What's wrong with your country? (22 Viewers)

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#22
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
We have pretty much the opposite problem. Outside the cities at least, everybody knows everything about everybody. As an outsider, I was under the impression that this indifferent attitude on behalf of the Dutch had more to do with their "huisje, hondje, bompje" philosophy, which is quite laudable in itself IMO, rather than plain ignorance. I might be wrong of course, and it is true that despite the many cultures it contains, the Netherlands are not exactly a melting pot. More of a salad bowl in fact.
That's exactly right. The ignorance is a direct consequence of the huisje, hondje, boompje-phenomemon and causes stereotypes and prejudices to thrive.

Instead of the salad bowl theory, a new comparison has appeared in the past year (since the killing of Van Gogh and the events directly related to that afterwards): the so called Mix of chemicals. If you put different chemicals in a bowl; chances are that they won't respond well to each other and after sitting in the same space for a while, seemingly quiet and peaceful but brewing instead; they will burst out into flames or explode.

Correct me if I am wrong btw, but don't you guys allow the creation of Islamic madrasses on Dutch soil, which are essentially financed by the Saud family and on which the national gov't has little influence and scrutiny? I could be confusing you with Canada though.
That was true but has been reversed since, again, the killing of Van Gogh. Laws have been passed that allow the AIVD (our version of the CIA) to strongly monitor these madrasas' and even more measures have been taken. For instance, an extremist Imam preaching anti-western sermons can have his passport revoked in an instance and be deported to his native country immediately afterwards.
 
OP
Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,982
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #23
    And rightly so. I am having some diturbing mental images at the thought of the Dutch CIA though. Frank De Boeresque agents assessing the quality of the stuff and the likes..
     

    Slagathor

    Bedpan racing champion
    Jul 25, 2001
    22,708
    #24
    That's what the entire nation had as mental image but then last week a report leaked that the AIVD have successfully (without anyone knowing) stopped 31 potentially major terror attacks on Dutch soil since September 11th 2001.

    Not too bad is it?
     

    Nicole

    Senior Member
    Sep 16, 2004
    7,561
    #25
    Yeah, but can it actually be proven? Personally I think our security sevices in the UK have a really hard time, they get critism from all angles on pretty much everything and anything they do, yet I think its remarkable that it took never 5 years after 9/11 for us to have a terrorist attack here, I wonder how many times they've stopped a similar attack without anyone knowing.
     
    OP
    Kaiser Franco
    Dec 27, 2003
    1,982
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  • Thread Starter #26
    ++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
    That's what the entire nation had as mental image but then last week a report leaked that the AIVD have successfully (without anyone knowing) stopped 31 potentially major terror attacks on Dutch soil since September 11th 2001.

    Not too bad is it?
    Not bad at all, but you know ppl and stereotypes. Contrary to what one could believe, it seems our own secret services (Sisde, Sismi - can't remember which one is what now) are very competent too, both in Italy and abroad. They are also playing a key role in Iraq. That is when they don't get gunned down by a trigger-happy G.I. for not stopping at a checkpoint on a hostage rescue mission.
     

    Marion

    Junior Member
    Jul 3, 2005
    122
    #27
    Latvia..

    I love my country. It has beautiful countryside (it takes 90% of all country), football is in high level too (remember Euro04), hockey too if anybody is interested in it here, we have most beautiful girls in N-Europe.
    BUT we are so poor - the inflation, high gas prices it wouldn't be so bad if our country wouldn't have smallest wages in Europe :down:
     
    OP
    Kaiser Franco
    Dec 27, 2003
    1,982
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #31
    Well I could name a few good things about Indonesia.

    Biggest archipelago in the world. 13 000 or so inhabitated isles to still form a unified country.

    A rich and interesting culinary tradition.

    An incredibly varied population and some of the finest female specimens.

    My friend Afi. I need to pay that little pacha a visit in Bandung.
     

    Slagathor

    Bedpan racing champion
    Jul 25, 2001
    22,708
    #32
    ++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
    Not bad at all, but you know ppl and stereotypes. Contrary to what one could believe, it seems our own secret services (Sisde, Sismi - can't remember which one is what now) are very competent too, both in Italy and abroad. They are also playing a key role in Iraq. That is when they don't get gunned down by a trigger-happy G.I. for not stopping at a checkpoint on a hostage rescue mission.
    Nicely put
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    39,343
    #33
    ++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
    Italy

    - Let's first get the obvious reasons out of the way : the rigid labour market, crime (organised or not - Milan used to be a safe city once..), illegal immigration, drugs (apparently we have one of the highest rates of heroin addicts in Europe), the North/South divide, the ageing and shrinking population and of course the guy in charge at the moment.

    - The mummy boys. They're everywhere. People in their late 20's/early 30's who still live with their parents, get their clothes washed and ironed out, their food prepared and their bills paid. Granted, no one makes the risotto alle fragole like mother but ffs there comes a time when you need to get your act together and move out. Many have a steady job and could afford to live on their own, even in these times of raising cost of living. Others are just profesional students, playing on the fact that you can re-pass failed exams ad infinitum and thus taking 10 years for a degree that would normally need 4 or 5 (ironically, many of those study political sciences).

    - Campanilismo , literally bell-towerism. That's the tendency to be over-attached to your own roots to the point of disliking your neighbour. While this phenomenon is of course present elsewhere (a Bordelais or a Hamburger won't relate very well with, say, a Parisian or someone from Munich), it is all the more evident in Italy, for historical reasons. In some regions (Tuscany or Veneto), there is a fierce rivalry between certain cities or even between different areas of a same city.

    - The asphyxiating omnipresence of laws and regulations on the most insignificant things. No wonder people don't respect them : if you had to play by every rule of the book you'd need a blood test to be granted the right to breathe and an accreditation from the Interior ministry to take a dump (not practical if you really must take it coz you're likely to wait a long time). I wonder how many are observing the new legislation regarding the ban on smoking in public areas btw. Not that I don't agree with it, though.

    - Cellphone mania. Whoever invented cell phones must have had the Italian consumer in mind. Apparently we have the highest rate of cell phones pro capita with Japan. That's all well and good, but I doubt the usually reserved Japanese will shout so loud while using it as to give severe migraine to anyone standing at a distance less than 5 meters ("DOVE SEI?????" i.e. "Where are you??" Which generates an equally enthusiastic "MA VAFF..." on my behalf).

    - Dietrologia . Literally "behindology". The instinctive distrust for what is being told you, the systematic belief that everything must be part of a grander scheme that is being hidden to you. While this is a good attitude for keeping what's left of our political élite in check and highly entertaining when it comes to football conversations, it can also tend to become pathological and counterproductive.

    - Last but not least : esterofilia , or the Italians' love for everything foreign. Foreign music, foreign food (yes, even that, talk about blindness), foreign brands of everything , whatever. If it comes from abroad or at least has an exotic name, it has to be cool. And nevermind if the way they pronounce the thing would have them laughed at by a national of said foreign place. The most irritating example is the invasion of foreign TV hosts who receive standing ovations for muttering a few words in Italian (see Oliver Hardy's grandaughter who used to run her own show on national TV despite being as dumb as my left foot and virtually impossible to understand). More generally, it's the Italians' incapacity to realize how good they have it compared to most of the rest of the world that gets me upset.

    I know I'm going to sound superficial, but I'm going to say it anyway. What's up with those pasta-fatties? It is in fact a specific kind of fatness, which makes your lower back fat and gives you tremendous love handles. I think it is a serious problem in Italy: a lot of young people simply look horrendous. I'm not saying everyone should look great and do a lot of sports, but I'm under the impression that we in Belgium ,for an example, are much healthier.
     
    Jan 7, 2004
    29,704
    #34
    ++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++



    I know I'm going to sound superficial, but I'm going to say it anyway. What's up with those pasta-fatties? It is in fact a specific kind of fatness, which makes your lower back fat and gives you tremendous love handles. I think it is a serious problem in Italy: a lot of young people simply look horrendous. I'm not saying everyone should look great and do a lot of sports, but I'm under the impression that we in Belgium ,for an example, are much healthier.


    do yourself a favour and dont come to north america
     

    3pac

    Alex Del Mexico
    May 7, 2004
    7,206
    #35
    ++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++




    do yourself a favour and dont come to north america

    this italian kid came and stayed with me for a month, he would point and stare at every fat person he saw going "oh my god!".
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    39,343
    #37
    ++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++




    do yourself a favour and dont come to north america
    You're probably right. It amazes me how some people can mistreat their body like that. I don't want to sound patronising or anything, but you can't feel good when you're overweight.
     
    OP
    Kaiser Franco
    Dec 27, 2003
    1,982
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #38
    ++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++



    I know I'm going to sound superficial, but I'm going to say it anyway. What's up with those pasta-fatties? It is in fact a specific kind of fatness, which makes your lower back fat and gives you tremendous love handles. I think it is a serious problem in Italy: a lot of young people simply look horrendous. I'm not saying everyone should look great and do a lot of sports, but I'm under the impression that we in Belgium ,for an example, are much healthier.
    I think you must be alluding to older ppl, particularly women. To put it like Nick, a bit of "junk in the trunk" never hurt anyone but it is true that, unfortunately, they tend to develop a pear-like bottom when they're aging, and this may be somewhat related to our diet. But young ppl? I think a majority of young Italians are thin and well-proportioned, and comparatively we certainly aren't the fattest in Europe (I read somewhere that the title goes to Germany, followed by Britain). I have been quite positively surprised by Belgian cuisine btw, though as anybody you're not immune from this fast-growing fattening of the population phenomenon we're witnessing (I've put up weight myself since I live here, but that must have to do with other factors - stress and my passing of the quarter of a century threshold). Speaking of which, why don't you tell us what's wrong with Belgium?
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    39,343
    #40
    ++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


    I think you must be alluding to older ppl, particularly women. To put it like Nick, a bit of "junk in the trunk" never hurt anyone but it is true that, unfortunately, they tend to develop a pear-like bottom when they're aging, and this may be somewhat related to our diet. But young ppl? I think a majority of young Italians are thin and well-proportioned, and comparatively we certainly aren't the fattest in Europe (I read somewhere that the title goes to Germany, followed by Britain). I have been quite positively surprised by Belgian cuisine btw, though as anybody you're not immune from this fast-growing fattening of the population phenomenon we're witnessing (I've put up weight myself since I live here, but that must have to do with other factors - stress and my passing of the quarter of a century threshold). Speaking of which, why don't you tell us what's wrong with Belgium?

    There's our tendency to be a little too fond of little children :).

    What I hate most about Belgians is our false modesty. We're fully aware of what we're capable, but we'll always act as if we're no good.

    This goes with a lack of chauvinism as well.
     

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