[WC] World Cup 2010 - General Talk Thread (69 Viewers)
- Thread starter Tommy
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African teams didn't do good, not because they are not, but because they are not well managed (not really talking about the coach factor).
Most of the big African countries are in the end of a cycle; teams like Cameroon, Egypt, Nigeria and Ivory coast to some extent. I didn't expect anything from them in the world cup. Algeria too, but for other reasons.
In fact, I think that if future coaches manages to do the right things and decide to completely start with another era and a new set of players (only keeping the important players, perhaps) instead of always relying with old chaps, it will do good. African teams are also in needs of some stability with their coaches, and they need to stop starting all over again by sacking their coach each time they face. These are problems Europeans don't have and this is a portion of reasons that explains why Africa have some difficulties.
You could also say that some teams are complexed when facing South-American and European teams. They should take example of Ghana. All in all, if Africa do the right things, some people could really be surprised.
Most of the big African countries are in the end of a cycle; teams like Cameroon, Egypt, Nigeria and Ivory coast to some extent. I didn't expect anything from them in the world cup. Algeria too, but for other reasons.
In fact, I think that if future coaches manages to do the right things and decide to completely start with another era and a new set of players (only keeping the important players, perhaps) instead of always relying with old chaps, it will do good. African teams are also in needs of some stability with their coaches, and they need to stop starting all over again by sacking their coach each time they face. These are problems Europeans don't have and this is a portion of reasons that explains why Africa have some difficulties.
You could also say that some teams are complexed when facing South-American and European teams. They should take example of Ghana. All in all, if Africa do the right things, some people could really be surprised.
In the biggest European teams the African players add the much needed muscles and fitness to the unit and complement the brains in the team which are usually provided by the SA and European players.
But when they're alone and have to form the unit by themselves, there is a surplus of muscles and shortage of brains.
They need more Okocha's and I don't see many/any around. I see sheer power in Muntari, Essien, Drogba, but not an Okocha.
But when they're alone and have to form the unit by themselves, there is a surplus of muscles and shortage of brains.
They need more Okocha's and I don't see many/any around. I see sheer power in Muntari, Essien, Drogba, but not an Okocha.
And I partly blame the Europeans for this. When the rich European goes to Africa he sees people who are physically stronger than him, he buys them to play football and trains them to use their muscles. He pays them not to think but to destroy and to fight. He will buy a boy in Brazil to do the dribbling and organize the play. The African boy has no business doing that. He is trained to kill the beauty in the game. In long run you will get Capello's dream team, incapable of doing well in knock-out competitions.
I agree, even if you're generalizing. Most of the African countries do need to stop over-relying on power and muscles, but this is not the case of all countries.
Perhaps, if we're talking about North-African countries, normally, it's the opposite. Algeria, by example, do have some skilled youngsters like Boudebouz (19 year old), Feghouli (will most probably play for Algeria), Belfoldil, Ziaya, Etc. These players may or may not develop, but they do have raw talent. We'll see if that turns out well for them.
That is an interesting point.
Perhaps, if we're talking about North-African countries, normally, it's the opposite. Algeria, by example, do have some skilled youngsters like Boudebouz (19 year old), Feghouli (will most probably play for Algeria), Belfoldil, Ziaya, Etc. These players may or may not develop, but they do have raw talent. We'll see if that turns out well for them.
That is an interesting point.
North Africa is actually the place where I'd work more seriously if I was a rich European who runs a football club.
The problem is that, from what Fred has been saying, the north African countries are more protective of their players and they don't let them go with ease as the rest of the continent does. In return, the players don't get the good conditions to develop.
Another problem is that with the west African kids you know that you will get what you're asking- muscles. You can train that guy and he can be the best in what he does.
With the north Africans you can't be sure if they'll turn out great and the Europeans prefer to look for "brains" (well, I don't like using this word because it implies that some have him and others don't) where they know they will find it without taking the risk if they look for it in South America.
The problem is that, from what Fred has been saying, the north African countries are more protective of their players and they don't let them go with ease as the rest of the continent does. In return, the players don't get the good conditions to develop.
Another problem is that with the west African kids you know that you will get what you're asking- muscles. You can train that guy and he can be the best in what he does.
With the north Africans you can't be sure if they'll turn out great and the Europeans prefer to look for "brains" (well, I don't like using this word because it implies that some have him and others don't) where they know they will find it without taking the risk if they look for it in South America.
He's right.
That is true. South-Americans are obviously much less of a gamble than North Africans. However, I can see why the Algerian football league (if we take Algeria's case), is not that followed by scouts. The Chemma league is a decent African one, but it is not a serious league.
It's a shame, because the league was really good back in the 80's and produced a lot of great players. Back then, it was controlled by the government (government also invested a lot in it) and it really was well structured. As a result, in WC 1982 and with players exclusively playing in Chemma league (Algerian league), Algeria outplayed RFA's Rummenigge and only miss out on the round of 16 because of a conspiracy between the Germans and the Austrians (and it is also because of this match, if now, the last match of the groups are played at the same time).
Then in the 90's, terrorism hit the country and the government rightly stopped investing in football. Football wasn't important in that time and rightly so. Hell, people barely wanted to go out, because of the fear of being killed. It calmed down in the late 90's, though, but the league since then never have been the same.
However, since football is truly considered as a religion and is played by millions and millions of people (not necessarily professionally, obviously), I do think that if North Africa (and Africa in general too) would have the same sort of football academy, instalments, tutoring and seriousness as the Europeans, we would obviously have a lot of great players. But it will never happen, for obvious reasons.
That is true. South-Americans are obviously much less of a gamble than North Africans. However, I can see why the Algerian football league (if we take Algeria's case), is not that followed by scouts. The Chemma league is a decent African one, but it is not a serious league.
It's a shame, because the league was really good back in the 80's and produced a lot of great players. Back then, it was controlled by the government (government also invested a lot in it) and it really was well structured. As a result, in WC 1982 and with players exclusively playing in Chemma league (Algerian league), Algeria outplayed RFA's Rummenigge and only miss out on the round of 16 because of a conspiracy between the Germans and the Austrians (and it is also because of this match, if now, the last match of the groups are played at the same time).
Then in the 90's, terrorism hit the country and the government rightly stopped investing in football. Football wasn't important in that time and rightly so. Hell, people barely wanted to go out, because of the fear of being killed. It calmed down in the late 90's, though, but the league since then never have been the same.
However, since football is truly considered as a religion and is played by millions and millions of people (not necessarily professionally, obviously), I do think that if North Africa (and Africa in general too) would have the same sort of football academy, instalments, tutoring and seriousness as the Europeans, we would obviously have a lot of great players. But it will never happen, for obvious reasons.
Nah. Take it from Africa. They were even worse than CONCACAF teams this past month. Ghana is all they've got.
Once you start taking spots from CONCACAF, then the Europeans will want to do the same with Asia, then Africa, et cetera. Rinse and repeat. Give a mouse a cookie and he'll want a glass of milk.
God knows we have to allow brilliant teams like Finland, Austria, Bulgaria and Latvia qualify, considering they add so much quality.
Again, if you're going to brag about how great European football is, then you have to accept that some sides will not qualify for the World Cup. If a side like Sweden doesn't qualify, it is their fault. Don't hold it against sides like Honduras, whom I predicted would draw the Swiss when few others did. Some of these nations get little credit on any level.
And to be honest, it's only the good sides pulling Europe along. Look at how Greece, Slovenia, France, Serbia, Denmark, and the Swiss all crashed out of their groups this year while Asians, South Americans and North Americans went on instead.
So no, I refuse to give up a CONCACAF spot now that I think of it. We deserve three spots and one playoff with SA. Nobody wants to see Greece or some of those other sides at World Cups, so fuck em. Put and qualify or shutup.
Once you start taking spots from CONCACAF, then the Europeans will want to do the same with Asia, then Africa, et cetera. Rinse and repeat. Give a mouse a cookie and he'll want a glass of milk.
God knows we have to allow brilliant teams like Finland, Austria, Bulgaria and Latvia qualify, considering they add so much quality.
Again, if you're going to brag about how great European football is, then you have to accept that some sides will not qualify for the World Cup. If a side like Sweden doesn't qualify, it is their fault. Don't hold it against sides like Honduras, whom I predicted would draw the Swiss when few others did. Some of these nations get little credit on any level.
And to be honest, it's only the good sides pulling Europe along. Look at how Greece, Slovenia, France, Serbia, Denmark, and the Swiss all crashed out of their groups this year while Asians, South Americans and North Americans went on instead.
So no, I refuse to give up a CONCACAF spot now that I think of it. We deserve three spots and one playoff with SA. Nobody wants to see Greece or some of those other sides at World Cups, so fuck em. Put and qualify or shutup.
So how many certain spots would you allocate Asia and North America then?
Africa has proven they do not deserve any extra spots, but other regions have. South Korea and Japan did well this time around to make it through. South America also had a pretty solid World Cup.
I'm not for taking more spots from Europe. Personally, I think things are fine the way they are now. Fine. Europe having 40% of the spots is quite fair, I'd say.
The issue that needs to be discussed is the quality of the refereeing, not allocation.
Africa has proven they do not deserve any extra spots, but other regions have. South Korea and Japan did well this time around to make it through. South America also had a pretty solid World Cup.
I'm not for taking more spots from Europe. Personally, I think things are fine the way they are now. Fine. Europe having 40% of the spots is quite fair, I'd say.
The issue that needs to be discussed is the quality of the refereeing, not allocation.