Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,668
this entire health reform issue is just plain annoying now. 70% of the population doesn't have the facts and are just spewing illegitimate concerns without any background knowledge
Well duh. But Americans don't need health insurance and uninsured citizens don't drive up hospital costs.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,381
There are some passionate opponents of this health care reform, one of which is Peter Schiff who believes the free market should sort out the problem. He brings about legitimate concerns. One of the parallels he brought to the table was that government providing loans to students for college actually drives up college costs and allows those institutions to charge insanely high tuitions. If there were no government loans, tuition would be far cheaper.

I think he brings about fair points.
 

Sadomin

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2005
7,327
There are some passionate opponents of this health care reform, one of which is Peter Schiff who believes the free market should sort out the problem. He brings about legitimate concerns. One of the parallels he brought to the table was that government providing loans to students for college actually drives up college costs and allows those institutions to charge insanely high tuitions. If there were no government loans, tuition would be far cheaper.

I think he brings about fair points.
Fair enough, but those high tuition fees might go to hiring better teachers and education. Someone's got to pay.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
There are some passionate opponents of this health care reform, one of which is Peter Schiff who believes the free market should sort out the problem. He brings about legitimate concerns. One of the parallels he brought to the table was that government providing loans to students for college actually drives up college costs and allows those institutions to charge insanely high tuitions. If there were no government loans, tuition would be far cheaper.

I think he brings about fair points.
I have an idea for you. Public universities. Welcome to Europe, muahahahaha
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,381
Fair enough, but those high tuition fees might go to hiring better teachers and education. Someone's got to pay.
Well, student loans are going to be the next big thing to fail and disrupt the capital markets. Universities continue increasing tuitions while students are having trouble finding loans and paying off existing loans because they cannot find jobs. So something has got to give.

At my school, tuition was around $10,000 a semester for in-state students. About 60,000 students at the school. That's $600,000,000 per semester in revenue, an insane amount of money that doesn't even take into account out-of-state students and housing and other costs.

It's absolutely true that costs have been driven up artificially, but now the market is trying to correct itself.

I'm all for students grabbing an education, but I think Schiff is right when he says government interference into some markets do drive up costs.
 

Sadomin

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2005
7,327
Well, student loans are going to be the next big thing to fail and disrupt the capital markets. Universities continue increasing tuitions while students are having trouble finding loans and paying off existing loans because they cannot find jobs. So something has got to give.

At my school, tuition was around $10,000 a semester for in-state students. About 60,000 students at the school. That's $600,000,000 per semester in revenue, an insane amount of money that doesn't even take into account out-of-state students and housing and other costs.

It's absolutely true that costs have been driven up artificially, but now the market is trying to correct itself.

I'm all for students grabbing an education, but I think Schiff is right when he says government interference into some markets do drive up costs.
Like Martin said: Public universities. Let the state pay the universities directly. The winner? Society as a whole and its members.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,804
Well duh. But Americans don't need health insurance and uninsured citizens don't drive up hospital costs.
:lol: Anyone looking at employment stats will see how f*ed up the health care situation is in this country. Every other industry has laid people off, but health care just keeps padding the payrolls like nothing's happened with the economy.

After all, with a third-party payer system, there's no incentive to optimize cost effectiveness. It's no wonder why healthcare has gotten so ridiculously expensive year-over-year and the cost of covering employees is putting companies out of business. (And why an aspirin in the ER costs $65...)

What I don't get are people who are worried about bloated government bureaucrats running their health insurance, when the insurance companies now are already bloated, redundant, and set up to fight patient claims.

There are some passionate opponents of this health care reform, one of which is Peter Schiff who believes the free market should sort out the problem. He brings about legitimate concerns. One of the parallels he brought to the table was that government providing loans to students for college actually drives up college costs and allows those institutions to charge insanely high tuitions. If there were no government loans, tuition would be far cheaper.

I think he brings about fair points.
Problem is that health care is not a free market problem. Any time I pay you for a service, and the price of that service, the approval of that service, and the payment for that service is handled is decided and handle by an third, independent party -- that's not a free market.

There are no incentives to reduce costs: people order 10 of the latest MRI machines in their county, but nobody is rewarded for funding and selecting the 10 MRIs that reduce costs by 80%. So we pay NASA toilet seat prices for our medical equipment: stuff engineered only a handful of times and made obsolete immediately after limited manufacturing production.

Until you or I can make a decision for one type of procedure or doctor or other and the cost savings comes back to us somehow, there's no free market.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,515
Back home from longest wake I'have been too (from 12.00 till til almost 20.00), more helping out organizing it then mourning it turned out to be (people from all over Sweden came, suprising).

Feel sorry for his kids, his daughter in particular, she gets married one day, and the day after her father dies (went from stable condition to life threatening overnight). Hadnt congratulated her for her wedding yet in person, meeting her today was rather odd, despite the sorrow, some were congratulating her, but I just couldnt do it.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,381
Problem is that health care is not a free market problem. Any time I pay you for a service, and the price of that service, the approval of that service, and the payment for that service is handled is decided and handle by an third, independent party -- that's not a free market.

There are no incentives to reduce costs: people order 10 of the latest MRI machines in their county, but nobody is rewarded for funding and selecting the 10 MRIs that reduce costs by 80%. So we pay NASA toilet seat prices for our medical equipment: stuff engineered only a handful of times and made obsolete immediately after limited manufacturing production.

Until you or I can make a decision for one type of procedure or doctor or other and the cost savings comes back to us somehow, there's no free market.
That is a major problem. So what do we do about it?
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,381
MSNBC is unfortunately turning into Fox News as well.

These news outlets keep getting worse and worse. I can't even bother to watch it anymore.


Sweet, severe thunderstorm watch just popped up for my area.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,804
MSNBC is unfortunately turning into Fox News as well.

These news outlets keep getting worse and worse. I can't even bother to watch it anymore.
I think we're witnessing the transformation of news from infotainment into a full-contact, competitive reality TV show/sport.

Give it two years, and the WWE will merge with MSNBC to form MSWWE.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 226)