We must learn to play without Nedved (5 Viewers)

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
This is the longest you have ever typed and surprise surprise its not about football

Now is it really? Let me answer that: no it's not, if we've already went there, then this is the longest I have typed, and surprise, surprise, it is about football:

++ [ originally posted by GOAT ] ++
Continuing Ian's plan of posting topics for passionate discussions, this thread is about Del Piero, and I expect it to get a fair bit of attention with all the Dp lovers and the DP bashers out there, especially Zizou.

We all know the brilliance of Juve's golden boy of before (pre 1998), but he has never quite managed to get back to his old self. We keep waiting for the odd brilliance of our captain to come, but it very rarely does, and if it does, it's almost never against the big teams. Lets face it: Del Piero is a choker. Altho he's our captain and he's expected to lead the way by example for the other players, he's never able to perform on the big stage. As the captain, he's supposed to be our go-to guy, the one that's supposed to make something happen when all hope is lost and morale is low. In that department too, he has failed miserably. I believe we have all seen this years CL games and I mus say that DP has failed to live up to his high standards set at the start of the season. Whoever says otherwise must be blind or biased. He was nowhere to be found in games against Barcelona and Real Madrid, and not to mention the Final against Milan. He missed the penalty against Deportivo La coruna that would have seen us go to the next round of CL. He seems to be lost in all the excitement, the pressure to win and the he runs away from the ball. When he does get it, you can bet your money, house, wife and kids he's going to lose it. Why? Because he's a choker! He folds under the pressure trying too hard to do whats expected of him but again failing miserably. How can you expect the team to take the heat if the captain, the leader cant? And this is not only a problem in the Juve shirt. We all remember the EC 2000 Final when Del Piero missed 3 clear cut chances to decide the game. This is what leadership should be all about: Skills, but also winning mentality, and coolness.

Take the captain's armband from him and give it to someone who deserves it, someone who will take the responsibility on his shoulders when it's neccessary: give it to Nedved, Thuram or even Buffon. We all know they deserve it more.

++ [ originally posted by GOAT ] ++
After seeing his fantastic performances last year, I would have to say yes. I'm completely stunned and shocked by UEFA's choice of Roberto Carlos as last seasons best defender, for many reasons. Firstly, his last season was nothing out of the ordinary. He had his fair share of good games, but also a bit of bad ones, especially in the Semi Finals against Juventus where he was completely outplayed by our golden-boy Zambrotta. Secondly, he is world famous for everything and anything other than his defending, which is what awards for best defender should be all about. He did not score many of his characteristic goals, nor did he wreck havoc among oposittion defences at the end of the season, in the CL.

On the other hand, and I could be just a bit biased here, Lilian Thuram was unbeliavably consistant in his world class performances all year, in Serie A as much as in the Champions League. His defending skills were abmirable, and altho his offensive skills may not be as developed as Carlos', he did his fair share of helping out on the opposition's half of the pitch. In games against Barcelona and Real Madrid he showed nothing less than textbook performances, literally holding the ageing defence together by himself. He proved he has the best head in football, as far as both heading out the ball and intelligence on the field is concerned. Another admirable part of his personality is his steel character, which allows him to always remain calm and behave in the spirit of fair play, and he would undoubtably make a better role model for children all around the world than a temperamental, ref-attacking superstar with a huge ego.

In my opinion, the Dest Defender award wrongfully passed by Thuram and into Carlos' hands, for reasons that probably have less to do with football and more with business and marketing.

++ [ originally posted by GOAT ] ++
We are just days away from the deciding matches of the EC Quals, and there are bound to be some interesting matches ahead. The most interesting group, however, is Group 2 where 4 teams, all except Luxembourg, can qualify.

The deciding match for Group 2 will be the Bosnia&Herzegovina - Denmark match, which will take place in Sarajevo, on October 11th. Bosnia beat Denmark 2-0 in the first match In Copenhagen, and the return will surely be a fight to the death as win would guarantee Bosnia a place in Portugal as the first placed team in the group, while Denmark would finish second and hence play 2 playoff games, which, of course, they are eager to avoid. Bosnia has all to play for, as anything other than a win will see them out of the competition. Norway can still qualify as second, providing that they beat Luxembourg and that Bosnia doesnt take all 3 points from Denmark. Romania can qualify if Bosnia and Norway dont beat their respective opponents.

There has already been some controversy over the match as UEFA has done little to hide their bias towards Denmark. Bosnia was forced to change the venue for the match, from stadium Bilino Polje, Zenica, to the Koševo stadium in Sarajevo, which is a blow for the Bosnian NT considering all their home wins ih this Qual cycle came at Bilino Polje. UEFA tred to justify its decision by saying the stadium doesnt meet UEFA standards. The truth is that it doesnt meet UEFA standards and that it is in poor condition, but the fact is also that UEFA knew of all of this even before the Qualifications started, but they let Bosnia play to matches there, and in fact encouraged them to play there. Only now that Bosnia has a realistic chance of qualifying have they decided the stadium is no longer good enough. The stadium in Zenica has a different profile to the one in Sarajevo, as there is no athletic track and the fans are much closer to the players, and hence the atmosphere is much more intimidating for both the home and away players. The fans in Sarajevo, on the other hand, are more than 25 meters away from the field.
The Bosnian FA has been fined for racists chants against John Carew, but that is no reason to change the venue.

But UEFA's biased decisions didnt stop there. They assigned English referee to the match, which was met by disgust by the Bosnian FA considering that a Danish referee is in charge of the Turkey - England match!!! This may not mean there is a conspiracy against Bosnia, but you must agree its more than suspicious!

A third anti-Bosnia decision arrived yesterday, when it was decided by UEFA that the match will be played at 18.00 hours. That is a decision which will se the Bosnian FA lose more than 200.000 € in marketing and TV rights, which they would have made if the original match time of 20.00 CET had stayed.

It is apparent that UEFA, as always, is working against the smaller nation, as has happened to Bosnia before. Denmark is a much bigger footballing force than Bosnia, and Carlsberg, a Danish company, is one of the biggest sponsors of the upcoming WC, so its not hard to put 2+2 together. There is no doubt that the very powerful Scandinavian influence, considering that the top people in FIFA and UEFA are Scandinavian, is doing its best to squash Bosnias chances of qualifying for Portugal 2004.

But still, the talking will have to be done on the field, and there is no doubt the Bosnian players will leave their heart and soul on that pitch and that they will leave it victorious. This is the last chance for some of these players to qualify for a big international tournament, considering they are close to retirement, and there is no doubt this will be the most important game of their careers so far. More than 40.000 fans, as there is no doubt whatsoever that the Koševo stadium will be full, will be behind them all the way, and that we will do everything and anything for our country. I will be one of the fans at the stadium and I promise you that we will not go down without a fight. In fact, we wont go down at all.

The Danish coach, Morten Olsen, has named his 18 players for the match: Sørensen, Skov-Jensen, Helveg, M Laursen, Henriksen, N Jensen, Nielsen, Gravesen, Poulsen, Wieghorst, C Jensen, Rommedahl, Røll Larsen, Jørgensen, Grønkjær, Tomasson, Sand, Madsen.

The Bosnian coach, Blaž Slišković, has not yet announced his squad for the match. It is however expected there wont be any changes from the matches against Luxembourg and Norway, with the exception of Galatasaray and ex Real Madrid forward Elvir Baljić, who will again join the team after succesfully recovering from a knee injury. Slišković is expected to count on familiar faces, and the match formation could very well be the same, 4-4-1-1 with young Željezničar keeper Kenan Hasagić on goal, a back four of Vedin Musić (Modena), Muhamed Konjić(Coventry), Mirsad Hibić(Atletico Madrid) and Saša Papac(NK Zagreb). The midfield line will most likely consist of Elvir Baljić on the left wing, Zlatan Bajramović(Freiburg) and Marko Hrgović(Wolfsburg) in the centre of midfield, and Bayern Munchen superstar Hasan Salihamidžić on the right wing. Ex Bundesliga top scorer Sergej Barbarez(HSV) will probably play a bit behind Istambulspor's Elvir Bolić.

At the end I have just one more thing to say. Its a message to the Danes: Welcome...



WELCOME TO HELL!

And dont forget this link

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++


The thing you lack is respect and that is taught at home and at schools and that cannot be learnt on here

So now I lack respect, and you are saying my upbringing was not a success, are you denco, are you disrespecting my school(s) and family? Well, I expected nothing less from you, but like I said, you cant possibly judge me because you dont know me, and you most certanly cant say I lack respect. Why? Because you never met me and know absolutely nothing about me!!! I do have respect, the thing is I dont show it towards everyone, only to those I choose. So dont go categorizing me until you know me, and luckily, that will probably never happen.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Since thgey show so much Juventus in Bosnia, how come you never comment aboput the actual matches and give us your 2 cents in the matches thread instead of doing what you like to do best either go off topic or bash players

I was not talking about Dp in particular , I was refering to the Trezeguet as well

Get the sarcasm dude, I hardly get to see any Juve matches. If I did I would post my 100 dollars in the matches thread, and if I could I would disect every match to the tiniest detail. But I cant. And are you saying our players should be immune to criticism? I bash them when they deserve it, and they did deserve it. You wont find me critisizing an in form player, in fact I'll even try to say something nice. How unbeliavable is that

And yes, I do go off topic, and I have no problem with it. You see, I am not here only to talk about football, I am here to have fun and make friends, chat and joke with them. If you have a problem with that... well, frankly I couldnt care less, put me on your ignore shortlist and skip my posts. You do your thing and I'll do mine, and I will do my thing, be it off topic or not.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

If you know your footballas you claim you would know that from time to time Dp does in fact play the playmaker role and you would also know why herefused to play in that role against the Czech republic

Like I said, he can play there and he's not that bad actually, but he doesnt like it. And we all know Lippi wont make our Golden boy do something he doesnt like.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Again you and your pals call yourselves Juve fans and what could you say against Incubo? One fat nothing

And tell me just why I should say something against him? Because he's a Milan fan? Because he has a different opinion than yours? I dont and wont say anythnig against Incubo because there is no reason to. I may disagree with what he says, but I respect him. You see, respect. Do you respect him? I dont think you do, and if it was up to you Juve fans would unite in a crusaide against other club's supporters.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

But you want to be taken seriously when it comes to your views where it concerns where Juve should be taken when the only time you have passionately talked positive about a player is when you are trying to force your fellow Bosnian down our throat like we need that diver

First of all, I do not believe it was that pasionally since Hasan is nowhere near my favourite player. Also, the fact he is bosnian was secondary, I really did and still do believe he would be a good asset to the team. I am just more aware of his qualities because he's Bosnian. Nad like I said before, he's no more a diver than the average Juventus player.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

I do know my football and I come on here and share what I know , without continously talking about myself, or doing things which really we have an off topic thread for, I mean there is a thread which has other sports but knowing you guys you want to discuss Real Madrid in there .

Good for you, really good for you. I'm happy about that, I really am.

And like I said: You dont know me and dont think you do or ever will.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

You prove me wrong by at least once tell us how a match went or anyother thing which does not involve talking about things nothing to do with the thread

I ahve no need nor desire to prove anything to you

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

You say this is a forum , you are right but there are times and places for everything and if you think I am the only one who thinks this way , then why are your posts continually removed , then again you and your pals are oh so lucky I am not a moderator as your post count would diminish incredibly

Now thats a thought , maybe I should apply to become a mod, if to make this place dramatically improve as I am pretty sure you guys are driving the good posters away with your drivel

Actually, I dont believe my posts have been removed except on one occasion. Since when is that continually???

++ [ Dictionary.com ] ++

1. Recurring regularly or frequently: the continual need to pay the mortgage.
2. Not interrupted; steady: continual noise; a continual diet of vegetables.

Also, me and my pals are lucky you're not a mod??? Is that a threath? Because I dont really like threats, nor do they affect me. And yes, please do apply to be mod sir, I am sure your presence would make this the greatest forum in the free world

Sadly for you tho, I dont think you would become mod, you would need to be nice and unbiased towards members. Well, what you said isnt very unbiased, now is it?

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[sallyinzaghi]

good posts, both goat and denco :thumb:
whatever it is, I just don't think we should buy a player in the January transfer. we're halfway through the campaign and it might disrupt the team's rhythm.

if we wanna buy them at the end of the season, that's a different story. ciao!

 

[Zlatan]

Actually, there are rumours that we might be working on getting Lucio already in January, to beat off competition from Inter and Milan.

 

[Lilianna]

i had the same thought.
what we will do when nedved will not be abe or he'll leave...??

we can't just depend on him soooooooo much....
it's obvious that the whole juve, more or less does depend on nedved....

so lippi must think smg...quicly!

 

[Zizou]

++ [ originally posted by GOAT ] ++
Continuing Ian's plan of posting topics for passionate discussions, this thread is about Del Piero, and I expect it to get a fair bit of attention with all the Dp lovers and the DP bashers out there, especially Zizou

This is the first time I saw this thread and I don't remember contributing in it so why am I drawn in??


Anyway I have not read the posts in this topic but regarding the topic all I can say is that we do not depend on Nedved that much this year. We have enough players to play and win without him.

 

[Zizou]

Ok just read some posts from this thread. As usual denco bashing people who don't share his same thoughts and opinions

 

[Pete]

++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
good posts, both goat and denco :thumb:
whatever it is, I just don't think we should buy a player in the January transfer. we're halfway through the campaign and it might disrupt the team's rhythm.

if we wanna buy them at the end of the season, that's a different story. ciao!

Lucio sounds very appealing.
On the topic of transfers from Germany, what's the latest on Klose's inevitable move away from Kaiserslautern?

 

[KB824]

But we haven't proven that we can win without Nedved, we have proven this year that we can win, and score plenty of goals without Del Piero.

As far as all of this Icon talk.


Who cares????

I'd rather have a team that can score goals (Juve), have a world class keeper (Juve), and a young and stifling defense (NOT JUVE). this is where our weakness will show, especially as we advance into the champions league finals, and still have to play Inter, at Roma, lazio twice, and Milan again. has anyone noticed that Juve this year, out of the big 4 teams, has had the easiest road so far in Serie A?

As well as Juve is playing, Roma is probably playing better, and Inter is now starting to turn it around, and Milan will always be Milan. It's just a matter of time before this defense is exposed.

Legro and Zambrotta have been the only consistent quality of this defense. Thuram is showing his age, Montero gets credit when he DOES'NT screw up, Ferrara and Iuliano are non-factors, and this is not a defensive lineup that I, for one am particularly comfortable with.

Now, knowing Juve's policy when it comes to acquiring players, that they usually don't bring in big-name talent unless they sell big-name talent, who do you suggest that we sell?

Nedved- right. Sell him, and watch this team fold like a house of cards. fast. He is the heartbeat of this team.

Buffon- as mediocre as this defense is, we need him more than ever.

Trez- that's fine, and he would be a good target, except for the fact that he's only 25 and is finding his form.

Di Vaio- the best striker this team has right now, and the most in-form.

Davids- no one will touch him. They can have him for free in June.


So who does that leave?

Del Piero. As great as he has been in the decade that he has been here, he is our most marketable asset, would bring in the most money on the transfer market, and allow us to acquire the young talent on defense that this team desperately needs.

This team doesn't need a face or an icon. This team needs a complete unit, from front to back, that will crush teams. And inproving the defense, I feel is the best way to do it.



Denco, I respect your opinions, and although I don't know as much as you or some of the other posters in here,and never claimed to, I would hope that you would respect mine. Just because I don't agree with you on certain points doesn't make you 100% right.

 

[KB824]

And I have another question.


How is saying that del Piero should be sold in order for Juve to re-enforce themselves, bashing the man??

Bashing the man would be saying "Why don't we just get rid of DP, because nobody is going to want him anyway, because he is past his prime". That's bashing him.

I've bashed davids repeatedly, because all he is doing is taking up a roster spot.

And, BTW, if Nedved wins the golden ball this year, I think that he would more than suffice as being the new face of Juventus.

 

[Zizou]

How is saying that del Piero should be sold in order for Juve to re-enforce themselves, bashing the man??

I never understood it either. Just cos you criticise a player, people accuse of hating him. Seriously, how can you hate a player of your team?

 

[kaizer]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
This team doesn't need a face or an icon. This team needs a complete unit, from front to back, that will crush teams. And inproving the defense, I feel is the best way to do it.

i agree on that point....want an example? beckham...! when somebody mention his name, the other thing that springs to mind is manU (not victoria..!). and look @where he is.....?

ppl say manU r gonna suffer w/o him, well they do miss him sometimes....but they doing just fine w/o him IMO

so like sergio sed.....This team doesn't need a face or an icon. This team needs a complete unit, from front to back, that will crush teams


this post has no affiliation with alez DP what so ever..... just saying in in general

 

[Pete]

++ [ originally posted by kaizer ] ++

This team doesn't need a face or an icon. This team needs a complete unit, from front to back, that will crush teams

Indeed!..but who can criticise the role Del Piero plays as captain on that pitch week in, week out...when he's not injured that is..

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++

Montero gets credit when he DOES'NT screw

Too true, it's sad really

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
Trez- that's fine, and he would be a good target, except for the fact that he's only 25 and is finding his form.

People would pay a lot of money for Trezeguet. I think Juve fans are the only ones who don't rate him highly, because Treze's scored against all the other clubs.

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
Di Vaio- the best striker this team has right now, and the most in-form.

We wouldn't sell him so soon after buying him, especially since he only found his feet this season.

 

[Hydde]

Please, Just dont buy Lucio!!!! He is NOT that good.

I never have liked him,,, and after his last pèrformance in the NT against Uruguay, seriously people,,,, buying Lucio will be an error.

I have never seen a more shacky defensive performance in years, like the one he did in the last brazils game. It was something incredible people!.

He tried to clear the ball out with some volleys, but al of them just flied some meters ending in the Uruguay´s strikers feed. He tried to dribble past a player and lost the ball in a very dangerous situation. Almost did a on own goal and was 2 times leaved in shame with a "tunnel" (u know when a player pass the ball between the legs of a nother one).

He was so bad that the guys who were broadcasting the game, in the mid time, did a full review of all the mistakes he did in the first half.

HE WAS REALLY BAD.

I was with some doubts about him , but after this game im totally sure that he is not a good deal.

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


Too true, it's sad really



People would pay a lot of money for Trezeguet. I think Juve fans are the only ones who don't rate him highly, because Treze's scored against all the other clubs.



We wouldn't sell him so soon after buying him, especially since he only found his feet this season.

Gray, if you read my post again, you would see that those reason are why we CAN'T sell those players right now.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++

Gray, if you read my post again, you would see that those reason are why we CAN'T sell those players right now.

Serge, if you read my post again, you would see that

People would pay a lot of money for Trezeguet. I think Juve fans are the only ones who don't rate him highly, because Treze's scored against all the other clubs.

is an argument that we can sell him, and

We wouldn't sell him so soon after buying him, especially since he only found his feet this season.

was just a "don't worry bro, he's going nowhere"



I don't think we should sell any of our attackers until we've actually signed a replacement. We had good timing in replacing Inzaghi with Trez

 

[flieeeekke]

no one's talking and no one is going to sell trez right now.

when i talk about selling him i mean summer, when transfer window is open, when we could buy cavenaghi and when him or any other new player had time to adapt with the team.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

sell zala tudor iuliano and use all that money for one solid defender

sorry, as much as logical how we should sell delpiero, i still cant let go..

 

[denco]

Okay my retort to the 3 musketeers, no we are not gonna be exchanging chrismas presents but the fact still remains that going off topic constantly especially in match threads is disrespectful to those who do not have a pc regularly and when they do get to one, it must be annoying for them to start reading about ppl talking about basketball and themselves

@Zizou, how long have you been waiting to get that off your chest? Feel better? I hope so as you are obviously still aggrieved cos u misconstrued when u thot i was calling your ass a racist, well i was not but if you feel that way more power to you
I would give you credit as you do try to help others who have not seen matches, get an idea how we played so in that respect I got nowt against you

@Usajuventini, the one thing you do that bugs me is u keep going off topic and that is not something I like to read , and to answer your quetsion, suggetsing that Dp should be sold to free up funds is not Dp bashing but not once have you said why he should be sold, he is not in decline, he is not holding us back

Dv might be in fine fettle but as they say form is tem class is permanent and btw Trez is the most in form striker in our team , rate the amount of goals they have scored in cl, league and ther Nt

Bashing Davids too is not cool as he is not taking any roster space, at his best , he is one of the world ;s finest

@ Goat, No I am not here to make friends and all that , but I have done and I do keep our conversations private by pming then, I do not hold a convo in a match thread or then again I could take their email address and I am certainly not here to meet gals

I do not know why u keep harping on I would not get to know you, as I aint here to do that, but you obviuosly think a lot of yourself maybe thats why u call urself the greates of all time or why you feel the need to post pics of yourself , well i guess that is your thing but for me those things are done privately

What has been nice got to do with bein a mod, if you post off topic your post should be deleted , it is that simple. But as my friends on the net and those I know off the net would testify I am nice but fair is fair, this is a football forum so discuss football for crying out loud

Anyways this is the last time I am gonna talk about this as it way off topic and its getting boring and nothing I would say would stop u guys from going off topic all the time

 

[gray]

A little harsh in the execution, but i must agree with the underlying argument. I know i'm guilty of it myself, and i dunno if anyone's noticed, but i've honestly held myself back in recent days/weeks