UK Politics (30 Viewers)

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,511
I find the nazi card just as weak tbh

I think society needs a open discussion about this, without always the racism/nazi card
Sure. But also how about we call a call a spade a spade? Some of these parties are litteral neo nazis at their foundation, 3rd biggiest party in sweden (soon 2nd biggiest), are litterally fundamentally neo nazis, founded as one.

They did Hitler salutes and showed off Nazi memorabilia just a decade ago. And now try to be populist but act like outright racists with Nazi related scandal with members every month. They just changing rhetoric to focusing on Jews as they did nonstop to now Muslims. More acceptable target. But the tactic is the same.


Similar story with AFD in Germany, they long for the good old days and are outright idolise it. Le Pen family are not nazi related, but are outright racists.


There's difference between sound conservative right leaning parties (several in sweden), and right wing extremist parties that have neo nazism in their core values and identity. They don't shy away from it. They just spin it differently for populism that's founded in fear mongering racism, not solutions.

Many countries have their versions of these parties (UK does too, who do you think are flaming these riots in social media) and not all fringe extremists, most of them are growing to established levels (but what they stand for barely change, just verbal package). And if they not growing, it's because established parties are piggy backing on their rhetorics to steal voting bases from them.



It's the utter failure of mainstream parties in power that leads to these radical extremists growing. That's undeniable. But doesn't mean you don't call a spade a spade still.
 

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Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,511

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,511
Two of the co-founders of the RN (back then the Front National) alongside Jean-Marie Le Pen were nazi collaborators who served in the ss.
Jesus, I thought they were regular ol racist. Not uber mensch French Nazis at their foundation too.


One of the founding members for Swedish Democrats/BSS in late 80s is a litteral former SS soldier who wanted to grow the neo nazi movement in Sweden.
 

icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
36,375
Jesus, I thought they were regular ol racist. Not uber mensch French Nazis at their foundation too.


One of the founding members for Swedish Democrats/BSS in late 80s is a litteral former SS soldier who wanted to grow the neo nazi movement in Sweden.
Growing up I remember reading/being taught that Nazis were defeated and driven away. It wasn’t until much later that I learnt that Germany (and the west at large) quickly gave up denazification because of the threat of Cold War. So I guess I’m not surprised at a lot of these parties existing and to some extent thriving now. A lot of people have waited a long time to get their day in the sun.
 

Bianconero_Aus

Beppe Marotta Is My God
May 26, 2009
81,197
Growing up I remember reading/being taught that Nazis were defeated and driven away. It wasn’t until much later that I learnt that Germany (and the west at large) quickly gave up denazification because of the threat of Cold War. So I guess I’m not surprised at a lot of these parties existing and to some extent thriving now. A lot of people have waited a long time to get their day in the sun.
Operation Gladio bitches.
 
Jun 16, 2020
12,435
Silencing a painful discussion will cause more harm. It will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Migration over decades -> native population complains -> they get framed as racist or Nazi -> they'll vote for more right-wing parties because their voices aren't heard by the other parties -> radical/extreme parties will, over time, govern the majority of EU countries.
 

Mokku

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2019
2,730
I live in London. Let me give the facts:
1. Stabbings by a British born with African parents
2. He was a Christian choirboy
3. Reports that he was just a normal kid
4. People attacking mosques
5. People attacking police
6. Indiscriminate vandalism

What the protesters believe:
1. UK is less than 15% of Muslims, but country is being Islamified apparently
2. Police didn't stop Palestine protests but are out for these protests, unfair (they can't see the level of their own violence)
3. Stop the boats (a legitimate discussion point)

Some facts about EDL and similar groups (clips are on social media) :
1. Leader Tommy Robinson lives in Spain
2. One lady believe that the Titanic sank because of there being too many people on board, dismisses the involvement of the iceberg
3. The legend who says that the evil Muslims are making a "Muslamic ray gun" - guy even has a song about it

My take is that they are concerned about immigration and that is a valid concern and should be discussed. Unfortunately, these fuckers are so stupid to the level that they can't construct a sentence. I worked at West Ham and met thousands, they have the cognitive ability of 3 year olds. They'll lick a Vindaloo of the street, but hate Indians at the same time.

What they want to say (based on the demographic of the rioters) is that immigrants are taking their jobs and money that should be given to them. Despite UK not producing much talent in anything, they should not hire foreigners, but in London at least no hospital could last a day without foreign skilled or willing to do jobs that these lazy shits want to do.

I know London is in its own bubble, but I'll say that the Africans are the ones that make this a Christian country because only they have kept the churches alive. Other groups that have built places of worship have done so for their community, they pay from their pockets and fill them up. I was in academic science for 10 years and the most brilliant minds can be found from all ethnicities. The minority in my university were British White. These literally worthless rioters can't see that the UK would be nothing with foreigners.

I'm 100% sure that had England won the Euros, there would be no riots whatsoever. This small set of idiots are that dumb.
 

Mokku

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2019
2,730
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84jjv7kp1wo

It's pretty brave to give out food to people who've come to throw bricks at your place of worship, but "they don't want to integrate" apparently.

After Muslims are removed, it will be blacks, then Eastern Europeans, mixed race, then anyone with an accent, gays, religion, poor people, smelly people, ugly people, etc until you're left with pure English cavemen.
 

IliveForJuve

Burn this club
Jan 17, 2011
18,935
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84jjv7kp1wo

It's pretty brave to give out food to people who've come to throw bricks at your place of worship, but "they don't want to integrate" apparently.

After Muslims are removed, it will be blacks, then Eastern Europeans, mixed race, then anyone with an accent, gays, religion, poor people, smelly people, ugly people, etc until you're left with pure English cavemen.

This doesn't make any sense. They'd have to off themselves.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,795
I live in London. Let me give the facts:
1. Stabbings by a British born with African parents
2. He was a Christian choirboy
3. Reports that he was just a normal kid
4. People attacking mosques
5. People attacking police
6. Indiscriminate vandalism

What the protesters believe:
1. UK is less than 15% of Muslims, but country is being Islamified apparently
2. Police didn't stop Palestine protests but are out for these protests, unfair (they can't see the level of their own violence)
3. Stop the boats (a legitimate discussion point)

Some facts about EDL and similar groups (clips are on social media) :
1. Leader Tommy Robinson lives in Spain
2. One lady believe that the Titanic sank because of there being too many people on board, dismisses the involvement of the iceberg
3. The legend who says that the evil Muslims are making a "Muslamic ray gun" - guy even has a song about it

My take is that they are concerned about immigration and that is a valid concern and should be discussed. Unfortunately, these fuckers are so stupid to the level that they can't construct a sentence. I worked at West Ham and met thousands, they have the cognitive ability of 3 year olds. They'll lick a Vindaloo of the street, but hate Indians at the same time.

What they want to say (based on the demographic of the rioters) is that immigrants are taking their jobs and money that should be given to them. Despite UK not producing much talent in anything, they should not hire foreigners, but in London at least no hospital could last a day without foreign skilled or willing to do jobs that these lazy shits want to do.

I know London is in its own bubble, but I'll say that the Africans are the ones that make this a Christian country because only they have kept the churches alive. Other groups that have built places of worship have done so for their community, they pay from their pockets and fill them up. I was in academic science for 10 years and the most brilliant minds can be found from all ethnicities. The minority in my university were British White. These literally worthless rioters can't see that the UK would be nothing with foreigners.

I'm 100% sure that had England won the Euros, there would be no riots whatsoever. This small set of idiots are that dumb.
Nice summary. And you're right about Christianity and Africans. The Catholic Church, for example, knows Europe is a lost cause. Even the U.S. South America has stagnated, and their real growth and new zealots are all in Africa now. How ironic that Africa is arguably the future of Christianity.

Nazism/fascism of 20th century is often taught as a gross aberration in "civilized" european history that left as quickly as it appeared, but in reality it was a continuation of european colonialism and its logic (white supremacy, manifest destiny, etc.) turned inwards onto europe itself. That former nazis reintegrated into the west rather easily after the war is less surprising through that lens.
Have you heard of MAGA Communists? It's a wild ride. There are people who see Trump as the white-wing populist messiah that has shifted the Overton Window to allow for a new communist social order rooted in populism. Basically, they're cheering on the MAGA maniacs to keep drinking the Kool-Aid, because they think they show the tendencies that will make them good American commies.

Their one worthy point to explore is that none of this is right or left anyway. It's all a distraction as ways of defending the moneyed interests of the capitalist oligarchy.

Has been for a long time.

Brexit was the nail in the coffin.
The exceptionalism is what bugs me. Solzhenitsyn was right about human nature. It's not just "those 20% who prefer authoritarianism". That ratio is in everybody. And all it takes is conditions, such as gang violence in El Salvador or drug lords in the Philippines, to make people switch when democratic rule seems a failure.

Brexit was the nail in the coffin, and ironically it arguably demonstrated that isolationism and nativism are a failed economic strategy in a modern world.

What's happening in many UK cities isn't all that original compared to, say, American cities when many descendants of black slaves from the South moved north for industrial jobs and moved in to traditionally white neighborhoods during the 20th century.

But it's the identity thing I struggle with. It's the "Hi, I’m your neighbor. Not only do I get to decide my own life, I get to do it for you too: whether you can live near me, your skin color, the God you worship, whether or not you can have children and how many … you know, to counter the Great Replacement. This is because of my birthright and commitment to freedom."

Xenophobia is real, and human nature will always supply plenty examples of bad people doing bad things of any race, religion, etc. But it's that belief that everyone around me has to tribally has to look a lot like me, even if I will never ever want to speak with them other than through a mobile phone on my X account. Talk about a Kool-Aid-chugging idea that's rooted in a delusional history of idyllic myths of past prosperity and community that was never true.

I grew up in a neighborhood on the edge of Chicago where everyone was a white South Sider, but half the people you couldn't trust because they were either thieves, drug addicts, or assh*les. Of course, I eventually became an emigrant willingly out of privilege, so I'm loaded with bias.
 

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