Who are the Arabs? (15 Viewers)

[Hambon]

found it here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

 

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[Rami]

This is the full Paragraph from wikipedia:

A hadith of questionable authenticity[1], related by Ibn Asakir in Târîkh Dimashq and attributed by its narrator Salmân b. `Abd Allah to Islam's prophet Muhammad, expresses a common sentiment in declaring that:

"Being an Arab is not because of your father or mother, but being an Arab is on account of your tongue. Whoever learns Arabic is an Arab."

From Islamtoday:
This hadîth is related by Ibn`Asâkir in Târîkh Dimashq. It is a very weak hadîth. Ibn `Asâkir, al-Dhahabî and al-Nasâ’î declared its narrator, Salmân b. `Abd Allah to be extremely weak and unreliable.

 

[Majed]

Well said Rami.

 

[Hambon]

thanks for the clarification rami...good looking out

 

[JCK]

SO Rami ended the discussion now?

 

[Slagathor]

Your discussion, your call I guess

 

[Rami]

++ [ originally posted by hambon78 ] ++
thanks for the clarification rami...good looking out

It's just that lots of Hadeths are taken for granted these days, lots of false and weak ones are taken as correct...one should be on the look out

 

[JCK]

He was convincing actually

 

[Rami]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
SO Rami ended the discussion now?

Actually I was waiting for some kind of a rebuttal or approval from you, so as Erik said the ball in ur court

 

[JCK]

What you mentioned in your post was historic facts that I am aware of. We, at least my family, are said to be coming from "Ghassassina" and I heard from Lebanese historians that most Christians in the country are decendants of that tribe.

Can we say that all Christians in sout-east Asia are decendants of that tribe and be considered Arabs?

Then there are the Assyrians, I am sure they don't consider themselves Arabs, I have met many and I argued with many. Then there are the Copts, I haven't met Copts but I know how they feel. Then there are the Lebanese Christians, who hold a big majority that say no, we're not Arabs and a decent part of these are idiots who say they are Phoenicians.

I cannot say I agree with you or I disagree, I still am not convinced totally.

 

[Rami]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
What you mentioned in your post was historic facts that I am aware of. We, at least my family, are said to be coming from "Ghassassina" and I heard from Lebanese historians that most Christians in the country are decendants of that tribe.

Can we say that all Christians in sout-east Asia are decendants of that tribe and be considered Arabs?

Then there are the Assyrians, I am sure they don't consider themselves Arabs, I have met many and I argued with many. Then there are the Copts, I haven't met Copts but I know how they feel. Then there are the Lebanese Christians, who hold a big majority that say no, we're not Arabs and a decent part of these are idiots who say they are Phoenicians.

I cannot say I agree with you or I disagree, I still am not convinced totally.

As I mentioned earlier, Islam did not emphasise on the superority of the Arabic race, on the contrary it discouraged it. As a result, Islam during the first 1000 years after the prophet diluted Arabism. Egyptians for example, not only the Copts, are not Arabic, but they have been considered Arabic for the 1200 past years or so, so ya I would say they are Arabs. All I am saying is that the de-emphasis throughout the years blurred the line. So I would say that someone speaks Arabic, live the Arabic way, has a fair knowledge of the Arabic tradition, and believes that he is Arab or takes pride into it then he is. I don't think that there is an exclusive Arab gene right now that is distictive to us, as my cousins are blonde, Sudaneese and Somali's are black, there are the Arabs that trace their roots to Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Russia...etc. It is not a pure race as it is with for example with the Japaneese race or so. If someone doesn't believe he is Arab due to historical information or just because of the false notion that Arabs are Muslims then and he is not..."al-bab ifawit jamal"...or its up to him. It is not a privelage nor a shame!

 

[Snoop]

++ [ originally posted by hambon78 ] ++
As the Prophet Muhammed said: "Being an Arab is not because of your father or mother, but being an Arab is on account of your tongue. Whoever learns Arabic is an Arab."

that's crap,and I don't think he said that.
so if I learn dutch,I become a dutch? :undecide:

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++
that's crap,and I don't think he said that.
so if I learn dutch,I become a dutch? :undecide:

No; you become Dutch the minute the Dutch government grants you Dutch nationality. Contrary to other European nations such as Italy; we don't focus on bloodlines and where you're born etc.

 

[Snoop]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


No; you become Dutch the minute the Dutch government grants you Dutch nationality. Contrary to other European nations such as Italy; we don't focus on bloodlines and where you're born etc.

I don't agree with that,I am 100% armenian, I don't have Armenian passport,I'v never been in Armenia,I have no clue about Armenia
but still I am an Armenian,I have armenian name,and armenian is my mother language.

 

[Snoop]

there are a lot of people are like me,not Armenians only, many of Americans for example.

Jeeks:it is very complicated thing is that about "Arab",I think you are Lebanese maronite/christia

Is there anything like "Arab" description in the world?I think it is hard to explain ot to europeans or non-arabs

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++
I don't agree with that,I am 100% armenian, I don't have Armenian passport,I'v never been in Armenia,I have no clue about Armenia
but still I am an Armenian,I have armenian name,and armenian is my mother language.

That's just how our system works. It's a democratic belief that everybody has the right to our freedoms; therefor anybody can become Dutch.

 

[Snoop]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


That's just how our system works. It's a democratic belief that everybody has the right to our freedoms; therefor anybody can become Dutch.

I am not talking about passports exactly,that's probably everywhere in world not just netherland, you can have the "nationality" when you imigrate to a country

 

[GordoDeCentral]

this actually brings another very interesting point:
what does it mean when you say i am this or i am that?? Did you have a saying as to what you are/were? in other words why do we feel proud of something we couldnt control?

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++
I am not talking about passports exactly,that's probably everywhere in world not just netherland, you can have the "nationality" when you imigrate to a country

No, see, that's not true. In France and Holland, yes. But the Italian system, for example, focuses on bloodlines and it's much harder to gain nationality unless you can prove 1/10th of you is already Italian. These systems originate from said cultures; therefor you could argue the French and Dutch are more tolerant and open than the Italians.

Which leads to the question: Can you only become part of a group (in this case the Arabs) when said group agrees to you becoming a part?

 

[Snoop]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


No, see, that's not true. In France and Holland, yes. But the Italian system, for example, focuses on bloodlines and it's much harder to gain nationality unless you can prove 1/10th of you is already Italian. These systems originate from said cultures; therefor you could argue the French and Dutch are more tolerant and open than the Italians.

question,weren't there players in serie A that earned the nationality after playing for years?

Which leads to the question: Can you only become part of a group (in this case the Arabs) when said group agrees to you becoming a part?

trust me Erik,Arab is really another defintion,you can't compare it with other nationalitis,because Arab is not a nation anyway.