What Are You Doing Right Now? (678 Viewers)

[IliveForJuve]

Honestly I don't know anything about Bolivia. I've never been there. Sure looks pretty though.

Besides the obvious third world issues, Bolivia has plenty of natural wonders.

For example El Salar de Uyuni (the world's largest salt flat):

Spoiler

 

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[Maddy]

Zach doesn't get that distinction.

Also, not all our money goes to supporting drunk, abusive and sex crazed parents who produce children in order to get child support. In fact I think most of our resources probably go to our healthcare system, which ranks among the best in the world. But that's Zach for you.

I'm aware, which is why I avoided his straw man.

 

[Seven]

Besides the obvious third world issues, Bolivia has plenty of natural wonders.

For example El Salar de Uyuni (the world's largest salt flat):

Spoiler

So pretty. Hopefully every Bolivian gets to see this before he dies of easily preventable diseases that kill no one in the industrialized world.

 

[ALC]

Besides the obvious third world issues, Bolivia has plenty of natural wonders.

For example El Salar de Uyuni (the world's largest salt flat):

Spoiler

Oh, so a dried sea. Cool.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

In Belgium, we are taxed to around 56% of our income. There is time unrestricted wellfare (only nation in the world who has) and very little "push" to force people back into working. The welfare is astoundingly close to the minimum wage. We have social housing thats rather easy to abuse, and a variety of support for all layers of the population. We are rather lax on "welfare migration". Unions hold rather massive power, and if shitty cant fart, we have 3 weeks of striking. It takes insane measures to fire a person, and everything is overly protected.
We have basically free health care, basically free but rather high standard educations. We got cash money per child you spawn, increasing per child.

And if you dare make money without a significant part comming from shiftbonusses, you get taxed into oblivion.

I'm this engineer peasant. My employer pays €4650/month for me, of which i merely get €1900 and a company car(VW polo on lease, cause that costs half as much as paying it in extra cash). My bonusses are taxed 70%.

A fucking peasant that lives alone gets close to €1000 euro, and social housing.


Please tell me in what country i'd get ripped off even more, to pay some workunwilling slut with 7 kids who sits at home with a drunk bastard father that doesnt work.

How is it possible that as an engineer you make so "little" before taxes? They make ridiculous amounts of money here. But you risk being stabbed on the train on the way to work by a crazed homeless man, so there are some tradeoffs

 

[X Æ A-12]

How is it possible that as an engineer you make so "little" before taxes?

Yea I was wondering the same

But I bet Zach makes money off of killing it in his weight training competitions :vinny:

 

[Zacheryah]

Agreed.





There are flaws within our system. Mostly, there are inexplicable differences between categories of people. As I am self employed much more of my wages goes to taxes and social contributions. I get that there can be a slight difference with employees, as I have deductibles, but the difference is astronomical.

Of everything you said I think the most important part is that if you're in the bottom half as far as your wages are concerned, you don't get that much more than if you were to rely solely on benefits. People don't work only for money, but obviously it is still the most important reason. No one is going to work an entire month if the difference is 100 Euros.

Oh self employed. Yeah thats indeed even worse. Imagine if you were to hire a person. The costs are idiotic

 

[Seven]

How is it possible that as an engineer you make so "little" before taxes? They make ridiculous amounts of money here. But you risk being stabbed on the train on the way to work by a crazed homeless man, so there are some tradeoffs

Society is completely different over here. At the end of the day there is more equality and wealth is more spread.

If you want to get rich here, become a doctor. If you want to get really rich, become a dentist.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk

 

[Zacheryah]

It's a difficult debate imo.

On the one hand you can't allow people to whither and die just because they don't work. And I don't just mean physical death. Welfare that is too low causes social isolation and really doesn't help people get out of the hole.

I think the problem in Belgium is that we have quite low wages for unskilled work.

A capitalist would say, its an incentive to do better then where you came from. It was for me.

i dropped out due to reasons (whomen), and had a job which earned marginally more then my parents, around 250 euro's more when working night shifts.

Returned to collegue, finished bachelors degree (but thats also shifts), and finished masters degree after quite significant financial consequences (depth) to now earn more then my parents combined at my age while not having to pay for my car, diesel or phone

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How is it possible that as an engineer you make so "little" before taxes? They make ridiculous amounts of money here. But you risk being stabbed on the train on the way to work by a crazed homeless man, so there are some tradeoffs

If i were to move to your country and get a job as a validation engineer in a pharma company, i start at 125,000/yr.

But this is Belgium

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As I said Belgium is a Welfare State based on a capitalistic system, not a Socialist State as you claimed.

Yeah, thats true.

But its the socialist party's strenght for decaces that created this "perfect" socialist situation. Companies and people who want to get ahead in life are taxed to ludicrious degree's so a retarded amount of lazy workunwilling slobs can sit home and drink their beer after beating their wife or trowing our their chronically pregnant daughter called sharon out again.

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Zach doesn't get that distinction.

Also, not all our money goes to supporting drunk, abusive and sex crazed parents who produce children in order to get child support. In fact I think most of our resources probably go to our healthcare system, which ranks among the best in the world. But that's Zach for you.

I get it but i refuse to call it anything else then a socialist fucking mess.

And seriously. Look up statistics. We got insane abuse of the social welfare and ill support welfare


In theory, its so nice.

In reality, it gets abused the shit out of it.



And our welcare is incredibly sluggish, big and unefficient. But thats the state for you. You are well aware tbh

 

[Fred]

Didn't Zach graduate just a couple of years ago? I don't think what he's making is that bad before taxes if that is the case. Thats around 60k$ annual for an engineer thats just been working for a couple of years, that isn't bad pay by any means.

 

[pitbull]

Didn't Zach graduate just a couple of years ago? I don't think what he's making is that bad before taxes if that is the case. Thats around 60k$ annual for an engineer thats just been working for a couple of years, that isn't bad pay by any means.

When Zach says that his employer pays 4.6k/month for him to get 1.9k that doesn't mean his gross salary is 4.6k though, the taxes that employer pays are never included in gross salary. I'm no Belgium tax expert, but I'd guess that his gross salary is probably somewhere between 3-3.5k, which is surprisingly low for a country like Belgium.

But I agree that's a heavy heavy tax burden for the people who're working, might be one of the highest in the world

 

[Fred]

When Zach says that his employer pays 4.6k/month for him to get 1.9k that doesn't mean his gross salary is 4.6k though, the taxes that employer pays are never included in gross salary. I'm no Belgium tax expert, but I'd guess that his gross salary is probably somewhere between 3-3.5k, which is surprisingly low for a country like Belgium.

Well that's different, I thought he was saying gross salary is 4.6k/month, which for someone whose only been working for a couple of years in his field is not that bad. 3-3.5k though is low, you're right.

 

[Seven]

When Zach says that his employer pays 4.6k/month for him to get 1.9k that doesn't mean his gross salary is 4.6k though, the taxes that employer pays are never included in gross salary. I'm no Belgium tax expert, but I'd guess that his gross salary is probably somewhere between 3-3.5k, which is surprisingly low for a country like Belgium.

But I agree that's a heavy heavy tax burden for the people who're working, might be one of the highest in the world

No. They are included in gross salary in Belgium. Well, depending on you look at it at least.

1.9K would be his net salary.

Btw, I think we are effectively no. 1 when it comes to income tax.

 

[Maddy]

Belgium have had primarily center - center/right governments in the last 40 years, yet Zach claims Belgium is a Socialist mess.

Belgium is a liberal democracy with an open market economy, yet Zach claims Belgium is a Socialist state.

Belgium have an overall healthy economy; high productivity, highly efficient, highly trained and educated population, yet Zach claims it's sluggish and unefficient [inefficient red.]. http://www.oecd.org/belgium/economic-survey-belgium.htm

 

[pitbull]

No. They are included in gross salary in Belgium. Well, depending on you look at it at least.

1.9K would be his net salary.

Btw, I think we are effectively no. 1 when it comes to income tax.

Really? So when I see that minimum wage in Belgium is 1,562.59 EUR per month gross, it means that both the employees taxes and the employers taxes get deducted from that? Poor people

That's strange, I always thought that gross wage is what the employer owes you for a period of time and from that you pay your taxes to the government.

 

[Seven]

Belgium have had primarily center - center/right governments in the last 40 years, yet Zach claims Belgium is a Socialist mess.

Belgium is a liberal democracy with an open market economy, yet Zach claims Belgium is a Socialist state.

Belgium have an overall healthy economy; high productivity, highly efficient, highly trained and educated population, yet Zach claims it's sluggish and unefficient [inefficient red.]. http://www.oecd.org/belgium/economic-survey-belgium.htm

We have an inefficient and sluggish bureaucracy. I assume that's what he meant.

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Really? So when I see that minimum wage in Belgium is 1,562.59 EUR per month gross, it means that both the employees taxes and the employers taxes get deducted from that? Poor people

That's strange, I always thought that gross wage is what the employer owes you for a period of time and from that you pay your taxes to the government.

Well, honestly I am not really that up to date, because I am self employed. I do know however that if I were to take home gross wages of 1,500 Euros a month, my taxes would be close to 0. I would still have to pay social contributions though. Take home pay would probably be around 1,100, though I think it is likely to be a lot higher if you're an employee.

 

[Maddy]

We have an inefficient and sluggish bureaucracy. I assume that's what he meant.

Bureaucracy will always be inefficient and sluggish compared to non at all. Without knowing the Belgian system (different between Flanders and Wallonie?), I suspect it might be closer to the French than the Nordic; I'd say a couple of reforms would probably do you well.

But in general Belgium is miles ahead of Greece, Italy, Spain. And only the most efficient countries in the World does better than Belgium in this regard. Belgium is 4th in the World in productivity (GDP per hour worked), if your bureaucracy was as bad as Zach claim, you wouldn't have that position.

But Zach's opinionated and endless babbling is suited to confirms his own narrative as the confused conservative/libertarian/populist he is.

 

[pitbull]

Btw, I think we are effectively no. 1 when it comes to income tax.

that's a bad thing to be first at in future when contemplating a move to Belgium I will take into account that you have crazy high taxes and that the salary offer likely includes the employers taxes as well

 

[ALC]

How is it possible that as an engineer you make so "little" before taxes? They make ridiculous amounts of money here. But you risk being stabbed on the train on the way to work by a crazed homeless man, so there are some tradeoffs

I’m an engineer in jersey and I’m making chump change. Entry level positions are really not that well paying.

 

[lgorTudor]

How is it possible that as an engineer you make so "little" before taxes? They make ridiculous amounts of money here. But you risk being stabbed on the train on the way to work by a crazed homeless man, so there are some tradeoffs

That's actally a lot before taxes by German standards (avg engineer entry level is easily 30-40% lower than that) but taxes are lower as well. Zach would have to only pay 27% of his gross salary and end up with 3300€ instead of 1900€