UEFA CUP, final. Drogba - we realy wont this guy (15 Viewers)
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1. Being good in France means virtually nothing, since its a weak league and the defending is nowhere near the standard of Serie A.
2. He may have scored a few in the Uefa cup but as soon as he hit quality opposition he had a stinker. Surely not just co-incidence
3. Marseille were barely even in the tournament, anyone could be top scorer in the group stages, it doesn't mean anything unless you can cut it against the quality opposition that actually get anywhere. Just look at the world cup with Klose. I don't think he got a single goal after the groups, whereas the top class striker Ronaldo continued scoring and got the golden boot!
2. He may have scored a few in the Uefa cup but as soon as he hit quality opposition he had a stinker. Surely not just co-incidence
3. Marseille were barely even in the tournament, anyone could be top scorer in the group stages, it doesn't mean anything unless you can cut it against the quality opposition that actually get anywhere. Just look at the world cup with Klose. I don't think he got a single goal after the groups, whereas the top class striker Ronaldo continued scoring and got the golden boot!
I dont want Juve to sign Drogba, but thats no reason to take away what he has achieved this season.
1, french league is weeker than Serie-a, but they got two finalist in Uefa and CL so not that bad.
2 afaik he scored a "few" goal in international cups (11) 3 in cl, 8 in uefa. He scored against inter, or newcastle not the weakest of opponents.
3 he was a crap in the final, but he was injured and OM was a man down, so its unjust to compare him to Ronaldo, who had all the support against not so quality opponents in wc2002, or dont you remember brazils way to the final? they played against Turkey two times, Costa Rica, China, Belgium, England, Germany. The last two can be called quality opponents as much as Inter or Newcastle in the Uefa cup.
(2002 the year of Blatteritis)
1, french league is weeker than Serie-a, but they got two finalist in Uefa and CL so not that bad.
2 afaik he scored a "few" goal in international cups (11) 3 in cl, 8 in uefa. He scored against inter, or newcastle not the weakest of opponents.
3 he was a crap in the final, but he was injured and OM was a man down, so its unjust to compare him to Ronaldo, who had all the support against not so quality opponents in wc2002, or dont you remember brazils way to the final? they played against Turkey two times, Costa Rica, China, Belgium, England, Germany. The last two can be called quality opponents as much as Inter or Newcastle in the Uefa cup.
(2002 the year of Blatteritis)
1. yeah, its probably about the 5th or 6th best league in Europe. Not bad, but hardly great either. Its a commendable achievement getting two finalists, but really neither shuold have got there. Chelsea should have beat Monaco, especially the away leg, and well the uefa cup is of lesser importance altogether since the majority of top sides get through the cl group stages.
2. Have you seen newcastle play this year? They've been shite for the majority of the season and are lucky to have finished 5th in the EPl, out of form too against marseille they were hardly a massive challenge for any striker. Inter, do they even care anymore I don't know but I fully expected them to lose and they did.
3. Yeah OM were down to ten men but he had 45 mins while it was 11 aside and did nothing. he didn't look injured to me, since he made several horrid rash challenges, he didn't seem at all concerned it might make any 'injury' more serious. He was moving fine too. I'm not comparing him direct to Ronaldo, I think he's more like klose, a flash in the pan, good against the weaker teams etc.
2. Have you seen newcastle play this year? They've been shite for the majority of the season and are lucky to have finished 5th in the EPl, out of form too against marseille they were hardly a massive challenge for any striker. Inter, do they even care anymore I don't know but I fully expected them to lose and they did.
3. Yeah OM were down to ten men but he had 45 mins while it was 11 aside and did nothing. he didn't look injured to me, since he made several horrid rash challenges, he didn't seem at all concerned it might make any 'injury' more serious. He was moving fine too. I'm not comparing him direct to Ronaldo, I think he's more like klose, a flash in the pan, good against the weaker teams etc.
I highly DISagree with that. I think that the EPL deserves to be in the forth spot; the league might be exciting, but the teams in England are miles behind the top teams in the other big leagues, including France. Just because about half the French National team plays in England, doesn't mean it is the best league. Far from it actually. The fact that only one EPL team has played in the C.L. Final in the past 17 years shows that the teams in England are behind those of Italy, Spain, France, and maybe even Germany. And the facts don't lie.
I find it rather disturbing that everyone in the U.S. thinks that the EPL is by far the best league in the world. That shows a lack of soccer knowledge to me.
I find it rather disturbing that everyone in the U.S. thinks that the EPL is by far the best league in the world. That shows a lack of soccer knowledge to me.
So you're telling me Arsenal and Manchester Utd are miles behind the likes of Lyon, Monaco and PSG?!! And yes, Jacques Santini picked from the EPL.....they excelled in the EPL, and if it was such a shitty league as you claim, then anyone can excel there and he wouldn't have picked half his squad from there. A shitty league refers to one where the teams are weak except for 2 or 3, which is far from the case in the EPL. Just take a look back at all the upsets that happened this season. Being able to make the CL final or not is not that critical in judging a league as far as I'm concerned. Just because Monaco beat Chelsea and Marseille beat Newcastle, don't tell me the French league is better. Where were the French teams before this year?!
And for the records, I'm neither American nor do I lack any knowledge of soccer. You have no right to judge me setting your opinion as a standard.
And for the records, I'm neither American nor do I lack any knowledge of soccer. You have no right to judge me setting your opinion as a standard.
Bullshit, upsets don't say anything about the quality of a team or a league. A league is open and competitive when the title can go to any one of say, 4 or 5 teams at least. Up until last season, the EPL was only between Man U and Arsenal, while in Italy for example, the title has been fought over between Lazio, Roma, Inter, Milan and Juventus in recent years.
You're right, just because Monaco beat Chelsea and Marseille beat Liverpool and Newcastle, doesn't mean that the French League is better. But when such a trend occurs over the span of say, 17 seasons, one can't deny that it reflects to a certain degree the quality of the league.
You're right, just because Monaco beat Chelsea and Marseille beat Liverpool and Newcastle, doesn't mean that the French League is better. But when such a trend occurs over the span of say, 17 seasons, one can't deny that it reflects to a certain degree the quality of the league.
No, upsets don't say anything about the strength of the league, but it just goes to show you that any team can beat the other and no game is completely predictable. It's just that 3 or 4 of those can go all the way and accumulate enough points over the entire season to win the league.
A league in which there is no competition is a shitty league by my standards. You don't have to agree........but you won't change my opinion either.
As for the European competitions, weird trends can occur. Look at Mateja Kezman and tell me if he isn't one of the best, if not the best goalscorer in the Eredivisie. He can't score a goal in Europe to save his life, but when you look at VDV and Zlatan they've got a better record.......yet they play in the same league, no? I'd say a league is more of a judge, since European competitions go down to sometimes a single game.........if you have an off day, you're out.
Also, let's look at the English teams vs. Italian and Spanish. Last year, Manchester Utd was very close to qualifying and meeting us on the expense of Real Madrid (granted Man Utd of this season is by no means comparable). Also, look at how Inter was demolished by Arsenal. Those are the only two games I can remember, honestly. I'm not singling them out to serve my argument.
I'm looking at this and last season only btw since this is when I had FSW.........I had no access to any football for about 5 years before that, since I arrived here. Judging by what I've seen, the EPL is the best and the one I like to watch along with the Spanish, over any other league.
A league in which there is no competition is a shitty league by my standards. You don't have to agree........but you won't change my opinion either.
As for the European competitions, weird trends can occur. Look at Mateja Kezman and tell me if he isn't one of the best, if not the best goalscorer in the Eredivisie. He can't score a goal in Europe to save his life, but when you look at VDV and Zlatan they've got a better record.......yet they play in the same league, no? I'd say a league is more of a judge, since European competitions go down to sometimes a single game.........if you have an off day, you're out.
Also, let's look at the English teams vs. Italian and Spanish. Last year, Manchester Utd was very close to qualifying and meeting us on the expense of Real Madrid (granted Man Utd of this season is by no means comparable). Also, look at how Inter was demolished by Arsenal. Those are the only two games I can remember, honestly. I'm not singling them out to serve my argument.
I'm looking at this and last season only btw since this is when I had FSW.........I had no access to any football for about 5 years before that, since I arrived here. Judging by what I've seen, the EPL is the best and the one I like to watch along with the Spanish, over any other league.
See, that's the difference. English teams come very close to qualifying. Italian and Spanish teams qualify
Okay, the first game that comes to mind is the reverse fixture, Inter 3-0 Arsenal. You can't talk about two matches, one of which involved an English team almost made it to the semifinals, and another match in which an English team beat the laughingstock of Italian football, but only having been beaten by that same team 3-0.
Hey, I like to watch the English league too. It's open, pacy and physical. That doesn't mean the teams are strong though, especially compared to European competition.
That would be a valid thing to say if I had done the same, but I didn't take any timespan, I took the last few years including this one. We are talking about the present-day leagues, right?
Now let's take a look at the EPL of the past decade or so. In the past 12 years, England's top division has been won by Man Utd 8 times, and Arsenal 3 times.
Okay, the first game that comes to mind is the reverse fixture, Inter 3-0 Arsenal. You can't talk about two matches, one of which involved an English team almost made it to the semifinals, and another match in which an English team beat the laughingstock of Italian football, but only having been beaten by that same team 3-0.
Hey, I like to watch the English league too. It's open, pacy and physical. That doesn't mean the teams are strong though, especially compared to European competition.
That would be a valid thing to say if I had done the same, but I didn't take any timespan, I took the last few years including this one. We are talking about the present-day leagues, right?
Now let's take a look at the EPL of the past decade or so. In the past 12 years, England's top division has been won by Man Utd 8 times, and Arsenal 3 times.
Well, if we're talking about the present-day leagues, no history should be involved, no?
Anyway......regarding your past 12 yrs comment about the EPL, that doesn't really matter. I still think any English team is more than capable of taking on any other European team of comparable strength (in terms of league ranking). The style of play and quality of players suggests that. Having 1 or 2 teams dominating the pole position shows that some teams are inconsistent and those two aren't. It does not say Arsenal is weaker than Valencia.
Does that not imply a competitive league and not a shitty one?
Anyway......here's my final note. I think I see what you guys are getting at in the sense that Blackburn Rovers and Leeds Utd cannot be counted upon to do wonders on the international stage. But, out of all the European leagues, I can single out about 3 to 4 teams that will definitely monopolise the respective championships for the few years to come.
Spain: Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Deportivo La Coruna
France: Monaco, Lyon, PSG, Marseille (and I'm being really generous with the last 2
)
Italy: Juventus, Lazio, Roma, Milan (and don't you mention Inter)
that can be compared to
England: Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool
Anyway......regarding your past 12 yrs comment about the EPL, that doesn't really matter. I still think any English team is more than capable of taking on any other European team of comparable strength (in terms of league ranking). The style of play and quality of players suggests that. Having 1 or 2 teams dominating the pole position shows that some teams are inconsistent and those two aren't. It does not say Arsenal is weaker than Valencia.
Does that not imply a competitive league and not a shitty one?
Anyway......here's my final note. I think I see what you guys are getting at in the sense that Blackburn Rovers and Leeds Utd cannot be counted upon to do wonders on the international stage. But, out of all the European leagues, I can single out about 3 to 4 teams that will definitely monopolise the respective championships for the few years to come.
Spain: Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Deportivo La Coruna
France: Monaco, Lyon, PSG, Marseille (and I'm being really generous with the last 2
)Italy: Juventus, Lazio, Roma, Milan (and don't you mention Inter)
that can be compared to
England: Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool
5 years ago isn't history as far as I'm concerned. By the way you said "I can choose a span in English football history", it sounded like you were gonna start bringing up the days when Huddersfield and Burnley were winning it.
A competitive league doesn't mean that the teams are strong relative to other leagues.
Anyway, this discussion has happened too many times and it's getting stale, so let's leave it there. Unless of course you have something groundbreaking to add
A competitive league doesn't mean that the teams are strong relative to other leagues.
Anyway, this discussion has happened too many times and it's getting stale, so let's leave it there. Unless of course you have something groundbreaking to add