Xabi Alonso (39 Viewers)

[Dostoevsky]

That's completely besides my point, dule. I'm putting it in a larger perspective, showing the other side of the coin.

Wether or not he is good enough, there are more factors to consider. The pressure on him is almost unprecedented high(remember, he's just 21, with only one season of serie A experience, while we're all raving about him crazily and expect him to win a starting place from the get-go and be amongst the cl's and serie a's topperformers).

Also looking at former examples like Palladino (I know Giovinco is on another level), should tell is it won't be so simple for him. I mean you shout about Aguero to replace Del Piero.. What would happen if we actually signed Aguero? Aguero would get wasted. He'd have to compete with monsters like Iaquinta, Amauri and on top of that Del Piero. The Icon who'll have turin on it's head if he doesn't start for two matches in a row. Same with Giovinco, who'll have to adopt midfield role, probably Nedved's role. Who always played on power and is always kept because tactically coaches love him for his alround and defensive abilities. Giovinco is a different type of player. A player you should set loose creatively in the final third.

What competition did Ronaldo have? He was allowed to grow in his own role for three years.

Just consider these points, before you already crown Giovinco as juve's saviour.

I know what you mean but my point was that at some time it's time for a player to matture and show his quality and personalty despite all high expectations and pressure being on him.Yeah,I agree we can't call him Juve's savior yet but I'm sure we will at this time next year.

Btw I still think Palladino is talented player and I also think he's going to play very good if we sell him to some club.

Ronaldo didn't have much of a cometiton at Manure but my point was that he had to prove him at some top club(Salman,don't ban me ) while being young and will all pressure on him.

 

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[Osman]

Again, besides the point. Giovinco is good enough, of course. I'm saying that there are more factors to weigh in, which could lead to dissapointment and Giovinco not living up to expectations.

These u-21 tell us that Giovinco and Aguero are way ahead of the players of the same generation. But it doesn't say that they are ahead of the best players.

Even these type of special talents would find it difficult to find space and youngsters needs playing time, confidence and some consistency more than anything. If not, they'll over start overcomplecating to show their worth.

Anyway, I firmly beleive Giovinco has what it takes, but we can't assume anything.. these talents are so fragile.

I dont necessarily disagree, they will have a period of adapting, Aguero's first season in Atleti was about that, he "just" scored 13 with them then. But just saying you sound like you worry too much when its not that necessary (you said Aguero would be crushed and wasted in Juve for Amauri, Iaquinta, which iMO is completely unfounded).

Not jumping the gun is sound advice, and it wont be instantly smooth, but for sure these types of talents will quickly over come these types of things (unless they are mentality weak like the likes of Reyes, Navas and the rest of Sevilla youth products ).

 

[Dominic]

I know what you mean but my point was that at some time it's time for a player to matture and show his quality and personalty despite all high expectations and pressure being on him.Yeah,I agree we can't call him Juve's savior yet but I'm sure we will at this time next year.

Btw I still think Palladino is talented player and I also think he's going to play very good if we sell him to some club.

Ronaldo didn't have much of a cometiton at Manure but my point was that he had to prove him at some top club(Salman,don't ban me ) while being young and will all pressure on him.

In the end it IS to the player himself to step and show his quality, that is true. Yet we are talking of a 21- year old with little experience, it's more surprising if it did go easy.

Yes Palladino at a midtable club with some space to express his talents, will turn out to be a good player after all. He never got and never will get the appropriate space here though, and I just hope due to Giovinco being even more talented and better suited for a midfield role will prevent from the same happening to Giovinco.

But there was much less pressure on Ronaldo, he had no competition and the fans didn't know him.

 

[Dominic]

I dont necessarily disagree, they will have a period of adapting, Aguero's first season in Atleti was about that, he "just" scored 13 with them then. But just saying you sound like you worry too much when its not that necessary (you said Aguero would be crushed and wasted in Juve for Amauri, Iaquinta, which iMO is completely unfounded).

Not jumping the gun is sound advice, and it wont be instantly smooth, but for sure these types of talents will quickly over come these types of things (unless they are mentality weak like the likes of Reyes, Navas and the rest of Sevilla youth products ).

Sometimes you have to throw nuance out the window, for the sake of the point.

All in all, I think we see eye to eye on this.

 

[HelterSkelter]

@Dule

I wont ban you.Ronaldo is an exceptional talent,but he's shown his true colors in the last two season.Previously,it was a lot of skill..but very little execution.He has come off brilliantly though,and that is because Ferguson has used him in a very decent manner.Ferguson,like Wenger,does have the talent of developing youngsters,and he's done that with Ronaldo.Hopefully Ranieri can do that with Giovinco.He did it at Valencia in his first stint,and id back him to do it agian.

 

[Osman]

If they saw the friendly game against Sporting before they signed him (the game that had Fergie being told by the whole team to buy this kid NOW), then there should have been huge expectations. Watched that game in eurosport, first time I seen him, and I besides Messi, I have never been in many years so awed by a new talent. Ridicolous stuff in that game.

 

[Dominic]

I saw that game too actually . But the situation is nowhere near to all the juve fans anticipating Giovinco in a juve shirt in Serie A for 1,5 years.

 

[Osman]

Sometimes you have to throw nuance out the window, for the sake of the point.

All in all, I think we see eye to eye on this.

We only have to avoid Sevilla's mama's boys youths, and we wont have too worry too much about players crumbling under pressure


Btw, Palladino and such havent crumbled under the pressure for us. He and minor talents like him arent just good enough. And they are good examples of expecting too much from talents that arent special for top teams, but just good.

 

[HelterSkelter]

Compared to Ronaldo,Giovinco has been a slightly late bloomer.Ronaldo was bursting with talent at 17,and Giovinco has only come into the spotlight 2 years ago.But this is probably good for Giovinco.The success hasnt gone to his head the way it has to Ronaldo's head.

 

[Dostoevsky]

In the end it IS to the player himself to step and show his quality, that is true. Yet we are talking of a 21- year old with little experience, it's more surprising if it did go easy.

But there was much less pressure on Ronaldo, he had no competition and the fans didn't know him.

umpkin: Man,Ronaldo was just an example.There are many players that will have to do Gio's job though.

Abate could be someone at Milan?Cerci/Okaka could be replacements for Totti/xxx...I think experience is not the main thing in this case.Many players proved themselves without any experience.It just it just depends on the players talent and personality usually.He's choke if he's physically weak.

 

[Osman]

I saw that game too actually . But the situation is nowhere near to all the juve fans anticipating Giovinco in a juve shirt in Serie A for 1,5 years.

Indeed, we have been waiting for a new heir to Del Piero soo much that everyone gets so ridicolously excited automatically. We were lucky enough to replace magical fucker like Baggio with another magical mofo, and every since jumped and up down over the slighest mention of a new youth coming up.

Everyone from Rigoni, Chiumento, Palladino etc. Now its Giovinco (finally a worthy one, heh) and to a smaller degree Lanzafame (prolly Pasquato too soon). Bit like a mini version of the automatic mass hysteria that occurs in Argentina whenever a new midget comes through.


So yeah, the pressure is different as you said (for sure, for me too, I can quote myself saying 99% of the reason I cant wait for next season is about Gio ).

Its funny, CRon is and was such an insanely brilliant talent, but still quite unknown. Even after his dazzling first season, he was instant favourite but not messiah expectations still. But with an english player like Rooney, the mass hysteria from him was ten times more.

 

[sateeh]

That's completely besides my point, dule. I'm putting it in a larger perspective, showing the other side of the coin.

Wether or not he is good enough, there are more factors to consider. The pressure on him is almost unprecedented high(remember, he's just 21, with only one season of serie A experience, while we're all raving about him crazily and expect him to win a starting place from the get-go and be amongst the cl's and serie a's topperformers).

Also looking at former examples like Palladino (I know Giovinco is on another level), should tell is it won't be so simple for him. I mean you shout about Aguero to replace Del Piero.. What would happen if we actually signed Aguero? Aguero would get wasted. He'd have to compete with monsters like Iaquinta, Amauri and on top of that Del Piero. The Icon who'll have turin on it's head if he doesn't start for two matches in a row. Same with Giovinco, who'll have to adopt midfield role, probably Nedved's role. Who always played on power and is always kept because tactically coaches love him for his alround and defensive abilities. Giovinco is a different type of player. A player you should set loose creatively in the final third.

What competition did Ronaldo have? He was allowed to grow in his own role for three years.

Just consider these points, before you already crown Giovinco as juve's saviour.

I completely agree, the margin for error is really thin here and there is the possibility that what you outlined could occur ( and it is not a small possibility). I think the kid has an amazing amount of potential and skills both in his feet and mentally.

But we forget that the most pressure that Giovinco had to deal with is this year with the relegation fight and some matches with the azzurini and primavera. Thats why i dont think throwing him in the deep end straight away is wise. Thats where neddy staying on was so important imo.

We dont know how the kid will respond to criticism, loss of form, playing against full houses all over italy and Europe. Patience is the key here as we don't want a case of Criscito more than palladino here. Also the difference between gio and palladino is that I am sure that gio will have more impact and will not be affected as much as Raffaelle was mentally and he will come good in the games he will play.

 

[Amaurisimo]

i am sure that Giovinco is fully aware of all expectations and that he learnt a lot from last season watching juve and our young stars who did(not) perform as expected.
Also im sure CR will ease pressure on him as he always wanted him back to Juve.

 

[zann]

imo CR has a way with youngsters.... i think so. lol

 

[Zaim]

imo CR has a way with youngsters.... i think so. lol

He certainly does. He proved it with Criscito,Palladino and Nocerino . I hope he finds a new way with Giovinco,Marchisio and De Ceglie.

On-topic

I hope we can get Alonso before the euros. His price might go up and Real could swoop in.

 

[pierrelb]

He certainly does. He proved it with Criscito,Palladino and Nocerino . I hope he finds a new way with Giovinco,Marchisio and De Ceglie.

On-topic

I hope we can get Alonso before the euros. His price might go up and Real could swoop in.

it looks like they'll wait until after euros, not cuz our board wants to but because liverpool wants to see if they can boost his value.

 

[Dominic]

I completely agree, the margin for error is really thin here and there is the possibility that what you outlined could occur ( and it is not a small possibility). I think the kid has an amazing amount of potential and skills both in his feet and mentally.

But we forget that the most pressure that Giovinco had to deal with is this year with the relegation fight and some matches with the azzurini and primavera. Thats why i dont think throwing him in the deep end straight away is wise. Thats where neddy staying on was so important imo.

We dont know how the kid will respond to criticism, loss of form, playing against full houses all over italy and Europe. Patience is the key here as we don't want a case of Criscito more than palladino here. Also the difference between gio and palladino is that I am sure that gio will have more impact and will not be affected as much as Raffaelle was mentally and he will come good in the games he will play.

This is exactly what I was alluding to.

i am sure that Giovinco is fully aware of all expectations and that he learnt a lot from last season watching juve and our young stars who did(not) perform as expected.
Also im sure CR will ease pressure on him as he always wanted him back to Juve.

I am sure Palladino was aware of what was(is) needed as well, but it isn't that simple.

I hope we can get Alonso before the euros. His price might go up and Real could swoop in.

Exactly the reason Alonso, his agent and Liverpool might stall the negotiations.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

And you should go support that club on your avatar.

I do support them...

 

[ESS-Juventino]

Alanso is a great player but i don't see him as a man who will take us to a next level , don't get me wrong he is awesome and every thing but its just a .... after all if we can get VDV with a little more money am with it , if not i wish da luck for Alanso in our team ...........

Exactly what I think! Alonso is a very good player but VDV or Diego will bring us something more!

 

[Salvatore]

I think Palladino has what it takes to become really good at Juventus. He will be more quiet about it when Seba arrives though.