WAHAHAHA!! Aliens!!!! (13 Viewers)

[Seven]

Also, Ze, the reason I don't generally discuss the content of the book is that the content shows us nothing. Based on that alone the Bible or any other book about religion is just as valid.

You can't say this is the one true book, because that's what's written in the book.

 

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[Zé Tahir]

Also, Ze, the reason I don't generally discuss the content of the book is that the content shows us nothing. Based on that alone the Bible or any other book about religion is just as valid.

You can't say this is the one true book, because that's what's written in the book.

But then why stray onto topics that have everything to do with the contents? Like this whole science argument...there is lots of scientific evidence in the Qur'an but you don't want to get into that.

 

[Seven]

Science proves God and supports the Qur'an. Unlike Christianity, our "church" never argued that the world is flat or that the sun revolves around earth. It never claimed that the earth is only 6k years old. It didn't imprison scientists.

This whole "compatibility" thing therefore doesn't make sense to me because there is no conflict.

I'm still waiting to hear your explanation about this, Ze.

But then why stray onto topics that have everything to do with the contents? Like this whole science argument...there is lots of scientific evidence in the Qur'an but you don't want to get into that.

A big factor is also that I don't speak Arabic and one would need it for full comprehension of the Quran. As far as I can tell the Quran is full of science, indeed, but it's rather rudimentary and vague. It doesn't really tell you how things work, it gives you some vague idea and you can basically do whatever you want with that. But anyways, claiming that the Quran is 100% compatible with science is insane.

Does the Quran say something about the planet Venus?

 

[JBF]

No and it didn't mention the 6 billion walking on the face of the Earth these days IT HAS TO BE WRONG!! After all, according to your logic, unless you talk about everything you know nothing.

 

[Seven]

No and it didn't mention the 6 billion walking on the face of the Earth these days IT HAS TO BE WRONG!! After all, according to your logic, unless you talk about everything you know nothing.

Okay, so it doesn't know anything about Venus.

What does it say about organ transplants?

 

[mikhail]

I'd settle for a verifiably centuries old manuscript which contained a description of the strong nuclear force, the Hubble constant, the number of planets orbiting a nearby star - something, anything, which is verifiable but couldn't possibly be measured without relatively modern equipment. Without that, all I'm seeing is people reading what they want to into something vague, no more impressive than Nostradamus's predictions.

 

[swag]

Okay, so it doesn't know anything about Venus.

What does it say about organ transplants?

I'd like a Wurlitzer, please.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Okay, so it doesn't know anything about Venus.

What does it say about organ transplants?

I'd settle for a verifiably centuries old manuscript which contained a description of the strong nuclear force, the Hubble constant, the number of planets orbiting a nearby star - something, anything, which is verifiable but couldn't possibly be measured without relatively modern equipment. Without that, all I'm seeing is people reading what they want to into something vague, no more impressive than Nostradamus's predictions.

There is a serious misconception of what the Qur'an is and what it contains (surprise). It's not a book of science, you're not going to find the periodical table in there even if had been known at the time. That is simply not the purpose of the book. The fact that it has scientific content in the book is to prove it's authenticity.

As to what is mentioned; I've posted these links on these forums at least twice before, I suggest you guys bookmark them this time.

http://miraclesofthequran.com/index2.php

http://www.alislam.org/library/science.html

 

[rounder]

Depends on what you mean by "wrong". That teachings and the practices of their followers today are wrong? Yes. That the original words of the Torah and the Bible are wrong? No.

I believe Judaism and Christianity were the word of God sent down for different time periods for different people. Islam is considered the last word of God, the last and complete religion (no other religion or book is to follow).

Right, I think first it's obvious that all religions can't be right. They can all be wrong but they can't all be right. Now you are telling me that the Qur'an's teachings are right but the those of Christianity or Judaism are wrong. But why? How can you be certain?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Right, I think first it's obvious that all religions can't be right. They can all be wrong but they can't all be right. Now you are telling me that the Qur'an's teachings are right but the those of Christianity or Judaism are wrong. But why? How can you be certain?

Where did I say they were wrong? I said the way their followers interpret them today is wrong which includes the changes they've made. Why? Because Jesus was only sent to the Israelites (the Lost Tribes). Jews denied him while Christians worship him.

 

[rounder]

Where did I say they were wrong? I said the way their followers interpret them today is wrong which includes the changes they've made. Why? Because Jesus was only sent to the Israelites (the Lost Tribes). Jews denied him while Christians worship him.

I'm sorry, I'm not following. How does this prove that the way their followers interpret them today is wrong?

Another question. The Bible claims that Jesus was the son of God. The Qur'an claims that he was a mortal prophet. Someone has to be wrong, or both. Meaning if the Qur'an was right, that would necessarily mean that Christianity is wrong and vice versa. how can you be sure which one is right?

 

[Zé Tahir]

I'm sorry, I'm not following. How does this prove that the way their followers interpret them today is wrong?

Another question. The Bible claims that Jesus was the son of God. The Qur'an claims that he was a mortal prophet. Someone has to be wrong, or both. Meaning if the Qur'an was right, that would necessarily mean that Christianity is wrong and vice versa.

Well I don't know what you expect, these things can't be 'settled' as fast as it took you to write the question.

 

[rounder]

Well I don't know what you expect, these things can't be 'settled' as fast as it took you to write the question.

I don't expect an answer. The point I'm trying to make is that when you accept the 'word' of a religion being a truth, you are dismissing the claims of every other religion in the world. I want to know the truth, I really do, but I've found very troublesome to just have faith in a certain religion when the implications are tremendous. If I choose to be a Christian, I have decided that Islam and its billions of followers all over the world are all wrong. If I am to make such a choice, I had better have a very good reason.

From what I've seen, there isn't really a good reason to believe one religion over another using logic and reason. I believe that some kind of God exists, life would be absurd if this weren't true. I'm just not willing to take that extra step by claming to know his properties and qualities. I'm just interested to see why people who take that extra step do so.

 

[Naggar]

Does that really sound likely? When books are copied by hand, someone at some point will make a mistake.

But if I were a muslim, I'd consider this a very good thing. Because that would mean that the Quran leaves room for modern day science. You can't say the book is 100% correct, because clearly it isn't, but you could argue that it is 99% correct.

The Bible was decided upon by a tyranical roman ruler and excluded upwards of 200 gospels, the same might well be true for Islam, in fact there's a 99% probability that it is.

you know, both of you can't base an argument on probabilities without facts..
we all know the bibles of judaism and christianity have been changed intentionally in history, but nothing says that about Quran, you're basing this on absolutely nothing but guesses..

To answer the first question being asked in this thread. No, the existence of aliens doesn't disprove anything that has to do with religion. Religious books didn't mention anything about the theory of relativity; I guess we should have burned them all a long time ago. And no, you aren't supposed to take these books literally word for word.

Now even though I'm not really against the idea of burning all religious books as I don't think they've done the world much good.; I think honesty is important. None of this really hurts religion or religious people in any way. Unless ofcourse you're one of those special people who believe that a man lived inside a big fish and another dude split the ocean in two.

personally, and that is a personal opinion, I believe the main point is that we all learn to accept each others beliefs and religions -as well as opinions-, be more open-minded and live peacefully
but what we did is fighting and shedding blood for holy lands and which is the truest religion
imagine life where all people learn to respect other beliefs, something like Saladin's Jerusalem, living peacefully, to me this would be exactly what God wanted to happen
won't that be better than burning all the books?

I don't expect an answer. The point I'm trying to make is that when you accept the 'word' of a religion being a truth, you are dismissing the claims of every other religion in the world. I want to know the truth, I really do, but I've found very troublesome to just have faith in a certain religion when the implications are tremendous. If I choose to be a Christian, I have decided that Islam and its billions of followers all over the world are all wrong. If I am to make such a choice, I had better have a very good reason.

From what I've seen, there isn't really a good reason to believe one religion over another using logic and reason. I believe that some kind of God exists, life would be absurd if this weren't true. I'm just not willing to take that extra step by claming to know his properties and qualities. I'm just interested to see why people who take that extra step do so.

I'd say the same I just said plus, I think if one just believed in God inside and did everything in life with good intentions then that would be good enough
no need to judge others, blast other beliefs, shed blood for holy lands and all that in the name of religion, that was never the point of it

 

[Seven]

I'm basing it on men not being Gods.

 

[Naggar]

nothing in history says the Iliad and Odyssy changed at all

 

[Seven]

nothing in history says the Iliad and Odyssy changed at all

I don't think you have any idea about the historical research around the Iliand and the Odyssey. None whatsoever in fact, because otherwise you wouldn't be saying this.

 

[Naggar]

No I don't, but I'm using it as an example for something too old and still available (possibily in its original copy) if not then it's my mistake.


but you get my point, nothing in history says Quran changed at all

 

[Seven]

There IS no "original copy" of the Iliad.

 

[cunninlynguists]

Oh guys please... we started talking about Aliens and suddenly we are discussing the validity of the Bible, Qur'an etc.
I think we all know that such discussions lead nowhere, so we better stop it.

But I got something for you, if we're talking about aliens and stuff: