I'll probably be changing my answer after I read some important legal documents relating to this scandal.
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Was Juve's relegation fair? (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
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We were wrongfully relegated. The only way for us to be relegated was to be in complete violation of article 6. Article 6 is illicit activity or in other words match fixing. No article 6 violations were found against Juve, so the CAF and FIGC did what has never been done before. They created (and then later annulled after the scandel) a structured article violation adding together various article 1 violations to compose an article 6 violation. It's like building up a bunch of little crimes and being trialed for one huge thing. It's like saying 3 robbery accounts = 1 murder account. This was widely criticized by other judges and lawyers. The wiretaps are a bunch of crap. I heard one conversation between moggi and Paparesta, and Paparesta tries to apologize for ruining Juve’s game against Reggina the day before then Moggi insults him and hangs up.... nothing more. Which is why no actual wiretaps were submitted in court. I also heard 2 other wiretaps where actual match fixing took place, and it wasn't moggi doing the talking. Milan's meani sets up this secret meeting between Collina and Galliani, and then in the other one an FIGC president and major Lazio investor tries to condition referee designer Bergamo to send partial referees to help Lazio out. You can take note that lazio and milan were both under direct violation of article 6 meaning they should of been relegated, instead juve was.
- No wire taps were heard in court. Just pieces of tanscripts were used, transcripts that have been manipulated by those that provided them to the court.
- No video evidence was allowed to be used by the defence.
- No witnesses were allowed to be brought forth either (all these things were seen as "irrelevant" to the case?)
- The defence had little more than 3 days to compile their arguments and that they were not presented with the evidence prior to the trial as opposed to what the law dictates…instead the press got a hold of the prosecution’s information first. Is it any wonder? Inter VP Carlo Buare owns la Gazzetta dello Sport and it is run by two major Inter Investors (Verdelli and Cannavo’) while il Corriere dello Sport is run by Bartolozzi (Inter Team Manager).
here's 2 different judges speaking about the juve case:
Judge Pier Sandulli had an interview in “Il Giornale” on the 27th of July 2006, where he was asked what the reasoning was behind the sentence he approved. His response was “there was no illicit activity; the 2004-2005 season was not fixed. The only doubt we had was Lecce-Parma (which obviously doesn't concern juve or moggi) which we looked at again and again (with no video…whatever). In any case the season was legit.” I’ll just add that Sandulli has a criminal record for fraudulent activity while at Rome’s City Hall and is a die hard Lazio fan.
Judge Mario Serio stated in an interview in “La Repubblica” on the 27th of July 2006 (also available online) that “in spite of a lack of evidence regarding match fixing, Juventus were sentenced to Serie B and stripped of their titles after taking into consideration the collective interests of the parties involved in the investigation.” All of which happened to be Interista and not just from a fan point of view. See the facebook group to see who the key players in the investigation were and how they were tied to Inter. It's actually funny. In the end this is like being accused of murder, finding out that the alleged victim is still alive, and going to prison anyway because your neighbours don't like you.
Not to mention the TAR appeal which Juventus retracted. The appeal was considered to be profound enough to clear Juve’s name and crush the system that governs Italian soccer. After the appeal was retracted the FIGC publically thanked Luce di Montezemolo (FIAT Director and Ferrari President). Month’s later the same Tronchetti owned Telecom Italia that spied on Juventus sponsored Ferrari SpA in Formula 1. You scrath my back I'll scrath your back. That's all it was.
We fans were the ones who suffered. I can't tell you how many serie b games I watched, and all for nothing. We have to start over when we did nothing wrong in the first place. We didn't deserve it. Period.
What else can I say? Mark was right?
This is only a piece of the pie, their is plenty of other information.
- No wire taps were heard in court. Just pieces of tanscripts were used, transcripts that have been manipulated by those that provided them to the court.
- No video evidence was allowed to be used by the defence.
- No witnesses were allowed to be brought forth either (all these things were seen as "irrelevant" to the case?)
- The defence had little more than 3 days to compile their arguments and that they were not presented with the evidence prior to the trial as opposed to what the law dictates…instead the press got a hold of the prosecution’s information first. Is it any wonder? Inter VP Carlo Buare owns la Gazzetta dello Sport and it is run by two major Inter Investors (Verdelli and Cannavo’) while il Corriere dello Sport is run by Bartolozzi (Inter Team Manager).
here's 2 different judges speaking about the juve case:
Judge Pier Sandulli had an interview in “Il Giornale” on the 27th of July 2006, where he was asked what the reasoning was behind the sentence he approved. His response was “there was no illicit activity; the 2004-2005 season was not fixed. The only doubt we had was Lecce-Parma (which obviously doesn't concern juve or moggi) which we looked at again and again (with no video…whatever). In any case the season was legit.” I’ll just add that Sandulli has a criminal record for fraudulent activity while at Rome’s City Hall and is a die hard Lazio fan.
Judge Mario Serio stated in an interview in “La Repubblica” on the 27th of July 2006 (also available online) that “in spite of a lack of evidence regarding match fixing, Juventus were sentenced to Serie B and stripped of their titles after taking into consideration the collective interests of the parties involved in the investigation.” All of which happened to be Interista and not just from a fan point of view. See the facebook group to see who the key players in the investigation were and how they were tied to Inter. It's actually funny. In the end this is like being accused of murder, finding out that the alleged victim is still alive, and going to prison anyway because your neighbours don't like you.
Not to mention the TAR appeal which Juventus retracted. The appeal was considered to be profound enough to clear Juve’s name and crush the system that governs Italian soccer. After the appeal was retracted the FIGC publically thanked Luce di Montezemolo (FIAT Director and Ferrari President). Month’s later the same Tronchetti owned Telecom Italia that spied on Juventus sponsored Ferrari SpA in Formula 1. You scrath my back I'll scrath your back. That's all it was.
We fans were the ones who suffered. I can't tell you how many serie b games I watched, and all for nothing. We have to start over when we did nothing wrong in the first place. We didn't deserve it. Period.
What else can I say? Mark was right?
This is only a piece of the pie, their is plenty of other information.
Most people defending Juve's relegation go by the 'The other teams werent punished.So we shouldnt have been either'.Thats logic's twisted.Its like saying that if 4 drunk guys go and kill someone,3 of them get away and the 4th one is punished,it means that the 4th one is innocent too simply because the other 3 werent punished.
The correct argument is that the trail wasnt fair.But the punishment handed out to the 4th guy was fair.The other 3 should have been punished too,but just because they werent doesnt make the 4th guy innocent.
The correct argument is that the trail wasnt fair.But the punishment handed out to the 4th guy was fair.The other 3 should have been punished too,but just because they werent doesnt make the 4th guy innocent.
