Who are the Arabs? (23 Viewers)

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
125,388
#1
Inspired from Altair's question and a small discussion about the Arabic language, I open this thread.

Who are the Arabs? Are those who speak the language or are they the ones from "Al Jazeera Alarabiya"? Does an Arab have to be Muslim to qualify as an Arab?

Discuss.
 

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Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#2
++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
Inspired from Altair's question and a small discussion about the Arabic language, I open this thread.

Who are the Arabs? Are those who speak the language or are they the ones from "Al Jazeera Alarabiya"? Does an Arab have to be Muslim to qualify as an Arab?

Discuss.
No don't be silly; Indonesia has the largest Muslim population of all doesn't it? They're not Arab. It has nothing to do with religion imo.

I have a map of the Arab world here somewhere... I mostly agree with that, lemme look it up...

EDIT: This is the map I was talking about - I used it for a report the other day:

http://www.morainevalley.edu/ctl/MiddleEast/images/Map_Arab World 1.jpg
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,837
#5
geographical spaces are not people, plus in any of these countries the ethnic diversity is sick so dont even attempt to put everyone under the arab umbrella. Jeeks touched on something that just cannot be answered without due evaluation.
 

Hambon

Lion of the Desert
Apr 22, 2005
8,073
#6
These are the Arabs my friend

Algeria

Bahrain

Comoros

Djibouti

Egypt

Iraq

Jordan

Kuwait

Lebanon

Libya

Mauritania

Morocco

Oman

Palestine

(Gaza Strip & West Bank)

Qatar

Saudi Arabia

Somalia

Sudan

Syria

Tunisia

United Arab Emirates

Yemen
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#7
++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
geographical spaces are not people, plus in any of these countries the ethnic diversity is sick so dont even attempt to put everyone under the arab umbrella. Jeeks touched on something that just cannot be answered without due evaluation.
Oh absolutely. I should've explained that I view the term "Arab" the same as I do "European"

There's not really any such thing but it's a word. A term used to describe people from a certain part of the world.
 
OP
JCK

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
125,388
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #8
    ++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


    No don't be silly; Indonesia has the largest Muslim population of all doesn't it? They're not Arab.

    I have a map of the Arab world here somewhere... I tend to agree with that, lemme look it up...
    Don't be silly yourslef and understand my question. What I meant is there are many born Christians in that map of yours who don't consider themselves Arabs, me being one of them along with almost half the population of Lebanon. Then you have the Coptics in Egypt who consider themselves Coptics but not Arabs.

    I know there are Muslims who are not Arabs but does an Arab have to be a Muslim to qualify as an Arab?
     

    Slagathor

    Bedpan racing champion
    Jul 25, 2001
    22,708
    #11
    ++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
    Don't be silly yourslef and understand my question. What I meant is there are many born Christians in that map of yours who don't consider themselves Arabs, me being one of them along with almost half the population of Lebanon. Then you have the Coptics in Egypt who consider themselves Coptics but not Arabs.

    I know there are Muslims who are not Arabs but does an Arab have to be a Muslim to qualify as an Arab?
    Oh well see I think I have a different interpretation to the word "Arab", see my post above.
     
    OP
    JCK

    JCK

    Biased
    JCK
    May 11, 2004
    125,388
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #13
    ++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
    Just remember: Iranians are not Arabs, they're Persians.
    We know that and they actually don't speak Arabic. So is this the first criteria?
     

    Hambon

    Lion of the Desert
    Apr 22, 2005
    8,073
    #15
    Who is an Arab?
    The definition of who an Arab is has three main aspects:


    Political: whether they live in a country which is a member of the Arab League (or, more vaguely, the Arab world); this definition covers more than 300 million people. Somalia and the Comoros are sometimes excepted from this definition. The aforementioned definition, however, is problematic and somewhat arbitrary, particularly as most national borders in the region were determined by post-colonial partitioning and do not necessarily reflect native cultural affiliations. For example, certain native populations in Eastern Chad are virtually indistinguishable from those in Western Sudan and many groups in Southern Turkey share the same culture and ethnicity, and indeed may have come from the same tribe or even family as people in Northern Syria. Sizable communities in Chad, Turkey, Israel, Tanzania, Eritrea, and Ethiopia, in addition to the Arab League, have spoken Arabic for generations, and many consider themselves Arab.
    Linguistic: whether their first language is Arabic; this definition covers more than 200 million people.
    Genealogical: whether they can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula.
    The relative importance of these factors is estimated differently by different groups. Most people who consider themselves Arabs do so on the basis of the overlap of the political and linguistic definitions. However, some members of groups which fulfill both criteria reject the identity on the basis of the genealogical definition; Lebanese Maronites, for example, may reject the Arab label in favor of a narrower Lebanese nationalism. Groups which use a non-Arabic liturgical language - such as Copts in Egypt and Assyrians in Iraq - are especially likely to be considered non-Arab. Not many people consider themselves Arab on the basis of the political definition without the linguistic one—thus, Kurds or Berbers do not usually identify themselves as Arab—but some do (for instance, some Berbers do consider themselves Arabs and Arab nationalists saw the Kurds as Arabs).

    A hadith of questionable authenticity[1], related by Ibn Asakir in Târîkh Dimashq and attributed by its narrator Salmân b. `Abd Allah to Islam's prophet Muhammad, expresses a common sentiment in declaring that:

    "Being an Arab is not because of your father or mother, but being an Arab is on account of your tongue. Whoever learns Arabic is an Arab."


    According to Habib Hassan Touma (1996, p.xviii), "An 'Arab', in the modern sense of the word, is one who is a national of an Arab state, has command of the Arabic language, and possesses a fundamental knowledge of Arabian tradition, that is, of the manners, customs, and political and social systems of the culture."

    On its formation in 1946, the Arab League defined an "Arab" as follows:

    "An Arab is a person whose language is Arabic, who lives in an Arabic speaking country, who is in sympathy with the aspirations of the Arabic speaking peoples."


    The genealogical definition was widely used in medieval times (Ibn Khaldun, for instance, does not use the word Arab to refer to "Arabized" peoples, but only to those of originally Arabian descent), but is usually no longer considered to be particularly significant.
    ."
     
    OP
    JCK

    JCK

    Biased
    JCK
    May 11, 2004
    125,388
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #16
    ++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


    I personally hold the Turks to be European given their language, culture and history.
    Give credit to Ataturk.
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,837
    #17
    ++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


    Oh well see I think I have a different interpretation to the word "Arab", see my post above.
    mmh nice attempt on the comparaison but it's a bit more complex. First of all, alot of arabs share a quite similar culture independent of their religion, which actually instills in them a sort of togetherness, ie panarabism. The language is just so rich that many non-arabs adopted as their own. Europe on the other hand feels that way because of economic/strategic.. reasons, the right reasons if you ask me :)
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,837
    #18
    ++ [ originally posted by hambon78 ] ++
    Who is an Arab?
    The definition of who an Arab is has three main aspects:


    Political: whether they live in a country which is a member of the Arab League (or, more vaguely, the Arab world); this definition covers more than 300 million people. Somalia and the Comoros are sometimes excepted from this definition. The aforementioned definition, however, is problematic and somewhat arbitrary, particularly as most national borders in the region were determined by post-colonial partitioning and do not necessarily reflect native cultural affiliations. For example, certain native populations in Eastern Chad are virtually indistinguishable from those in Western Sudan and many groups in Southern Turkey share the same culture and ethnicity, and indeed may have come from the same tribe or even family as people in Northern Syria. Sizable communities in Chad, Turkey, Israel, Tanzania, Eritrea, and Ethiopia, in addition to the Arab League, have spoken Arabic for generations, and many consider themselves Arab.
    Linguistic: whether their first language is Arabic; this definition covers more than 200 million people.
    Genealogical: whether they can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula.
    The relative importance of these factors is estimated differently by different groups. Most people who consider themselves Arabs do so on the basis of the overlap of the political and linguistic definitions. However, some members of groups which fulfill both criteria reject the identity on the basis of the genealogical definition; Lebanese Maronites, for example, may reject the Arab label in favor of a narrower Lebanese nationalism. Groups which use a non-Arabic liturgical language - such as Copts in Egypt and Assyrians in Iraq - are especially likely to be considered non-Arab. Not many people consider themselves Arab on the basis of the political definition without the linguistic one—thus, Kurds or Berbers do not usually identify themselves as Arab—but some do (for instance, some Berbers do consider themselves Arabs and Arab nationalists saw the Kurds as Arabs).

    A hadith of questionable authenticity[1], related by Ibn Asakir in Târîkh Dimashq and attributed by its narrator Salmân b. `Abd Allah to Islam's prophet Muhammad, expresses a common sentiment in declaring that:

    "Being an Arab is not because of your father or mother, but being an Arab is on account of your tongue. Whoever learns Arabic is an Arab."


    According to Habib Hassan Touma (1996, p.xviii), "An 'Arab', in the modern sense of the word, is one who is a national of an Arab state, has command of the Arabic language, and possesses a fundamental knowledge of Arabian tradition, that is, of the manners, customs, and political and social systems of the culture."

    On its formation in 1946, the Arab League defined an "Arab" as follows:

    "An Arab is a person whose language is Arabic, who lives in an Arabic speaking country, who is in sympathy with the aspirations of the Arabic speaking peoples."


    The genealogical definition was widely used in medieval times (Ibn Khaldun, for instance, does not use the word Arab to refer to "Arabized" peoples, but only to those of originally Arabian descent), but is usually no longer considered to be particularly significant.
    ."
    I suggest you tell that to my friends moshe(the jew) and amin(the kurd). And regardin the last paragraph, of course it's no longer significant it was gone with the ibn khaldouns of the arab world...
     

    Slagathor

    Bedpan racing champion
    Jul 25, 2001
    22,708
    #19
    ++ [ originally posted by Altair ] ++
    mmh nice attempt on the comparaison but it's a bit more complex. First of all, alot of arabs share a quite similar culture independent of their religion, which actually instills in them a sort of togetherness, ie panarabism. The language is just so rich that many non-arabs adopted as their own. Europe on the other hand feels that way because of economic/strategic.. reasons, the right reasons if you ask me :)
    Yes I agree with that. The grounds for that comparison are personal; ie. I focused on how both regions (continents perhaps) have such an intertwined history. When you look at Europe; there are so many 'unifying' factors in that the English language, for example, finds it roots in the same languag as Dutch etc. And there are more examples.

    It depends on what you focus on of course.
     
    OP
    JCK

    JCK

    Biased
    JCK
    May 11, 2004
    125,388
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #20
    ++ [ originally posted by hambon78 ] ++
    Who is an Arab?
    ... Lebanese Maronites, for example, may reject the Arab label in favor of a narrower Lebanese nationalism. Groups which use a non-Arabic liturgical language - such as Copts in Egypt and Assyrians in Iraq - are especially likely to be considered non-Arab. Not many people consider themselves Arab on the basis of the political definition without the linguistic one—thus, Kurds or Berbers do not usually identify themselves as Arab—but some do (for instance, some Berbers do consider themselves Arabs and Arab nationalists saw the Kurds as Arabs).
    ."


    That's basically the reason why I opened the thread. I woudl like to add to has been said there is that not only Maronites don't consider themselves Arabs but almost all the Christian society in Lebanon. Same thing goes to Christians in Syria, Jordan and most distinguishly Egypt. The thing is only in Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan they are called Lebanese, Palestinians or Jordanians as for other countries they are either Assyrians (in Iraq and Syria) or Copts in Egypt.
     

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