What is your god like? (16 Viewers)

[rounder]

"Free will does not exist" is not exactly what I meant. I don't think I can explain it though, so I'll put it this way instead:

Even if suffering is necessary, why is there precisely this much suffering in the world and not more or less?

Because mankind has caused suferring through greed, jealousy, envy, hate etc..

I am not sure I completely understood your question.

but you fail to see that any one ordinary man's opinion on god is as good as anyone else's.

That's not true.

In any case, this is irrelevant. You're question was "who created God?", I responded to you through the video which shows that the question is not a viable one. And indeed, the very nature of God indicates that He cannot have a creator since He is supernatural. Only objects of nature are by default reqired to have a cause, God is not an object of nature thus a cause is not required.

 

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[Seven]

I think it was Socrates that once said, " Evil is the absence of good".

The two complement each other, and so do happiness and sadness, pleasure and pain. Without one, the other cannot possibly exist. It is surprising that you fail to see the rational behind this. If there was no sadness in the world, how could I experience happiness? Indeed, how could I even identify what happiness is?

I suggest you think for a moment about this one Martin.

That's so funny. Socrates said something very different and in fact, what he really said is helping Martin's argument rather than yours.

Evil is the result of ignorance according to Socrates. If you have the knowledge, you'll do good.

So Socrates, even though he did believe in one God, said the opposite of what you're claiming here. Tough luck.

 

[Martin]

Because mankind has caused suferring through greed, jealousy, envy, hate etc..

I am not sure I completely understood your question.

Is swine flu necessary for human happiness? Is Aids? Are earthquakes and tsunamis necessary? Are you telling me that without those things we couldn't possibly be happy?

 

[Raz]

In any case, this is irrelevant. You're question was "who created God?", I responded to you through the video which shows that the question is not a viable one. And indeed, the very nature of God indicates that He cannot have a creator since He is supernatural. Only objects of nature are by default reqired to have a cause, God is not an object of nature thus a cause is not required.

What is your evidence of this? Oh wait, you dont need evidence, you just need to say that god is supernatural and we who are natural cant understand it, therefor he exist.

 

[Seven]

We ate an apple and we're being punished all eternity for it.

That's how far our free will goes.

 

[rounder]

That's so funny. Socrates said something very different and in fact, what he really said is helping Martin's argument rather than yours.

Evil is the result of ignorance according to Socrates. If you have the knowledge, you'll do good.

So Socrates, even though he did believe in one God, said the opposite of what you're claiming here. Tough luck.

Being good is not about helping your friends, good is giving no harm to your enemies.

This is what Socrates basically said which is identical to " Evil is only the absence of good".

Is swine flu necessary for human happiness? Is Aids? Are earthquakes and tsunamis necessary? Are you telling me that without those things we couldn't possibly be happy?

No, I am saying without the suffering these things cause we could not be happy. If it wasn't a tsunami, it would be something else. another way to look at it is thisl without the natural disasters of the world, we could not appreciate the beauty of earth's nature.

 

[Raz]

Punishment isnt very rare in old testament, all you have to do is believe in other tribe god and be on the path of the mighty testament god and you will get punished really bad.

 

[Raz]

No, I am saying without the suffering these things cause we could not be happy. If it wasn't a tsunami, it would be something else. another way to look at it is thisl without the natural disasters of the world, we could not appreciate the beauty of earth's nature.

One couldnt be amazed with mountains without knowing that earthquake makes tsunami that kill thousands?:luckyluke:

 

[Martin]

No, I am saying without the suffering these things cause we could not be happy. If it wasn't a tsunami, it would be something else. another way to look at it is thisl without the natural disasters of the world, we could not appreciate the beauty of earth's nature.

So swine flu is necessary for happiness. What if there were two disease outbreaks instead of one? The first is necessary but the second is not?

 

[Raz]

So swine flu is necessary for happiness. What if there were two disease outbreaks instead of one? The first is necessary but the second is not?

The second maybe is the testament to his mighty power?

 

[rounder]

What is your evidence of this? Oh wait, you dont need evidence, you just need to say that god is supernatural and we who are natural cant understand it, therefor he exist.

Grab a dictionary and understand the meaning of 'supernatural', then come back.

 

[Bjerknes]

If it wasn't a tsunami, it would be something else. another way to look at it is thisl without the natural disasters of the world, we could not appreciate the beauty of earth's nature.

No offense but that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[Bjerknes]

We ate an apple and we're being punished all eternity for it.

That's how far our free will goes.

Exactly.

 

[Seven]

Grab a dictionary and understand the meaning of 'supernatural', then come back.

Says the man who didn't know what objective meant.

And he knows what supernatural means, but he thinks it's not adequate proof because it doesn't really say anything.

 

[rounder]

So swine flu is necessary for happiness. What if there were two disease outbreaks instead of one? The first is necessary but the second is not?

I'm not suggesting that there is a completely equivocal balance in nature between suffering and beauty. I am stating that they must co-exist in order for one to exist, why there may be more natural disasters than natural wonders in nature? I do not know and it is besides the point.

 

[Raz]

Grab a dictionary and understand the meaning of 'supernatural', then come back.

Thats the thing, your theory is based on imaginary thing "supernatural". Did you know that Poseidon, god of the sea is supernatural too? And yet you all involve this argument when there is no evidence of it only wishful thinking. But when atheist says something you ask 100% concrete evidence to back it up. double standarts?

 

[Martin]

I'm not suggesting that there is a completely equivocal balance in nature between suffering and beauty. I am stating that they must co-exist in order for one to exist, why there may be more natural disasters than natural wonders in nature? I do not know and it is besides the point.

Only if you don't care about suffering. Which mostly people do actually care about, their own for starters.

 

[rounder]

We ate an apple and we're being punished all eternity for it.

That's how far our free will goes.

That's a figurative story.

And he knows what supernatural means, but he thinks it's not adequate proof because it doesn't really say anything.

It does actually. You cannot ask what caused God since the causality principle only applies to what is natural. Again, if you fail to understand this then you fail to undertstand the nature of God.

 

[Bjerknes]

What it boils down to is that if there is a God, then he is one cruel bastard. Sending floods and tornadoes towards innocent villages, wielding his electrical stick trying to zap people randomly as He storms across the land in squall lines, and sending his murderous minions into schools to destroy the life that He created.

It's such a joke. Wish it could be funny.

 

[Martin]

That's a figurative story.



It does actually. You cannot ask what caused God since the causality principle only applies to what is natural. Again, if you fail to understand this then you fail to undertstand the nature of God.

I'm glad you said that. Because it means that God, who is not natural, cannot cause anything.