What Are You Doing Right Now? (259 Viewers)

[Fred]

"reply with quote" isn't working for me today

Fred, he used to be a Marxist and whilst he discussed the flaws of what went on you can tell that he was holding back support for the ideoligies.

I believe in a united world, but not under opressions and murder and I don't think it is something that can be forced, it will happen eventually through globalisation and technological innovation - Star Trek proves that

I personally don't believe that Lenin was actually a marxist in the strict sense of the word, like i don't think Stalin was a marxist, nor Saddam Hussain a baathist or Hafez and Bashar after him. They all use ideologies that sound great in theory and most importantly work on people's emotions: appeal to the majority working class and how little rights they had back in the first half of the 20th century in the marxists case, and appeal to the arab's by using arab nationalist rhetoric at a time when the arabs were coming out of foreign occupation and Palestine was conspired on. I don't believe any of them actually believe in their own adopted ideologies, its just a tool for attaining their political objectives imo.

I dig Lenin

Fuck Lenin, aside from being a murdering, cold blooded dictator. He was a huge hypocrite as well.

 

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[GordoDeCentral]

Knew what?

you got yourself a lady friend

 

[Red]

you got yourself a lady friend

That's news to me.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I personally don't believe that Lenin was actually a marxist in the strict sense of the word, like i don't think Stalin was a marxist, nor Saddam Hussain a baathist or Hafez and Bashar after him. They all use ideologies that sound great in theory and most importantly work on people's emotions: appeal to the majority working class and how little rights they had back in the first half of the 20th century in the marxists case, and appeal to the arab's by using arab nationalist rhetoric at a time when the arabs were coming out of foreign occupation and Palestine was conspired on. I don't believe any of them actually believe in their own adopted ideologies, its just a tool for attaining their political objectives imo.
Fuck Lenin, aside from being a murdering, cold blooded dictator. He was a huge hypocrite as well.

except stalin made the USSR into a world power in less than 20 years, at the cost of millions of lives, yes, but nonetheless he made them a world power.

That's news to me.

you thought it was a guy?

 

[Fred]

except stalin made the USSR into a world power in less than 20 years, at the cost of millions of lives, yes, but nonetheless he made them a world power.



you thought it was a guy?

How does that contradict what i said?

I still think he didn't really believe in Marxist ideology, he just used it to attain his political objectives. Whether or not he was successful in transforming the USSR into a world power is irrelevant to my point.

 

[Ford Prefect]

except stalin made the USSR into a world power in less than 20 years, at the cost of millions of lives, yes, but nonetheless he made them a world power.

As always, its not that simple. He had the right social/econimic/foreign and domestic sitution to allow for it to happen. The US and the USSR were the only two powers that hadn't been crippled by the war, to give him the credit for a situation he found himself in is a bit unfair, of course a lot of what happened was down to him, but with most of the soviet leaders it would have happened anyway, especially Khruschev, who I rate more than Stalin.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

How does that contradict what i said?

I still think he didn't really believe in Marxist ideology, he just used it to attain his political objectives. Whether or not he was successful in transforming the USSR into a world power is irrelevant.

marxist ideology? Ideology stops being relevant when confronted with reality, reality speaks(not postulates) stalin's results. Hes bigger than marx and his theories could ever be.

 

[.zero]

Back from a three hour lecture on the october revolution - Lenin was a fucking arsehole...my lecturer is a bolshevik sympathiser, the fool.

Thats BULLSHivek!

 

[GordoDeCentral]

As always, its not that simple. He had the right social/econimic/foreign and domestic sitution to allow for it to happen. The US and the USSR were the only two powers that hadn't been crippled by the war, to give him the credit for a situation he found himself in is a bit unfair, of course a lot of what happened was down to him, but with most of the soviet leaders it would have happened anyway, especially Khruschev, who I rate more than Stalin.

you need to lay down whatever you;re smoking, that statement is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Ford Prefect]

you need to lay down whatever you;re smoking, that statement is beyond ridiculous.

As is any hypothetical argument. I hate any argument that will decide that one thing is the reason/cause/solution etc. Because nothing is ever that simple, my point still stands - I do not rate Stalin as the all powerful leader that you seem to believe he is, but I also hold the same opinion of the majority of the world leaders of the past century/150 years....especially Hitler.

 

[Fred]

marxist ideology? Ideology stops being relevant when confronted with reality,

reality speaks(not postulates) stalin's results. Hes bigger than marx and his theories could ever be.

Agree with the first part definitely.

As for Stalin being bigger than Marx, maybe, but if it weren't for him riding on the wave of marxism he might have never reached the presidency of the USSR in the first place. My original point was, however, that i find ideology to be useless and only a tool used by politicians and other leaders to attain their political objectives and emotionally appeal to the masses, which is why i find it funny seeing all those fake Arab nationalists(Baathists, Nasserists, and the more pathetic followers of what we call in Libya "el fikr el jamaheery") marxists, etc.

 

[.zero]

Ahh Hitler

one of this forums favorite topics

 

[GordoDeCentral]

As is any hypothetical argument. I hate any argument that will decide that one thing is the reason/cause/solution etc. Because nothing is ever that simple, my point still stands - I do not rate Stalin as the all powerful leader that you seem to believe he is, but I also hold the same opinion of the majority of the world leaders of the past century/150 years....especially Hitler.

it is that simple, no one out there but Adolf could have done what he did, has circumstances helped here and there? sure, hoever it does discount the ineluctable fact that greatness is there whether you choose to believe in its existence or not.

 

[Fred]

Is he? I don't think we have two sides on that debate. I think we all agree on hating the arsehole

 

[Ford Prefect]

Ahh Hitler

one of this forums favorite topics

I kind of self invoked godwins law, but you have to include him when discussing the charade of unified power as much as musollini or stalin or castro etc. One of the few people I rate is Mao but then again he also has the highest murder rate of the lot....I wonder if theres something to that :shfity:

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Ahh Hitler

one of this forums favorite topics

this arguing about irrelevant things that most of us have little knowledge of is a great sport, especially in this gloomy morning we have here you should try it baboon ball sweat

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Playing with my new Galaxy Nexus man I love this phone! People who said the sgs2 was better are confused

 

[.zero]

I kind of self invoked godwins law, but you have to include him when discussing the charade of unified power as much as musollini or stalin or castro etc. One of the few people I rate is Mao but then again he also has the highest murder rate of the lot....I wonder if theres something to that :shfity:

I rate Mao very highly. His obscurity (which is placed by those who are ill-informed) should not mask his sheer greatness

 

[Nzoric]

10-11, but mostly 11 these days.

No way! I'm a 9 1/2 xD

 

[Ford Prefect]

it is that simple, no one out there but Adolf could have done what he did, has circumstances helped here and there? sure, hoever it does discount the ineluctable fact that greatness is there whether you choose to believe in its existence or not.

I don't mean to insult you by this but how much European history do you know? Hitler had the perfect circumstance for what he did, from versailes to the weakness of the other european states, he got noticed and a series of fortunate events allowed him to seize power at which point cumulative radicalization took over - Goering, Goebbels, Himler etc. etc. Wielded as much power behind closed doors. Goebbels perhaps even had more power given his role in the nazi regime.

We got this shit rammed down our throats from the age of 10 - understanding what happened and why, when we got to 17/18 we were actually taught about the reality of what went on within the nazi party/regime and to say that Hitler was really in control of what was going on is a gross misunderstanding..