What is your god like? (18 Viewers)

[Dinsdale]

Thanks Interesting way of viewing it.

Basically it's an application of Bayesian probability. You might have heard about it in the context of medicals tests too.

 

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[king Ale]

I'm too lazy to formulate it myself, so I'm just going to quote this guy (David Sklansky) who wrote this on another forum:

What I am about to tell you is fact. If a person tells you something that seems hard to believe, there is a calculation you can perform if you previously held two opinions. This calculation is totally valid even if the subject matter is God. It works like this.

First come up with the probability in your mind that you would have given this piece of information before you were told anything. If the person told you they flipped ten fair coins and got ten heads it would be 1/1024. If they told you that their 51 year old sister was pregnant it might be 1/15,000. Those would be the chances BEFORE you heard the story. Now that you heard the story you ADJUST based on your opinion that the speaker would lie or be mistaken. Suppose you think that there is a 1/100 chance this person would lie or get things wrong. In other words you think this pers is 99% reliable. The problem is that if his contention outlandish he is still probably wrong. If he is asked about 15,001 different 51 year old females he will tell you the pregnant one is pregnant but he will say the same of 150 who are not.
His reliability allow you to significantly decrease your level of disbelief but not to the point where you can acrtually believe him.

Of course, religious people will assume their prophet is 100% reliable, but it might be an interesting concept for historicians.

Very interesting stuff Tom

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

The Bible was written in different languages to begin with.

Yea, but how many people read it in ANY of the original languages?

 

[Raz]

But in bible it doesn't say that one particular language is the best.

 

[*aca*]

But in bible it doesn't say that one particular language is the best.

tower of Babel and all that.

it's a god punishment for wanting to achieve too much

of course if you believe all that

 

[Seven]

Yea, but how many people read it in ANY of the original languages?

Almost none, but

a) The Bible doesn't say there's a divine language
b) it's not my problem anyway, because I'm not christian. If I would base my life on The Bible though, I would learn the necessary languages.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Okay, well said, punks...

 

[Raz]

tower of Babylon and all that.

it's a god punishment for wanting to achieve too much

People were working together in harmony to reach a common goal, i say its a fantastic achievement, and yet they were punished.

Yeah they tried to reach the god, but if we can't aim high, what do have to do then, to just water our crops, mow the lawn and that's it? A bit of a smack to the whole free will thing no?

 

[Seven]

Yes, yes, but the story is from the Old Testament. The Christian God is much more from the New One.

 

[Raz]

I'm being told that it is the same god(although i don't see the resemblance that clearly) so it should still count.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Because interpretation is key. And translators interpret. Come on, Ze, this is just insane.

Given the translational problems with the Christian bibles, I can see where Seven is coming from.

Seven, you could have make that point without calling anyone "fucking sad".

The Qur'an had to be revealed in one language or another, there simply is no getting away from that.

Of course the translations are someones interpretation of the text so it's up to you to look at various translations and decide which ones you feel are right. There are some known people that translate the Qur'an, and if you know that person to be knowledgeable in Arabic and Islam then you can opt to get a copy of his translation. Even if everyone knew Arabic, the interpretation still differs person to person.

Do you think all Arab speakers agree on everything regarding the Qur'an? No.

 

[Martin]

So with regards to my question, Tahir..

 

[Seven]

The Qur'an had to be revealed in one language or another, there simply is no getting away from that.

Of course the translations are someones interpretation of the text so it's up to you to look at various translations and decide which ones you feel are right. There are some known people that translate the Qur'an, and if you know that person to be knowledgeable in Arabic and Islam then you can opt to get a copy of his translation. Even if everyone knew Arabic, the interpretation still differs person to person.

Do you think all Arab speakers agree on everything regarding the Qur'an? No.

No, I don't. Which is why I suggest that, if you want to base your life on this book, you might want to learn Arabic.

 

[Zé Tahir]

So with regards to my question, Tahir..

The one from like 3 weeks ago?

No, I don't. Which is why I suggest that, if you want to base your life on this book, you might want to learn Arabic.

Yeah, that's not a bad suggestion.

 

[king Ale]

Not only a simple suggestion Tahir, you really need to learn Arabic (which is one of the most difficult languages to be picked up). You've missed a lot in the meanings if you've been reading Qoran's translations. Muslims insist on Qoran remaining unchanged since Mohammad so the only reliable translations are the word for word ones and you know that word for word translation do not deliver the whole meanings and intentions of a concept..

 

[Zé Tahir]

Not only a simple suggestion Tahir, you really need to learn Arabic (which is one of the most difficult languages to be picked up). You've missed a lot in the meanings if you've been reading Qoran's translations. Muslims insist on Qoran remaining unchanged since Mohammad so the only reliable translations are the word for word ones and you know that word for word translation do not deliver the whole meanings and intentions of a concept..

As far as I know there are no word-for-word translations of the Qur'an. It wouldn't make sense to do that. If I started translating Swedish or Urdu into English word-for-word it wouldn't make any sense.

Besides, the Qur'anic Arabic is called Classical Arabic iirc and the various dialects of Arabic spoken today are a lot different. I know Arabs from UAE that don't understand Moroccan Arabic for example.

I think it's also important here to note that one of the beauties of the Qur'an is that it lets the reader interpret it him/herself within some reasonable flex. I'm not talking about Wahabi's and Talibans here but the Muslims that are in grand majority and go unnoticed, people like myself, Fred, Osman, etc. I mean, what other religious text will tell you "La Ikraha Fiddin" - There is no compulsion in religion" and "Lakum Deenokum Walia Deen" - Your religion and belief is for you and my religion and belief is for me.

 

[HelterSkelter]

Man,you're more islamic than i thought you were

 

[Zé Tahir]

Man,you're more islamic than i thought you were

Yeah, what ever that means

 

[HelterSkelter]

It means ke tu har roz aik hee baat par behas kar kar ke tang nai aata.

Jabkay saaro ko pata hai ke yahan par kisi ne kisi ki baat nai maanii.

Loray

 

[Zé Tahir]

Haan, main dheet hun. Maza bohot ata hai in farangion ki gaand marnay mai.