Wikileaks (4 Viewers)

[Martin]

At the same time, most of us really don't want to know what goes on in the sausage factory to make sausage. And global politics is a frigging hogbutcher.

As a person involved in senior management at businesses for many years, complete transparency is not a virtue. To believe that is to be naive about how humans interact.

You wouldn't by chance be suggesting that a couple of Wikileaks dumps makes for "complete transparency", do you? I mean this has to be like a billionth of what actually goes on in government. A government that is operating ever more in secret, marking everything in sight as classified.

And business is not a democracy, is it? I thought it was sorta the point that the "demo" part knows what their leaders actually do.

 

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[Martin]

Some of his intentions are altruistic. But it's absolutely clear that he has intentions that are significantly selfish and motivated by making a name for himself.

I guess he figured that Mark Zuckerberg already created Facebook to improve his score with women, and so he's following suit with WikiLeaks instead.

This is a completely lame tactic. What difference does it make why they're doing it? They're trying to expose government wrong doing, but yet again why don't we stick our heads in the sand and focus on silly personal gossip why don't we.

 

[Dostoevsky]

At the same time, most of us really don't want to know what goes on in the sausage factory to make sausage. And global politics is a frigging hogbutcher.

As a person involved in senior management at businesses for many years, complete transparency is not a virtue. To believe that is to be naive about how humans interact.



Some of his intentions are altruistic. But it's absolutely clear that he has intentions that are significantly selfish and motivated by making a name for himself.

I guess he figured that Mark Zuckerberg already created Facebook to improve his score with women, and so he's following suit with WikiLeaks instead.

Well yeah, by doing this he's creating his brand which again involves Marketing and more money. He's in the situation to say "you don't want to pay, fine, I'll continue releasing articles". For that, he can probably get millions easily so it doesn't surprise me he's doing this slowly.

Then again, it's not a small deal and it can make huge mess eventually. I like reading that messy stuff and I gotta give it to him - he's doing a great work so far.

 

[swag]

You wouldn't by chance be suggesting that a couple of Wikileaks dumps makes for "complete transparency", do you? I mean this has to be like a billionth of what actually goes on in government. A government that is operating ever more in secret, marking everything in sight as classified.

And business is not a democracy, is it? I thought it was sorta the point that the "demo" part knows what their leaders actually do.

Let's put it this way. Israel and Palestine might be an impossibility for a future peace agreement by many accounts. But clearly things were mighty close when Arafat dropped the ball.

None of that would ever be possible in a fully transparent system.

 

[Martin]

Let's put it this way. Israel and Palestine might be an impossibility for a future peace agreement by many accounts. But clearly things were mighty close when Arafat dropped the ball.

None of that would ever be possible in a fully transparent system.

So because secrecy is necessary for some things that justifies ever increasing secrecy about everything?

 

[swag]

So because secrecy is necessary for some things that justifies ever increasing secrecy about everything?

That's not the same argument, though. Saying not everything should be transparent is not the same thing as saying everything should be secretive.

Saying transparency isn't always a good thing might rile some people up. But there's a parallel difference in lying. There's the "no, I did not embezzle that money" lying, and then there's the, "no, honey, I don't think those pants make your ass look fat" lying. Nothing good comes of the former, whereas the latter has its place.

Now whether Merkel's outfit of the day makes her ass look fat or not isn't the issue. But by not bringing up a recognition of the difference in the policies that you execute, you're proving yourself to be irresponsible with information.

 

[Martin]

That's not the same argument, though. Saying not everything should be transparent is not the same thing as saying everything should be secretive.

Saying transparency isn't always a good thing might rile some people up. But there's a parallel difference in lying. There's the "no, I did not embezzle that money" lying, and then there's the, "no, honey, I don't think those pants make your ass look fat" lying. Nothing good comes of the former, whereas the latter has its place.

Now whether Merkel's outfit of the day makes her ass look fat or not isn't the issue. But by not bringing up a recognition of the difference in the policies that you execute, you're proving yourself to be irresponsible with information.

You're argument is that a "fully transparent" system cannot work. Which as far as I can tell is a straw man, because I can't see that anyone has claimed everything should be fully transparent. Can you point me to a system which is dangerously close to being fully transparent?

Government secrecy is an incredibly convenient method to hide the unethical and the illegal, and governments by their very nature will always strive to keep you in the dark as much as possible. "Why do I have to be groped at the airport?" "Can't tell you." "Why not?" "National security." See how that works? When everything is secret, you don't have the right to protest anything.

Some amount of secrecy is necessary, just as it is necessary among moderators on the forum. But if moderators never had to justify anything and always said "that's classified", would that make a good forum?

 

[Enron]

To be honest, I don't feel what he revealed was material.

They're diplomatic cables not CIA documents. What do you think "diplomatic cable" means?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I hope the world burns, I love what this guy is doing. BOA DONE!

My aunt, with whom I work, thinks this guy is going to end up with a bullet in his head.

 

[The Curr]

My aunt, with whom I work, thinks this guy is going to end up with a bullet in his head.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I can really see it happening.

 

[Enron]

I think it would be dumb to do that. The whole world would know who was responsible. Which means it's quite likely to happen.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Who, the US, the dirty KSA, the ugly Israelis?

 

[Dostoevsky]

I hope the world burns, I love what this guy is doing. BOA DONE!

My aunt, with whom I work, thinks this guy is going to end up with a bullet in his head.

Nah, nothing will happen. This can only be his protection because if something happens to him then things will explode. Same with Immortal Technique.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Nah, nothing will happen. This can only be his protection because if something happens to him then things will explode. Same with Immortal Technique.

hehe, true.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I certainly hope so.

 

[Osman]

I think its silly to think he is doing this for money, or atleast main motivation, MUCH better ways to do this, he is basically saying kill me now with this stuff.

Plus I read old blogs and initiatives from him before this leak, and yeah dude is rather altruistic and an activist in the subject of the "truth". If you read recent interviews, he says it quite frankly this is for profile, to raise profile to what he is doing, get people on board (way more juicy informants stepping out the higher the profile), then he will focus on exposing the more serious stuff.

Though yeah dont expect CIA/Mossad documents, heh.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

CIA/Mossad shit would be awesome.

 

[Lion]

But why are they allowing this to continue? Can't they hack the guy's site or kill him or something?

if they kill him they will admit that he is too dangerous and are "scared "of him.

so what if they hack him?

for every good government hacker there are 3 hackers on anon/4chan willing to stir shit up for him.

 

[Enron]

Who, the US, the dirty KSA, the ugly Israelis?

Everyone would think the US is responsible, obviously.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Yeah, but then what? Who can be held accountable? He's dead meat.