GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,779
Haha yeah he actually said that like it's a bad thing.


Damn communists, holding a brother down by giving me 5 weeks paid vacation (plus extra days for holidays).

Skickat från min SM-G930F via Tapatalk
Being a slave to government? hell yeah it's a bad thing

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Pls. Our jokes always arrive on schedule.
Id take German anything over British any day
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
Being a slave to government? hell yeah it's a bad thing
You've got a very twisted idea about this, as do most Americans. As Europeans we are virtually free from worry. Sure, I have to pay more taxes than Americans. But I get healthcare of a quality that is vastly superior to anything I could ever afford in the States (I am insured for pretty much everything), if I lose my job or am otherwise unable to work I will get benefits and still don't have to worry, my education has been pretty much free compared to the States and most importantly: my standard of living is so high that there is not a single place in the world I cannot go to because of financial issues. So even if I have to pay more taxes, I still have plenty.

You get a healthcare system where people aren't even guaranteed that their insurers will actually pay up when they need to. I mean, fuck, you're a slave to fear all day every day. And you look at us and pity us? Fuck dude.

Not to mention just how fucking dangerous some places in the States are. And not just because of crime (we get A LOT of drug crime in Belgium), but because of sheer lunacy too. But that's another thing of your retarded healthcare system. You have thousands of insane people roaming the streets. You get people who are crippled both mentally and physically and cannot afford care and are forced to live on the streets. Shit, first thing everyone from Belgium notices when they go to the States is, why the fuck are there so many disabled people here?
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,779
You've got a very twisted idea about this, as do most Americans. As Europeans we are virtually free from worry. Sure, I have to pay more taxes than Americans. But I get healthcare of a quality that is vastly superior to anything I could ever afford in the States (I am insured for pretty much everything), if I lose my job or am otherwise unable to work I will get benefits and still don't have to worry, my education has been pretty much free compared to the States and most importantly: my standard of living is so high that there is not a single place in the world I cannot go to because of financial issues. So even if I have to pay more taxes, I still have plenty.

You get a healthcare system where people aren't even guaranteed that their insurers will actually pay up when they need to. I mean, fuck, you're a slave to fear all day every day. And you look at us and pity us? Fuck dude.

Not to mention just how fucking dangerous some places in the States are. And not just because of crime (we get A LOT of drug crime in Belgium), but because of sheer lunacy too. But that's another thing of your retarded healthcare system. You have thousands of insane people roaming the streets. You get people who are crippled both mentally and physically and cannot afford care and are forced to live on the streets. Shit, first thing everyone from Belgium notices when they go to the States is, why the fuck are there so many disabled people here?
I have one question for you, are you a business owner?
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
I have one question for you, are you a business owner?
Technically yes. In Belgium lawyers are not allowed to be employees (this would mean they would not be able to refuse cases and by law they should be able to). And I understand what you're getting at. There are quite a few regulations for business owners in Belgium and there is a significant tax burden. But there are several things to keep in mind:
- you get an awful lot in return for those taxes
- as a Belgian, you are free to go pretty much wherever you want in the world. Immigration is easy as a western European.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,980
Technically yes. In Belgium lawyers are not allowed to be employees (this would mean they would not be able to refuse cases and by law they should be able to). And I understand what you're getting at. There are quite a few regulations for business owners in Belgium and there is a significant tax burden. But there are several things to keep in mind:
- you get an awful lot in return for those taxes
- as a Belgian, you are free to go pretty much wherever you want in the world. Immigration is easy as a western European.
Taxes here are really high and they eat a whole lot of profit, but we get nothing in return. :D
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
Taxes here are really high and they eat a whole lot of profit, but we get nothing in return. :D
:D

I think we have the highest income tax in the world though, so even higher than Serbia.

But most importantly, and Americans keep underestimating this, we are free from worrying about a lot of things. And like I said, we can pretty much go wherever we want to if we don't like Belgium anymore.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
Where's your travel/Hawaii report? :D
Lol.

My Hawaii report is easy. You should visit. And you should visit several islands. It's difficult to describe, man. There are so many different sights to look at, and it's nothing like European or even American landscapes. But what I liked best was possibly the air. I don't know if the air quality really is better over there (although it would make an awful lot of sense), but it just seems as if there's so much more oxygen there.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,980
Lol.

My Hawaii report is easy. You should visit. And you should visit several islands. It's difficult to describe, man. There are so many different sights to look at, and it's nothing like European or even American landscapes. But what I liked best was possibly the air. I don't know if the air quality really is better over there (although it would make an awful lot of sense), but it just seems as if there's so much more oxygen there.
I realized as much just by looking at the photos. :D We'll see about my travel over there because right now I struggle to visit Hungary for 1 day LOL. Yeah, that's not even funny. But it gets a smile going.

How are the people?
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
I realized as much just by looking at the photos. :D We'll see about my travel over there because right now I struggle to visit Hungary for 1 day LOL. Yeah, that's not even funny. But it gets a smile going.

How are the people?

It depends. As is usually the case with Americans, most are very friendly. But I did get the sensation that native Hawaiians (and by that I mean the indigenous Polynesian people) have substantially higher poverty rates and as a whole are less educated than other parts of the population. I don't mean to insult them at all, but that's kind of the feeling you get when you see most fastfood joints and gas stations operated by them and they are barely able to help you with the simplest of issues.

Also, another thing to consider is that there are tourists everywhere. Because it's so far from every other place on Earth, the islands don't feel crowded at all, but it's still the state where people go on holiday.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,779
Technically yes. In Belgium lawyers are not allowed to be employees (this would mean they would not be able to refuse cases and by law they should be able to). And I understand what you're getting at. There are quite a few regulations for business owners in Belgium and there is a significant tax burden. But there are several things to keep in mind:
- you get an awful lot in return for those taxes
- as a Belgian, you are free to go pretty much wherever you want in the world. Immigration is easy as a western European.
Business owners are the drivers of a country's economy, their sense of enterprise and resource investment is what keeps the lights on. Government is so to speak the administrative dept since these business owners are too busy actually creating jobs, products, services, and ultimately prosperity. The government is by definition a drain, but a necessary one in so far as insuring public safety, a judiciary system, and a safety net for protected classes(disabled, parentless minors, and elderly). Anything beyond that is both a harmful and abusive encroachment on your liberties, whether that is something pleasing to you or not.

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:D

I think we have the highest income tax in the world though, so even higher than Serbia.

But most importantly, and Americans keep underestimating this, we are free from worrying about a lot of things. And like I said, we can pretty much go wherever we want to if we don't like Belgium anymore.
Funny since people volunteered to be serfs in the middle ages, it doesn't make it any less degrading
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
Business owners are the drivers of a country's economy, their sense of enterprise and resource investment is what keeps the lights on. Government is so to speak the administrative dept since these business owners are too busy actually creating jobs, products, services, and ultimately prosperity. The government is by definition a drain, but a necessary one in so far as insuring public safety, a judiciary system, and a safety net for protected classes(disabled, parentless minors, and elderly). Anything beyond that is both a harmful and abusive encroachment on your liberties, whether that is something pleasing to you or not.

The funny bit is that we agree. It's just that we have different ideas of just how much government and taxes we need to be able to provide those necessities.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Western Europe, but if you haven't been, you're probably in for a bit of a shocker the first time you visit.

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Funny since people volunteered to be serfs in the middle ages, it doesn't make it any less degrading
You do realise that it's governments who have since banned this system and no longer allow people to volunteer to be serfs? In a world without governments and pure capitalism, this would still happen today. And you're right, it is degrading.

But paying a vastly lower fee (barely paying a fee really) for my much superior healthcare is not exactly what I would call degrading.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,779
The funny bit is that we agree. It's just that we have different ideas of just how much government and taxes we need to be able to provide those necessities.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Western Europe, but if you haven't been, you're probably in for a bit of a shocker the first time you visit.

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You do realise that it's governments who have since banned this system and no longer allow people to volunteer to be serfs? In a world without governments and pure capitalism, this would still happen today. And you're right, it is degrading.

But paying a vastly lower fee (barely paying a fee really) for my much superior healthcare is not exactly what I would call degrading.
The degrading part is having a dysfunctional entity which produces nothing, tell a business how to operate.

Serfdom was actually phased out by the plague, and I have lived in Europe and still visit(only if I have to though :p)
My man your country is the size of the suburbs of Chicago, and health care there ain't too shabby.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
The degrading part is having a dysfunctional entity which produces nothing, tell a business how to operate.

Serfdom was actually phased out by the plague, and I have lived in Europe and still visit(only if I have to though :p)
My man your country is the size of the suburbs of Chicago, and health care there ain't too shabby.

Sure, and there are many things about European (and Belgian) government that make little sense. But overall I'd say we get a hell of a lot more from our government than you do of yours.

All of Western Europe is a bit bigger than Chicago though. And apart from the Netherlands and the UK, most Western European countries have similar standards of healthcare. And most importantly, government healthcare is actually something that is guaranteed. But, I guess we really ought to expand the issue, because I'm sure even you can see why private healthcare insurance just doesn't work.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,779
Sure, and there are many things about European (and Belgian) government that make little sense. But overall I'd say we get a hell of a lot more from our government than you do of yours.

All of Western Europe is a bit bigger than Chicago though. And apart from the Netherlands and the UK, most Western European countries have similar standards of healthcare. And most importantly, government healthcare is actually something that is guaranteed. But, I guess we really ought to expand the issue, because I'm sure even you can see why private healthcare insurance just doesn't work.
Healthcare is a complex issue with many layers, in my very humble and uneducated opinion id say the biggest problems are doctors and drug conpanies. We should let more people practice medicine(nurses for example) and drug companies should have only a 2 year patent on meds.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,316
Healthcare is a complex issue with many layers, in my very humble and uneducated opinion id say the biggest problems are doctors and drug conpanies. We should let more people practice medicine(nurses for example) and drug companies should have only a 2 year patent on meds.
Oh drug companies are a problem for sure. But I think / hope patent laws might change very fast. These days you've got a lot of biotech companies and many of them are working with DNA or meds that basically use your own immune system. This means that on the hand a lot of meds will be cheaper to produce (eliminating the need for intellectual property) and on the other it will be hard to get a patent for something that is basically human cell material anyway.

The biggest problem I see is the insurance companies. We do a lot of insurance law here and I just don't understand how anyone with any knowledge of subject might believe private healthcare can work. Insurance companies can always choose not to insure. So why would they ever insure a 60 year old cancer survivor? The risk is way too big. So you get people who aren't able to get insurance. And then are the people who did get insurance, but are now finding it difficult to get the insurance company to pay up. Let's say you get a life threatening disease and you need a 200k treatment, but the insurance company refuses to pay. Even if you'd be able to win your legal battle (not all people can afford this either), you might be dead by the time that you do.

The only thing that works is single payer healthcare. If a politician, who has supposedly studied the subject, tells you otherwise, he's lying.
 

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