What Are You Doing Right Now? (978 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

At least it was a plan. Now we're just asking a people to cut back on expenses, while they already have and their economy is down and out. People are looking for food in garbage cans FFS. What do we want? Utter humiliation? Why?

And Tsipras already made incredible compromises, agreeing to cut on welfare benefits for the elderly and raising their health care costs, but the Troika just said no Like wtf are you even negotiating for, he's not just going to go full reverse on his entire election program.

Yet 90% of the media blames the absence of a deal almost entirely on Greece.

 

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[GordoDeCentral]

I don't think I've ever followed any news story with so many bad and misleading analogies than the Greek crisis.

wholeheartedly agree, especially the ones in defense of greece

 

[Seven]

wholeheartedly agree, especially the ones in defense of greece

Clearly you don't live in Europe. There hardly are any. It's only recently that people are starting to defend Greece. And while their public policy has been horrendous in the past, I think most of the EU countries now come across as spiteful and vindictive rather than rational.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Clearly you don't live in Europe. There hardly are any. It's only recently that people are starting to defend Greece. And while their public policy has been horrendous in the past, I think most of the EU countries now come across as spiteful and vindictive rather than rational.

i dont live in europe(thankfully), i was commenting on the analogies i keep hearing/reading, some nauseating stuff.

it is not vindictive imo it is about not setting a bad precedence imo countries like portugal and ireland might just be where greece is soon enough

 

[Seven]

i dont live in europe(thankfully), i was commenting on the analogies i keep hearing/reading, some nauseating stuff.

it is not vindictive imo it is about not setting a bad precedence imo countries like portugal and ireland might just be where greece is soon enough

The analogies are difficult, but it is true that many European countries have gone bankrupt several times and/or have recovered thanks to debt relief. We also know that focussing on saving money and cutting back expenses is not an adequate answer to an economic crisis anyway.

The reason you won't see this happen as fast in Spain or Ireland (Portugal might be at risk) is because we consider those countries part of the EU. Germany thinks of Greece as a banana republic that really has no business being in the EU in the first place, but is there just because of geographical reasons.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

The analogies are difficult, but it is true that many European countries have gone bankrupt several times and/or have recovered thanks to debt relief. We also know that focussing on saving money and cutting back expenses is not an adequate answer to an economic crisis anyway.

The reason you won't see this happen as fast in Spain or Ireland (Portugal might be at risk) is because we consider those countries part of the EU. Germany thinks of Greece as a banana republic that really has no business being in the EU in the first place, but is there just because of geographical reasons.

thats why they kept bailing them out i doubt thats the reason but imo that assessment is not too far off the truth

 

[Seven]

thats why they kept bailing them out i doubt thats the reason but imo that assessment is not too far off the truth

They kept bailing them out because they have money invested there and in case of bankruptcy will lose it. They want Greece to survive, but just barely. There is no dignity in that.

 

[Ocelot]

thats why they kept bailing them out i doubt thats the reason but imo that assessment is not too far off the truth

The biggest creditors to Greece used to be large European banks (as well as some international financial institutions). The bailout program was much more about saving them and as a result the whole financial market than it was about actually balancing the Greek budget or helping the Greek. Now virtually all of the debt is held by other countries, the IMF, or the ECB, all private institutions are off the hook.

The bailout program as a whole was primarily a program bailing out banks, most of the money went straight to them.

Recently some memos sent between key decision makers stemming from 2012 were released, there is no concern whatsoever for Greece, 90% of the discussion whether Grexit was a viable option was how "the markets" would react.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

The biggest creditors to Greece used to be large European banks (as well as some international financial institutions). The bailout program was much more about saving them and as a result the whole financial market than it was about actually balancing the Greek budget or helping the Greek. Now virtually all of the debt is held by other countries, the IMF, or the ECB, all private institutions are off the hook.

The bailout program as a whole was primarily a program bailing out banks, most of the money went straight to them.

Recently some memos sent between key decision makers stemming from 2012 were released, there is no concern whatsoever for Greece, 90% of the discussion whether Grexit was a viable option was how "the markets" would react.

when was there ever an altruistic concern in these things, the point i discussed with seven is whether germany believed in greece ability to be a viable eu member(obviously beneficial to them as well) and clearly they do, otherwise they would have cut their losses long ago

 

[Ocelot]

wholeheartedly agree, especially the ones in defense of greece

Geniunely curios here, what bad analogies defending Greece did you here? I mean don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of horribly arguments defending Greece, but can't really recall an analogy.

What I noticed more than anything in the coverage how incredibly misleading the general expressions, especially in the German language, used for describing the policies are. "Griechenland muss seine Hausaufgaben machen", "Staatssilber verkaufen"

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when was there ever an altruistic concern in these things, the point i discussed with seven is whether germany believed in greece ability to be a viable eu member(obviously beneficial to them as well) and clearly they do, otherwise they would have cut their losses long ago

Tough question to answer, in general many now believe that Greece shouldn't have been let into the Union in the first place (to be fair, they did so by cooking their books - although everyone knew and no one cared).

But the bailour program wasn't put in place because they believed in Greece, but largely to save the financial market.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Geniunely curios here, what bad analogies defending Greece did you here? I mean don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of horribly arguments defending Greece, but can't really recall an analogy.

What I noticed more than anything in the coverage how incredibly misleading the general expressions, especially in the German language, used for describing the policies are. "Griechenland muss seine Hausaufgaben machen", "Staatssilber verkaufen"

one about greece being a patron at a bar and germany the bartender, another comparing greece to a bad mortgage holder in 2008...

and i dont agree

 

[Ocelot]

one about greece being a patron at a bar and germany the bartender, another comparing greece to a bad mortgage holder in 2008...

and i dont agree

With the expressions being misleading?

 

[Seven]

With the expressions being misleading?

Rather oversimplifying and wrong.

 

[Red]

The bailout program as a whole was primarily a program bailing out banks, most of the money went straight to them.

Indeed and it's another example of the banks suffering very little for their part in financial crises.

For every reckless borrower there is a reckless lender, but in this sitaution there seems to be a determination that only the borrower should suffer.

 

[Seven]

Indeed and it's another example of the banks suffering very little for their part in financial crises.

For every reckless borrower there is a reckless lender, but in this sitaution there seems to be a determination that only the borrower should suffer.

That notion is deeply ingrained in our culture. I doubt you can change it just like that.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

With the expressions being misleading?

i have no idea why i typed that 'i dont agree' need a nap i think

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Indeed and it's another example of the banks suffering very little for their part in financial crises.

For every reckless borrower there is a reckless lender, but in this sitaution there seems to be a determination that only the borrower should suffer.

actually the ones who really suffer are the 'good' borrowers

 

[Red]

actually the ones who really suffer are the 'good' borrowers

Of course any number of innocent parties suffer in these situations, but I was keeping the narrow focus on the parties most directly involved.

 

[swag]

 

[Fred]

i dont live in europe(thankfully), i was commenting on the analogies i keep hearing/reading, some nauseating stuff.

it is not vindictive imo it is about not setting a bad precedence imo countries like portugal and ireland might just be where greece is soon enough

I love you man

 

[swag]

Filthy immos, amiright, Fred??