Who created Hell? (17 Viewers)

[Martin]

Based on the discussions we've had here, it's been said that nothing can come into existence all by itself. So neither can Hell. Now, we "know" that God is the almighty being who created us out of love and only wants what's best for us. So who is the sadistic son of a bitch who created Hell?

 

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[rounder]

God created hell, to punish us for our sins.

 

[Martin]

Quite the evil bastard, isn't he?

 

[Sadomin]

Man created Hell, to escape God's tyranny.

 

[rounder]

If you are a religious person, which you're not, you'll understand this a little better.

Ok, here's the deal. God gives us life, he gives us a mind, a body, and most importantly, he gives us free will. Now, we make the choice to believing him or not. Also, this depends on how much we know. If we're talking about someone in Africa that hasn't even heard of god, then he is one issue. But if we are talking about about anyone else that has been relatively well exposed to religion, god etc.. and yet denies him, and continues to live a sinful life; then he is another issue altogether.

We believe in a merciful, loving, and kind god. That's absolutely true, but we must also pay his kindness for giving us a great life by our faith and living a life of morallity, free from sins. When we don't do so, we will go to hell. The concept is quite simple really.

Now religion suggests that life is a test, if you pass, you go to heaven, if you fail, you go to hell.

In different context, think of god as being the law itself. If we disobey the law, we go to jail, don't we? The law is not being a sadistic bastard here, it's just being fair. If we live a moral life, if we prevent ourselves from lifes temptations, and prevent ourselves from sinning, then we will live with god in heaven for eternity. Simmilarly, if don't comply with the rules, we go to hell.

God is not evil, the law is not evil. Jail and Hell are not evil, they are simply the negative destinies we achieve after faiiling the test.

 

[Martin]

We believe in a merciful, loving, and kind god. That's absolutely true, but we must also pay his kindness for giving us a great life by our faith and living a life of morallity, free from sins. When we don't do so, we will go to hell. The concept is quite simple really.

If you have to pay for the service that someone is being kind and loving to you, then it's nothing more than a simple trade. It is not being kind and loving, it's prostitution. If I, a human, am kind and loving to another human, then I do not set conditions for this. I just choose to be. What you're saying is that god will do all these things for you as long as you pay him. Just like the mafia will protect you if you pay them, otherwise they will make you suffer.

In different context, think of god as being the law itself. If we disobey the law, we go to jail, don't we? The law is not being a sadistic bastard here, it's just being fair. If we live a moral life, if we prevent ourselves from lifes temptations, and prevent ourselves from sinning, then we will live with god in heaven for eternity. Simmilarly, if don't comply with the rules, we go to hell.

The law does not pretend to be kind and loving, it's only supposed to be fair. What's more, depending on the country you live in, the law does not torture you, it just puts you in jail. Meanwhile, religion says if you don't play by our rules you will burn in hell. BURN. A while back, we all gathered around a table and decided that torture is not something we accept, the Geneva constitution forbids it. And yet if you go to Hell you will quite clearly be tortured. What does that really mean? It means God is less moral than we humans are, because he tortures people and we don't. (Unless you have nice empire like the US.)

 

[rounder]

If you have to pay for the service that someone is being kind and loving to you, then it's nothing more than a simple trade. It is not being kind and loving, it's prostitution. If I, a human, am kind and loving to another human, then I do not set conditions for this. I just choose to be. What you're saying is that god will do all these things for you as long as you pay him. Just like the mafia will protect you if you pay them, otherwise they will make you suffer.



The law does not pretend to be kind and loving, it's only supposed to be fair. What's more, depending on the country you live in, the law does not torture you, it just puts you in jail. Meanwhile, religion says if you don't play by our rules you will burn in hell. BURN. A while back, we all gathered around a table and decided that torture is not something we accept, the Geneva constitution forbids it. And yet if you go to Hell you will quite clearly be tortured. What does that really mean? It means God is less moral than we humans are, because he tortures people and we don't. (Unless you have nice empire like the US.)

1st paragraph.

It's not a simple trade. Technically, we aren't giving him anything we aren't supposed to give him anyway. If a mother asks her son to listen to her after all the sleepless nights and hardships she had to endure because of him, does this mean she is proposing a trade? No, she is simply asking him to do what's required, she created him, showed him love and care, don't you think it's only fair that the obey obeys his mother?


2nd paragraph.

God is not being immoral, we are. Why would we be in hell in the first place? For immoral acts right? We were the ones who raped, killed, stole, lied etc.. We only got what we deserved. God isn't telling us " ok, live you're life, and when you are done, I will burn you in hell." He is giving us free will to decide for ourselves. He didn't make us into sheeps that will automatically obey him. We have the choice, it is in our hands, if we fail to comply, we face our destiny that we brought to ourselves because of our immoral lives.

 

[Azzurri7]

Based on the discussions we've had here, it's been said that nothing can come into existence all by itself. So neither can Hell. Now, we "know" that God is the almighty being who created us out of love and only wants what's best for us. So who is the sadistic son of a bitch who created Hell?

Bunch of smart religious people.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Martin, you're really something

 

[Red]

So who is the sadistic son of a bitch who created Hell?

Someone who realised that a stick, as well as a carrot, was needed to get people to behave the way they wanted them to...

 

[Martin]

1st paragraph.

It's not a simple trade. Technically, we aren't giving him anything we aren't supposed to give him anyway. If a mother asks her son to listen to her after all the sleepless nights and hardships she had to endure because of him, does this mean she is proposing a trade? No, she is simply asking him to do what's required, she created him, showed him love and care, don't you think it's only fair that the obey obeys his mother?

Let's get some facts on the table. Being kind means doing something without setting conditions for the person who is receiving this kindness. So god is not kind, that much is obvious. Worse, he tortures people.

A mother is kind regardless of what the child does. A mother does not send her child to be tortured no matter what happens. Your analogy doesn't work.

2nd paragraph.

God is not being immoral, we are. Why would we be in hell in the first place? For immoral acts right? We were the ones who raped, killed, stole, lied etc.. We only got what we deserved. God isn't telling us " ok, live you're life, and when you are done, I will burn you in hell." He is giving us free will to decide for ourselves. He didn't make us into sheeps that will automatically obey him. We have the choice, it is in our hands, if we fail to comply, we face our destiny that we brought to ourselves because of our immoral lives.

The Geneva convention says that you do not torture people NO MATTER WHAT THEY DID. God says otherwise. Therefore, God does not uphold human rights.

 

[Martin]

Martin, you're really something

Cold logic is as dangerous as the biggest butcher's knife :wink:

 

[HelterSkelter]

The government wants the best for us Martin.

Why did they create prisons?

 

[Enron]

Based on the discussions we've had here, it's been said that nothing can come into existence all by itself. So neither can Hell. Now, we "know" that God is the almighty being who created us out of love and only wants what's best for us. So who is the sadistic son of a bitch who created Hell?

The Clergy of course. Hell isn't even mentioned in the Bible or really any other theological text.

One of my theology professors at the Methodist college I attended for two years said that a theory was being passed around by scholars of the church that basically denied the existence of Hell. Their theory was that if you didn't get into heaven you merely ceased to exist. The theory was quickly squashed by the clergy of the church as I'm sure it messes up about 150 years of sermons.

 

[Martin]

The Clergy of course. Hell isn't even mentioned in the Bible or really any other theological text.

One of my theology professors at the Methodist college I attended for two years said that a theory was being passed around by scholars of the church that basically denied the existence of Hell. Their theory was that if you didn't get into heaven you merely ceased to exist. The theory was quickly squashed by the clergy of the church as I'm sure it messes up about 150 years of sermons.

When was this theory contemplated?

 

[Enron]

When was this theory contemplated?

2002-2004. My roommate at the time was in the theology program and is currently a minister. He brought it up at a conference and was almost kicked out.

I remember the shocked look on the faces of my classmates when our New Testament Professor brought this up.

 

[Enron]

The government wants the best for us Martin.

Why did they create prisons?

The government created prisons to protect those of us willing to live by the rules of society.

Hell on the other hand cannot really be compared to a prison. Once you are dead how much of a danger are you do the living?

And to argue that Hell was created to protect those willing to "live" by the rules of heaven doesn't make sense either. Once one is allowed into heaven, whatever version you like, the theory would be that he is protected by it's walls. As that is his reward.

 

[Martin]

2002-2004. My roommate at the time was in the theology program and is currently a minister. He brought it up at a conference and was almost kicked out.

I remember the shocked look on the faces of my classmates when our New Testament Professor brought this up.

Oh, right. I wasn't sure whether you were talking about a historical fact.

 

[Dinsdale]

Give it a break, Martin.

 

[rounder]

Let's get some facts on the table. Being kind means doing something without setting conditions for the person who is receiving this kindness. So god is not kind, that much is obvious. Worse, he tortures people.

A mother is kind regardless of what the child does. A mother does not send her child to be tortured no matter what happens. Your analogy doesn't work.


The Geneva convention says that you do not torture people NO MATTER WHAT THEY DID. God says otherwise. Therefore, God does not uphold human rights.

I don't know where you are living but mothers in Lebanon definitely torture their children. My neighbour, a little boy, is a very troublesome kid. He always curses and annoys his elders. His mother punishes him by making him place an extremely hot pepper in his mouth. This boy cries like there's no tommorow. I never saw him misbehave ever again.

Wouldn't you call this torture? But it's from a loving and caring mother that wants nothing but the best for her boy. What a sadistic bitch you would say. This boy grew up to have excellent morals, ethics, and amazing respect for others around him.

Does this analogy work then?


Hell doesn't exist

We will only cease to exist. That is our punishment, which isn't so immoral of you ask me.