Two lovely news I just read on msn (1 Viewer)

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
#1
1- Jakarta crowds roar in support of Islamic state

JAKARTA, Indonesia - Nearly 90,000 followers of a hard-line Muslim group packed a stadium in the Indonesian capital Sunday, calling for the creation of an Islamic state and thunderously chanting "Allah is great!"

Hizbut Tahrir, a Sunni organization with an estimated million members, is banned in some Asian and Arab countries, but drew supporters from Europe, Africa and the Middle East to Indonesia for a meeting of the group that is held every two years.

Speeches called for the return of the caliphate, or Islamic statehood, across the Muslim world. The crowd, divided into sections for women and men, roared in support.

"We need to carry this message from every corner from the east to west, so that on judgment day we can be proud," said Salim Frederick of Hizbut Tahrir's English branch.

The freedom of expression that Muslims enjoy in Indonesia is a luxury compared to most other countries, said Hassan Ko Nakata of the Japanese Muslim Association.

High school teacher Erni Tri, 40, said she drove two hours with her husband and three children to attend the prayers, music and speeches in Jakarta.

Hizbut Tahrir "is firm and uncompromising toward un-Islamic cultures," she said. "It is driven by love for Allah and has no hidden agenda to get votes or power."

The group, though radical, does not support violence to obtain its objective.

Speakers from England and Australia, Imran Waheed and Sheikh Ismail al Wahwah, were deported upon arrival in Indonesia, a spokesman said. It was not immediately clear why they were not allowed to attend.

"Those responsible for this are being paranoid," Ismail Yusanto told reporters. "This has hurt our right of freedom of expression."

Though Hizbut Tahrir's rallies are usually peaceful, the U.S. Embassy last week cautioned its citizens against going near the gathering, noting that some recent demonstrations in Indonesia — the world's most populous Muslim nation — have turned violent.










2- Church learns vet was gay, cancels memorial

ARLINGTON, Texas - A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

“It’s a slap in the face. It’s like, ’Oh, we’re sorry he died, but he’s gay so we can’t help you,”’ she said Friday.

Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there. Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.

The church’s pastor, the Rev. Gary Simons, said no one knew Sinclair, who was not a church member, was gay until the day before the Thursday service, when staff members putting together his video tribute saw pictures of men “engaging in clear affection, kissing and embracing.”

‘It’s not that we didn’t love the family’
Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there.

“We did decline to host the service — not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle,” Simons told The Associated Press. “Had we known it on the day they first spoke about it — yes, we would have declined then. It’s not that we didn’t love the family.”

Simons said the decision had nothing to do with the obituary. He said the church offered to pay for another site for the service, made the video and provided food for more than 100 relatives and friends.

“Even though we could not condone that lifestyle, we went above and beyond for the family through many acts of love and kindness,” Simons said.

Wright called the church’s claim about the pictures “a bold-faced lie.” She said she provided numerous family pictures of Sinclair, including some with his partner, but said none showed men kissing or hugging.

The 5,000-member High Point Church was founded in 2000 by Simons and his wife, April, whose brother is Joel Osteen, well-known pastor of the 38,000-member Lakewood Church in Houston. Now High Point meets in a 432,000-square-foot facility in Arlington, near Dallas.

Wright said relatives declined the church’s offer to hold the service at a community center because they felt it was an inappropriate venue. It ultimately was held at a funeral home, but the cancellation still lingered in some minds, she said.





Enjoy it folks :cool:
 

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swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,784
#2
#1 Yeah. One more dumbass who wants to see the rule of the physical world driven by interests from another dimension. One George W Bush was enough for this planet...

#2 :disagree: Dammit, when are people going to read their own friggin' bible before doing this crazy sh*t. "Simons said the church believes homosexuality is a sin, and it would have appeared to endorse that lifestyle if the service had been held there" -- so apparently no one with any sin would be allowed services there. Cast that first stone, all ye Texas muthaf&#$s...
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
#3
The problem with homosexuality for the Church could be that it's a voluntary and repeated sin, swag.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,784
#5
The problem with homosexuality for the Church could be that it's a voluntary and repeated sin, swag.
Unlike, say, the recidivism of alcoholism, cheating on spouses, child molestation, and white collar crime. :confused2
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,784
#8
I'm not condoning it, but the viewpoint is understandable.
I don't see at as understandable at all, really. I mean, all sins are supposedly voluntary except for "the original sin" according to church doctrines. And as far as repeated sinning goes, that comes with the territory. You wouldn't see repeat offenders of other sins (since they DO exist) excluded from the service list.

So I see it as hypocrisy. There is no "loving the sinner, hating the sin" at all here. It's imposing a strata of acceptable and non-acceptable sinning.
 
Apr 12, 2004
77,165
#9
I don't see at as understandable at all, really. I mean, all sins are supposedly voluntary except for "the original sin" according to church doctrines. And as far as repeated sinning goes, that comes with the territory. You wouldn't see repeat offenders of other sins (since they DO exist) excluded from the service list.

So I see it as hypocrisy. There is no "loving the sinner, hating the sin" at all here. It's imposing a strata of acceptable and non-acceptable sinning.
:clap:
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
#10
I don't see at as understandable at all, really. I mean, all sins are supposedly voluntary except for "the original sin" according to church doctrines. And as far as repeated sinning goes, that comes with the territory. You wouldn't see repeat offenders of other sins (since they DO exist) excluded from the service list.

So I see it as hypocrisy. There is no "loving the sinner, hating the sin" at all here. It's imposing a strata of acceptable and non-acceptable sinning.
Look, they obviously would have to do the same for every other voluntary repeated sin. I'm only giving their point of view here. I'm not saying they're right.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,784
#11
Look, they obviously would have to do the same for every other voluntary repeated sin. I'm only giving their point of view here. I'm not saying they're right.
I never took you for someone who would side with their position. But you do seem to follow their logic, which I don't. At least under the pretenses they put forward.

There are degrees to this. Perhaps one level lower in the strata of sin from homosexual is someone who supports abortion, for example. Then another level is polygamist. Then another...

It's this stratification that I think this church is actively doing here, but as a policy they blissfully seem clueless that they are actively doing that.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,346
#12
I never took you for someone who would side with their position. But you do seem to follow their logic, which I don't. At least under the pretenses they put forward.

There are degrees to this. Perhaps one level lower in the strata of sin from homosexual is someone who supports abortion, for example. Then another level is polygamist. Then another...

It's this stratification that I think this church is actively doing here, but as a policy they blissfully seem clueless that they are actively doing that.
I follow it, because I try to understand it. That doesn't mean I don't fundamentally oppose it.

Stratification is exactly what they are doing IMO. They consider homosexuality an intolerable sin because homosexuals time and time again insult god. If you support abortion, you also support it all the time, but that would count as one sin. Having sex with the same sex 400 times, well.. you get the picture.

I don't agree with that viewpoint though and it is indeed hypocritical.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,784
#13
I follow it, because I try to understand it. That doesn't mean I don't fundamentally oppose it.

Stratification is exactly what they are doing IMO. They consider homosexuality an intolerable sin because homosexuals time and time again insult god. If you support abortion, you also support it all the time, but that would count as one sin. Having sex with the same sex 400 times, well.. you get the picture.

I don't agree with that viewpoint though and it is indeed hypocritical.
I think we're saying the same things. But you can be a gay virgin as far as I am concerned. So I just don't understand how the church can dial in and choose a specific threshold of when someone should or should not be allowed to have services for the sins they've made in their lives. That is the arbitrary part to me.
 

Rami

The Linuxologist
Dec 24, 2004
8,065
#15
#1 Yeah. One more dumbass who wants to see the rule of the physical world driven by interests from another dimension. One George W Bush was enough for this planet...
Actually Greg, most Muslims are calling for the return of the Calphite, including me. One country that truly applies Islamic Shari'a, we had such caliphites throughout history but sporadically and for short periods. Andalusia and the times of Omar Ibn Abdulaziz (where throughout the Islamic empire there were none to accept charity) come to mind. Other eras were filled with injustices to different degrees. Having a true Islamic empire to the book is very hard to achieve and I am doubtful that this could be achieved currently.

Of course Taliban's experiment comes to mind here, and I am def not talking about something like that. If the stories about the Taliban are real (and I believe they are), then I don't want to see that.
 

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
#16
Actually Greg, most Muslims are calling for the return of the Calphite, including me. One country that truly applies Islamic Shari'a, we had such caliphites throughout history but sporadically and for short periods. Andalusia and the times of Omar Ibn Abdulaziz (where throughout the Islamic empire there were none to accept charity) come to mind. Other eras were filled with injustices to different degrees. Having a true Islamic empire to the book is very hard to achieve and I am doubtful that this could be achieved currently.

Of course Taliban's experiment comes to mind here, and I am def not talking about something like that. If the stories about the Taliban are real (and I believe they are), then I don't want to see that.
There already is a caliphate, it's just that people refuse to accept it, instead they declare them non-Muslim.
 
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Snoop

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #20
    Actually Greg, most Muslims are calling for the return of the Calphite, including me. One country that truly applies Islamic Shari'a, we had such caliphites throughout history but sporadically and for short periods. Andalusia and the times of Omar Ibn Abdulaziz (where throughout the Islamic empire there were none to accept charity) come to mind. Other eras were filled with injustices to different degrees. Having a true Islamic empire to the book is very hard to achieve and I am doubtful that this could be achieved currently.

    Of course Taliban's experiment comes to mind here, and I am def not talking about something like that. If the stories about the Taliban are real (and I believe they are), then I don't want to see that.
    I know what are you wishing, but this is very dangerous. not because it is Islam, but because we need to keep religion as far as away from politics. It is very easy to abuse people with religion, Imagine an idiot comes and they announce him a caliphate, and everyone believe him in all blindness. You know how he can be dangerous and no one to criticize them, since he is a Caliphate in the end, religious (maybe not really that) position you know?

    The world has changed, lots of people hate each others because of religion. politicians should be neutral, we don't need George Bush and Usamas, we need to go to the next level. and FFS people should start realizing that religion is a life style, and that's a personal choice, once a religion is gone beyond personal (out of the relation between a God and a human) then it is nothing different than that dirty game called politics..
     

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