Why are Serie A clubs doing well in Euorpe this year? (2 Viewers)

[Jun-hide]

Italian clubs have been doing well in this year's champions league competetion. Last year, only Juve and Roma, went into the winter break being in the competetion. This year however, both Milan clubs, Juventus and Roma, are still running for the competetion. Although, Roma has been doing poorly in the second stage, Juve, Inter and Milan and well positioned for the qualification. Roma, too, are not quite of running yet, unfortunately, :down:. If they manage to beat Valencia and get anything from away, then they have outside chance of qualifying.

What do you think has been the main cause?
Thuram said it was the change in mentality.
This is clear from the new attacking threat Italian clubs have forged in this year's championship. Juve put past 5 against Kiev and followed that with 4-0 thrashing of Basle. Milan demolished Depor in la Coruna, while Inter taught Newcastle some footballing lesson in St. James' Park. Arsenal's 3-1 win over Roma was flattering to say the least. Cygan, made unreal goal line clearance while Shaaban could have been sent off with his foul on Guigou.
Also, improved discipline helped the Italian teams. If I am right no Italian player except Canna has been sent off this year.
This is in stark contrast to previous years. Remember, two years ago we were knocked out of competetion not due to our football but indiscipline. 5sending offs in 6matches was just ridiculous.

 

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[Alessandro]

Not only atacking. Juve, Milan, Inter - all play different football, thay are searching something new if the game. Juve play fast and aggresive, Milan - atacking with a lot of passes, Inter - athletic. And only Roma is still tying to do something unknown on the pitch.
Always when Italians won, they did tht not because of superplayers thay have, but super teams that play unique football. Milan in the beggining of 90th, Juve in late 90th - thay play not as usual teams. I think this is the main reason. Italians realize that they HAVE TO MOVE ON, and they are doing that now.

 

[Stu]

Europe is destined to be ruled by Italy!!

 

[Anastacia]

the transfer market (calciomercato) has strengthened the milanese teams with quality players and gave them added squad depth. Both teams look much stronger than last season, and that's why they're doing well in europe. juve and roma didn't change much.

 

[Jun-hide]

++ [ originally posted by Anastacia ] ++
the transfer market (calciomercato) has strengthened the milanese teams with quality players and gave them added squad depth. Both teams look much stronger than last season, and that's why they're doing well in europe. juve and roma didn't change much.

I personally think the barren market this year actually helped Italian teams. In the last couple of years, both Milanistis, Roma, Parma, Lazio and us spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the transfer market. It was common for fans to see player such as Claudio, Farinos, Mendieta, Nedved, Thuram, Rui, brought in to strenghten their team. The resut was chaos and lack of teamwork. Not to mention, increased arrogance of Italian clubs in the Europe. This year however, has been dominated by the sensible transfer dealings. Players Gamarra, Rivaldo, came to Italy for free. While Nesta and Canna being dealt for the sum their previous clubs received was just unthinkable a year ago.
I think Real's current fortune is in tune with that of Italian clubs a year ago. Stars brought in, so did confusion, jealousy and arrogance. I would not be surprised if they did not qualify for the second stage like Serie A teams did a year ago.

 

[denco]

I think its down to one or 2 things , first of all the other teams in Europe have stepped up the plate and are no more in awe of Italian teams, so the defeatist attitude they used to bring to the field as in we cannot beat Milan or Juve or whoever is no more there as they now have a go at Italian teams and are more often than not successful

Secondly the Bosman rule was not particularly favourable to Italian teams as before Milan could buy 7 quality foreigners for the sole reason that they do not play for other clubs and be only to play 3 at a time while English teams in Europe were only able to field 3 non English as even scottis, welsh and Irish were regarded as foreigners, so their non English stars could not all play in Europe but post Bosman everyone can buy as many stars as they want and field as many as they want which made for a more level playing field

Thirdly and perhaps the most crucial imo is the fact that matches are now played weekly in Europe, no more fortnightly, and the Italian demise could be traced to when this format was brought into being, as the Spanish and English teams always appear fitter for some reason than Italian teams, who always seem to complain about not being able to cope with playing on saturday or sunday and tuesday or wednesday weekly , something that the English teams are used to since the advent on sky .

So most of the time it becomes like the wc2002 where the fittest teams not necessarily the best teams go further, of cos there are exceptions like Real Madrid but thats becos they have fantastic individuals and normally qualify with 2 or 3 games to spare so they use their reserves to finish the remaining matches and their stars do not get tired unlike most Italian teams who always seem to qualify with the last match of the group stages

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I think its down to one or 2 things , first of all the other teams in Europe have stepped up the plate and are no more in awe of Italian teams, so the defeatist attitude they used to bring to the field as in we cannot beat Milan or Juve or whoever is no more there as they now have a go at Italian teams and are more often than not successful

I don't think that this attitude has ever existed, especially not amongst the best of europe.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Secondly the Bosman rule was not particularly favourable to Italian teams as before Milan could buy 7 quality foreigners for the sole reason that they do not play for other clubs and be only to play 3 at a time while English teams in Europe were only able to field 3 non English as even scottis, welsh and Irish were regarded as foreigners, so their non English stars could not all play in Europe but post Bosman everyone can buy as many stars as they want and field as many as they want which made for a more level playing field

How can this be? The Italians were and still are the richest clubs in the world, I would think this would only work to their advantage.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Thirdly and perhaps the most crucial imo is the fact that matches are now played weekly in Europe, no more fortnightly, and the Italian demise could be traced to when this format was brought into being, as the Spanish and English teams always appear fitter for some reason than Italian teams, who always seem to complain about not being able to cope with playing on saturday or sunday and tuesday or wednesday weekly , something that the English teams are used to since the advent on sky .

If this is true, then the Italians will adapt and so it is only a matter of time until they rule europe again.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
So most of the time it becomes like the wc2002 where the fittest teams not necessarily the best teams go further, of cos there are exceptions like Real Madrid but thats becos they have fantastic individuals and normally qualify with 2 or 3 games to spare so they use their reserves to finish the remaining matches and their stars do not get tired unlike most Italian teams who always seem to qualify with the last match of the group stages

That's a good point, maybe we should try that...

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++


I don't think that this attitude has ever existed, especially not amongst the best of europe.

No, you do not think so, do you ever remember Arsenal confident enough in the past going to Rome and winning 3-1? But ever since the Italian teams recent hiccup, even Alaves goes to Inter and stuffs them, Celta put 4 past Juventus, or nantes coming to Lazio to win.In the past these teams would not have been bold enuff to look for a win, the best they looked for was either a draw or a small defeat, that was the psychological mood they brought to play

How can this be? The Italians were and still are the richest clubs in the world, I would think this would only work to their advantage.

I do not quite follow you here about the money but what I was trying to say that in the past teams like Arsenal, no matter how many foreign players they could afford ,would not be able to field more than 3 at a time, so in Europe they were not able to field their best teams while teams like Milan had world class Italians like Maldini, Baresi and Donadoni allied to van basten, Gullitt and Rikjard with Savicevic,Boban and Papin in the stands thereby not allowing other clubs to acquire these fantastic palyers but with the Bosnman ruling as long as you are from the Eu, then you can play for your club in Europe, this presented a more level playing field and made life not so cosy for Italian teams as at then ,they used to buy the very best from almost every super nation football wise in the world

If this is true, then the Italians will adapt and so it is only a matter of time until they rule europe again.

Maybe but if you watch Italian teams and especially the National side closely, you will notice that they seem to tire so easily against teams that play with pace and power and since Milan apart, they do not really have the personnel to control the pace of the game, they tend to struggle

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Maybe but if you watch Italian teams and especially the National side closely, you will notice that they seem to tire so easily against teams that play with pace and power and since Milan apart, they do not really have the personnel to control the pace of the game, they tend to struggle

I've got to concede all the points above, just because I haven't any real info to argue with. This point, however, I will argue. You said that the English could handle the increased frequency of play because they were used to it. Can the Italians not become used to it too?

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++


I've got to concede all the points above, just because I haven't any real info to argue with. This point, however, I will argue. You said that the English could handle the increased frequency of play because they were used to it. Can the Italians not become used to it too?

To be honest I am not sure, perhaps the English league is more power based, they seem to be able to be able to cope better and as for the spanish teams they have found a way to control the pace of the game to suit them not the opposition, something Italian teams have failed to do . An example is Juventus against newcastle, the second leg in Newcastle, we just could not match them for pace at all, I mean a midfield comprising jenas, Speed, Solano and Robert should not pose to many probs on paper but it did on the field and the likes of Tacchi could not handle it

Now another case in note is that one day we beat basle 4-0 and then lose to Brescia 2-0 and then lose to Lazio 2-1 and lose to Reggina 1-0 at home becos they are physically and mentally fatigued

Too many "pretty boys" might be the problem and like i said earlier only Milan can cope right now because you do not often give the likes of Sheva, Costa, seedorf, Pirlo, Inzaghi and Rivaldo the run around , they are too good for teams to dictate to them and i always say you need very good players in your side as they can dictate the tempo of the game

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++
I don't think that this attitude has ever existed, especially not amongst the best of europe.

Perhaps not among the best of Europe but here in Holland, the attitude has certainly changed from (though respectless) fearing of the Italians to a strong belief that the Dutch top three could beat any of them...

 

[BigIzz]

I think it is a natural progression, some of it involving luck. You can't stay on top for long and these things work in cycles.

 

[Slagathor]

But people get used to phases and when the balance of power shifts, there's always suprise and wondering...

 

[Ian]

I'm not sure that it is a cycle, but maybe a progression.

 

[Jun-hide]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


Perhaps not among the best of Europe but here in Holland, the attitude has certainly changed from (though respectless) fearing of the Italians to a strong belief that the Dutch top three could beat any of them...

Juve beat Feyenoord.
Would have beaten them twice had it not been for dodgy spaniard.
Inter recently doubled Ajax. Milan would probably beat any team in the world as long as they are not Empoli.
Ajax beat Roma but Roma is just Roma.

I think, Italian clubs are still capable of producing results even though as you have mentioned, Serie A clubs are nowhere near being invincible as they once were. I personally believe that less arrogant approach, has helped Serie A teams. I remeber watching Lazio-Valencia match, and had Lazio players were awake in the first leg like they were in the second, Lazio would have beaten the chess without any doubt.
I think this year Italians are giving more respect to the other Europeans teams such as Ajax, PSV, Dortmund, Newcastle, Feyenoord, Kiev, the teams couple of years ago they would have considered inferior and irrelevant. They got punished back then and it seems now the mistake has stopped. I mean, even Inter played very conservative 4-4-2against Newcastle.

 

[Jun-hide]

BTW,

I support Feyenoord in Hollan.

 

[denco]

Well lets be fair to Feyernoord as in the second leg , they had a lot of their first teamers out and it was just last season that Roda went to Milan and won, Was it not a team from Poland that put out Parma in the UEFA cup and how many Italian teams are remaining in that competition as early as it still is? About 3 to 4 years ago , Italian teams were probably 3 out of the 4 semi finalists. As for Inter beating Ajax home and away, the home tie, I cannot even remember the score, but the away tie in Amsterdam, Ajax had a perfectly legit goal ruled out, who knows what would have happened

 

[Jun-hide]

Denco,

As you have mentioned Serie A teams are nowhere being formidable as they once were.
Nevertheless, I think we can still produce results against anyteam. Inter certainly deserved to win 2-1 in the Amsterdam Arena, with fantastic second half performance. Gigi Di Biagio were unlucky with his 35yeard drive which hit the bar and then back of a goalkeeper. 2-1 victory in SanSiro were somewhat flattering though. Ajax at times played Inter off the park. .
Inter still managed to win, like all Hector Cuper team does. :fero:
As for Feyenoord, not having VH (I can't spell his name ), but key members like Anthony Lerling, Shinji, Song, Boshvelt played I think. So I doubt I would have made any difference to the scoreline. Although, they certainly would have beaten Newcastle had VH played.

Nonetheless, I think Dutch teams have every reason to believe they can beat Serie A giants. They have a good bunch of youngsters coming through, (just look at Ajax!), and I think the bad period is over for Holland.

 

[Ian]

Any team can beat any other team, it is a matter of actually doing it. Macaibi Tel Aviv could beat Juventus, but they won't, just like Ajax won't.

 

[Slagathor]

I wasn't talking so much about results as mere attitude. Italians are no longer feared in Holland nowadays