Wishlist and General Juve mercato talk (2011-12) (21 Viewers)

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Flamez

Flamez

Senior Member
#28,026
Feb 7, 2011
1,991
#28,026
Melo said:
1 - Well. To be honest, Marchisio was a ghost past couple of seasons.

2 - Melo was our best player last season.

3 - And yeah, Chiellini is very overrated here. He is a fine CB, but not one of the best in the world. Certainly not right now. In the future? You never know.
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1 - He was underperforming due to a couple of factors and maybe wasn't what folks expected him to be, but so what? He was still one of our best performers (and this isn't really a compliment to him). Not carrying the team we had on his back doesn't make him expendable nor average by any means.

2 - In your opinion* and I can very well accept that, even if I don't agree. Now, he wasn't much better than the "ghost" or the "retarded defender" (if at all), for example, as people make it out to be very frequently over here.

3 - What I constantly see here about Chiellini are comments about how dumb he is on the pitch and how he can't pass the ball or read the game. I know the reason for it, it's his agressiveness. Now, would you say the same about Vidal? Cannavaro? Davids? Thuram? etc, etc? I certainly wouldn't. Mind you, in our starting eleven (baring the keeper), he is probably one of our 3/4 best performers at understanding the game.

What do you mean by one of the best? TOP3? TOP5? Yeah, that can be debatable, but he sure is WC and a top CB.
 
Fred

Fred

Senior Member
#28,027
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
#28,027
Salvatore said:
No, he isn't at the moment. Reason being he's had a few form issues at the start of the season, and I still believe him to be playing in his second best position. But yes, I believe out of all the defenders we have, he is the one we can count on the most, and the one that is world class.

Whenever players go through a spell of poor form (for the high standards they've already set, particularly true with this player), there always appears to be one or two people waiting to kick them while they're down despite them proving to be top players against some of the best forwards in the world. It already happened with Buffon when people were wanting Storari instead, yet you have to go back to the cliché of "form is temporary, class is permanent" . Luckily someone took the time to dedicate a signature to the players which Chiellini has dominated in his career, otherwise there wouldn't have been as much accessible proof of it.

Last season was probably his most inconsistent, but in all other seasons he was undoubtedly great at the very least. The biggest concern of mine is how easily people forget the form Chiellini showed during the 09/10 season, when he was almost literally carrying the entire defense along with him. That was probably the one season that I thought he was arguably the best CB in the world (instead of being top 5), purely because of the way he was keeping Juventus alive in games. The experienced Cannavaro was often a passenger in the defense, while Giorgio had to compete with everything thrown at Juve. I clearly remember the Napoli game which we lost 3-1 at the San Paolo, when Chiellini was the only outfield player that delivered anything useful (close to being a flawless display from him) in a completely humiliating game. That sort of performance defined him, yet the form he showed at the time is often lost amongst the disaster that Juventus was and people group him in with the Diego/Felipe Melo/Grygera type players because of the collective form of that Juventus team.

Judging from posts all over the forum, some seem to think he's a mindless baboon that lunges into tackles recklessly because he doesn't know better, but he's often the defender that stays goal side of the attacker and doesn't step in needlessly (hey Bonucci). They also believe him to be mentally retarded with the ball at his feet because he cannot pick out a pass like Mexes or someone like that when he'd be perfectly fine at doing a similar job to Barzagli of playing the ball short to a midfielder or a fullback. If anything the left back role highlights his ineffectiveness in possession (despite that one very good assist he had this season).

As if any of this needed to be said anyway, shame that some have the memory of a sieve.
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:tup:
 
Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl

It ain't hard to tell
#28,028
Aug 22, 2007
65,571
#28,028
Salvatore said:
No, he isn't at the moment. Reason being he's had a few form issues at the start of the season, and I still believe him to be playing in his second best position. But yes, I believe out of all the defenders we have, he is the one we can count on the most, and the one that is world class.

Whenever players go through a spell of poor form (for the high standards they've already set, particularly true with this player), there always appears to be one or two people waiting to kick them while they're down despite them proving to be top players against some of the best forwards in the world. It already happened with Buffon when people were wanting Storari instead, yet you have to go back to the cliché of "form is temporary, class is permanent" . Luckily someone took the time to dedicate a signature to the players which Chiellini has dominated in his career, otherwise there wouldn't have been as much accessible proof of it.

Last season was probably his most inconsistent, but in all other seasons he was undoubtedly great at the very least. The biggest concern of mine is how easily people forget the form Chiellini showed during the 09/10 season, when he was almost literally carrying the entire defense along with him. That was probably the one season that I thought he was arguably the best CB in the world (instead of being top 5), purely because of the way he was keeping Juventus alive in games. The experienced Cannavaro was often a passenger in the defense, while Giorgio had to compete with everything thrown at Juve. I clearly remember the Napoli game which we lost 3-1 at the San Paolo, when Chiellini was the only outfield player that delivered anything useful (close to being a flawless display from him) in a completely humiliating game. That sort of performance defined him, yet the form he showed at the time is often lost amongst the disaster that Juventus was and people group him in with the Diego/Felipe Melo/Grygera type players because of the collective form of that Juventus team.

Judging from posts all over the forum, some seem to think he's a mindless baboon that lunges into tackles recklessly because he doesn't know better, but he's often the defender that stays goal side of the attacker and doesn't step in needlessly (hey Bonucci). They also believe him to be mentally retarded with the ball at his feet because he cannot pick out a pass like Mexes or someone like that when he'd be perfectly fine at doing a similar job to Barzagli of playing the ball short to a midfielder or a fullback. If anything the left back role highlights his ineffectiveness in possession (despite that one very good assist he had this season).

As if any of this needed to be said anyway, shame that some have the memory of a sieve.
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Quoted again so nobody misses it.
 
Gerd

Gerd

Senior Member
#28,033
Dec 25, 2011
5,955
#28,033
Flamez said:
1 - He was underperforming due to a couple of factors and maybe wasn't what folks expected him to be, but so what? He was still one of our best performers (and this isn't really a compliment to him). Not carrying the team we had on his back doesn't make him expendable nor average by any means.

2 - In your opinion* and I can very well accept that, even if I don't agree. Now, he wasn't much better than the "ghost" or the "retarded defender" (if at all), for example, as people make it out to be very frequently over here.

3 - What I constantly see here about Chiellini are comments about how dumb he is on the pitch and how he can't pass the ball or read the game. I know the reason for it, it's his agressiveness. Now, would you say the same about Vidal? Cannavaro? Davids? Thuram? etc, etc? I certainly wouldn't. Mind you, in our starting eleven (baring the keeper), he is probably one of our 3/4 best performers at understanding the game.

What do you mean by one of the best? TOP3? TOP5? Yeah, that can be debatable, but he sure is WC and a top CB.
Click to expand...

1 agree with this point marchisio's techinque couldn't be discuted it was always clear it was there but he always hidded from the ball didn't take responsibility and that is also thanks to the mentality of last years
2 melo is not a bad player actually he is got at what he does , but he is awful at what we expected him to do melo is not a playmaker he is not a source of game but we always saw him in front of the defense doing that and he is awful at that
plus he was greatly overpaid that is one of the reasons why fans expected much of him you don't pay players in that position as much as we paid him
3 vidal ? davids ? really ? first they are not defenders and being agresive and maybe not always getting the ball when you try to anticipate is not a very serious problem
that is another story in defense if you make a mistake here you let your opponents in front of the keeper
positioning is one of the most important things
and you mention cannavaro and thuram who were 2 of the best cb of the last decade
cannavaro at his golden time would pratically anticipate anybody and their positioning compared to chiellinis are another story too
 
GarfielD

GarfielD

Senior Member
#28,038
May 21, 2009
12,812
#28,038
Schalke have given up on attempts to extend Jefferson Farfan's stay at the Veltins-Arena, and allegedly will sell the winger in January if a sufficient bid is made for his services.

I smell a move by Marotta soon... :sergio:
 
Gerd

Gerd

Senior Member
#28,039
Dec 25, 2011
5,955
#28,039
GarfielD said:
Schalke have given up on attempts to extend Jefferson Farfan's stay at the Veltins-Arena, and allegedly will sell the winger in January if a sufficient bid is made for his services.

I smell a move by Marotta soon... :sergio:
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i doubt it we are overcrowded by wings unless we get a top in that position i don't think we will make any moves plus from what i heard he wants a very big salary so i would totally avoid him
 
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