prone though

11) Patrick Paauwe, Daniel Andersson, Stillian Petrov - not bad players as well, but im not too sure...

12) Oliver Dacourt - i still dont see what's so gr8 bout this guy....
 

Dj Juve

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
9,597
#18
a few more to add

13) Guiliano Giannichedda, Massimo Ambrosini - much talk of him replacing davids....

14) Claude Makelele, D. Zenoni, Claudio Hussain, Nicky Butt, Linderoth, Thomas Gravesan- all not bad, recommended by my thrusty CM...
 

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#19
it's quite unlikely that davids is insistent on going because the board isn't gonna keep someone to whom we pay megabucks for playing some decent football when he dosen't want to.i do not ignore the possiblity of a rift between him and lippi of course but then he would have himself to blame.he is determined to a fault and ends up on the bad side of the ref more often than not so i don't see how you can blame a coach trying to prevent his team from playing with 10 men for half of every match.
 

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