UK Politics (10 Viewers)

[Red]

Corbyn's election is a huge failure from the rest of the Labour party.

They failed to give any proper impression of what they believe.

I don't think Labour can win the next election (and that was regardless of who became leader) so I'm quite happy to see Labour start to rebuild from the left instead of trying to out-Tory the Tories.

New Labour can't recover until they manage to have a reasonable debate about Tony Blair. They need to decide what was good and what wasn't how to move forward from that. But it's still the case that any discussion of Blair starts and ends with the Iraq war and that is stopping New Labour really presenting what they want to do.

 

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[Ocelot]

 

[JuveJay]

You'll enjoy reading The Sun these days.

Anyway, Corbyn has far more serious problems to deal with in his own party. Everyone knows he's a hard leftie, and he has given opinions on all sorts of socialist figures, so people know what they would be choosing here.

 

[Ocelot]

The fact that he's basically regarded as Marx reincarnated tells you a lot about how far to the right the political centre has shifted during the past few decades.

 

[Goodfella]

The word on the street is that Dave C has been involved in some sick shit.

Pigs and shit..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-ceremony-joining-Oxford-dining-society.html

 

[JuveJay]

MPs voted by 397 to 223 in favour of air strikes in Syria, after an 11 hour debate. I watched some of the later debate, including this peach from shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn:


If you have 14 minutes spare it's worth a listen.

Less than an hour after the motion was passed the RAF launched strikes in Syria from Akrotiri.

 

[Fred]

The fact that he's basically regarded as Marx reincarnated tells you a lot about how far to the right the political centre has shifted during the past few decades.

It's also human nature to deal in extremes. Despite the fact that I don't agree with people like Sanders and Corbyn on economic issues, the way they're portrayed as marxists in the media and by their political opponents is both silly and sensationalist.

 

[JuveJay]

It's also human nature to deal in extremes. Despite the fact that I don't agree with people like Sanders and Corbyn on economic issues, the way they're portrayed as marxists in the media and by their political opponents is both silly and sensationalist.

I don't suppose it helps when his own shadow chancellor starts quoting from Chairman Mao's Little Red Book during a Commons debate.

 

[Fred]

MPs voted by 397 voted to 223 in favour of air strikes in Syria, after an 11 hour debate. I watched some of the later debate, including this peach from shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn:


If you have 14 minutes spare it's worth a listen.

Less than an hour after the motion was passed the RAF launched strikes in Syria from Akrotiri.

Worst thing about this from my point of view as a Libyan is that many ISIS fighters will probably retreat to Libya if they are heavily pounded in Iraq and Syria. We certainly don't need another infusion of ISIS fighters in our current situation

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I don't suppose it helps when his own shadow chancellor starts quoting from Chairman Mao's Little Red Book during a Commons debate.

WTF? That really did happen, I just googled it

 

[Red]

This month the phoney war over Euro membership will get slightly more real. The Electoral Commission is to issue guidance for groups wanting to register as official “campaigners” in the Brexit referendum, and an outline of the rules.

We know the Conservative party will not register, remaining officially neutral. Labour will officially campaign to stay while allowing party members to do otherwise. But the epidemic of fence-sitting cannot swerve the obvious question, the one voters should be urgently asking politicians: what will your party do if a majority of us vote to leave the EU?

For the upcoming referendum to be democratic there need to be two, real and concrete alternatives on offer. The SNP, during the yes campaign in Scotland, at least, had a shadow central bank team in place, a clear timetable and a proposal on currency, laws and natural resource allocation.
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With the EU referendum, while Ukip has published its vision for Britain outside Europe, there is no chance Ukip will be in power to enact the result. Barring accidents, it’s the Conservatives who will be in power – yet the party has published no account of what its actions would be should the referendum it has offered go against David Cameron.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2016/jan/04/real-problem-with-brexit-nobody-knows-anything

 

[Maddy]

The fact that he's basically regarded as Marx reincarnated tells you a lot about how far to the right the political centre has shifted during the past few decades.

New Labour destroyed Social Democracy. So few progressive ideas has been thought and presented that Ayn Rambling and Trickle Down-stupidity seems like a breath of fresh air and even progressive to some.

Neoclassical economics and rigth wing populism dominates Europe. What a tragedy.

 

[Red]

So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...turn-tables-bullying-britain-david-cameron-eu

 

[Juliano13]

Worst thing about this from my point of view as a Libyan is that many ISIS fighters will probably retreat to Libya if they are heavily pounded in Iraq and Syria. We certainly don't need another infusion of ISIS fighters in our current situation

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WTF? That really did happen, I just googled it

Interesting point about ISIS and Lybia. Of course, this is also another argument for ground forces.

 

[Juliano13]

Do you love everyone you've ever talked to?

If you want to take a hardline anti-war position, as Corbyn does, you have to be prepared to talk to everyone.

The end result is just about the same (whether he is pro-terrorists or anti-war). Pacifism is in many cases extremely harmful and its simply the result of people saying "war sucks" and being unable or unwilling to move their though process further.

 

[Juliano13]

Not meaning your borderline antisemitic conspiracy theories of course.

How is that borderline?

 

[Raz]

The end result is just about the same (whether he is pro-terrorists or anti-war). Pacifism is in many cases extremely harmful and its simply the result of people saying "war sucks" and being unable or unwilling to move their though process further.

How is pacifism extremely harmful?

 

[Ocelot]

The end result is just about the same (whether he is pro-terrorists or anti-war). Pacifism is in many cases extremely harmful and its simply the result of people saying "war sucks" and being unable or unwilling to move their though process further.

On the other hand, when you've seen how every military intervention in the region has brought much more problems than it solved, simply not intervening at all seems like a much better option than most of the alternatives.

How is that borderline?

True.

 

[Juliano13]

How is pacifism extremely harmful?

In some cases it is, that should be obvious. Like when USA didnt enter wwii until they were attacked (a more extreme form of pacifism would mean not entering the war even after that), or like now when we should get rid of ISIS.

 

[Juliano13]

On the other hand, when you've seen how every military intervention in the region has brought much more problems than it solved, simply not intervening at all seems like a much better option than most of the alternatives.

Certainly not every. Its not like things were so great before. Blaming all the problems in the region on our interventions is either lazy thinking or blind anti-americanism and anti-capitalism.

 

[Raz]

In some cases it is, that should be obvious. Like when USA didnt enter wwii until they were attacked (a more extreme form of pacifism would mean not entering the war even after that), or like now when we should get rid of ISIS.

ok... that is disregarding everything that came before ISIS popped out.

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Certainly not every. Its not like things were so great before. Blaming all the problems in the region on our interventions is either lazy thinking or blind anti-americanism and anti-capitalism.

Well most of the current problems are because of west interventions be it military or any other covert ones...