Tiago Mendes (27 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

Also i am sure that you know that CR never wanted him at first place, as he knew what will happen, and that is why said "we were (he was) thrown into buying Tiago as Lpool was asking too much for Sissoko"

Exactly, and you denied that at first until I corrected you.

Now, Tiago knew that he wasn't really wanted and it appears that Ranieri didn't want to field him. Don't you think that would have any bearing on how well a player performs? Or am I just whistling dixie out of my arse?

 

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[Amaurisimo]

You are right about first one, and you can imagine how much he was frustrated when he got Tiago instead of someone else.
Also Gigli said that Blanc and Secco will decide who is best for CR, poulsen, alsonso, stankovic..
Who are they to make this decision? Should not be the other way round?

Either way, dont you think Tiago had enough of chances, and miss them all?

Of course it would affect his mentality initial CR speech, but dont you remember what Tiago was saying in Portugese papers as well??

I , as i said many times would LOVE to work it out for Tiago , for us , but every time he had a chance he screw it..So what else can we do??

 

[Cronios]

i've been admitting it since day 1. he is sorry and its not ranieri's fault that he cannot even complete a successful out pass
you can't whole-heartedly blame ranieri for tiago's lack of productivity and poor performances this past season. there are many players around the world that are not used to their best potential or capabilities but they do still perform and do not faulter on basic fundamentals as tiago did in his showings this season.

That was not the only reason i mentioned him, but it is a very important one,
CR ordered him to defend as well and Tiago cant deliver that,
if he cant our team cant cope, our tactical choices leave little space for Tiago, he would easily fit in a more offensive team!
He tried to adapt, but he is simply not strong enough to do so!
The couch ought to use his tools efficiently and use their strong points, not force them to expose their weak points and adapt into a new position they were not meant to play!

What Competition??

This position was really stacked up comparing with other positions in our team.
We had Almiron, someone who was very fit, he was very very impressive at pre-season games, actually the most impressive of all! He was bound to make it first in our starting eleven and marginalize Tiago at the beginning of the season, until he gets fully fit!
We had Zanetti, who was already a part of our midfield and he is very efficient.
His quiet work was very appreciated!
We had Nocerino, who was very physical and at the beginning of the season he was pretty impressive and he was able to deliver what Almiron couldnt.
Our tactical choice to use 2 DMs to cover up for our weak defense, forced is way in and his strength helped him dominate the midfield and get the job done, despite being less helpful than Tiago at the building up of our play, CR preferred a solid defensive wise player, even as a winger, when Camo was absent!!!
That shows a lot of our coaches priorities!
And when Nocerino started faulting and Tiago started to become impressive at training , we made the biggest investment to bring in Sissoko, another perfectly fit player and most a DM to fit our needs, tactically in the midfield.
Other places, LB for ex had absolutely no other back ups.
Molinaro for ex could play 10 times worse than Tiago and still get the starter spot next game and one more time, one more chance to prove himself and make smth useful! Tiago hadnt the same chances, he was benched after he failed his chance! There is difference here, i wonder how you cant see it!!
And it also affects the morality of the player, to know that there is competition, to know that there is a player better than him ready to grab your position, to know that your coach does not trust you and he will punish you if you fail to deliver as he wishes, even if he asks you to deliver in a role you know, you cant!
This is a factor worth mentioned!!
It seems that Tiago is largely affected by that, he is a quiet player and a quiet man, this explains why he is good training and when the pressure gets to him, he cant deliver. The conditions in our team do not favor him.

It was a mistake to bring him form the first place, we should save the money and buy one less, but better player, as i said right after we signed both Tiago and Almiron, we took a gamble there, there was no guarantees that these players would adapt in a strong team like Juve,\but since we insisted on bringing them, we should provide them with better conditions, to increase their chances to adapt and our chances to win the gamble. We failed to do that and it seems our plans were different anyway, out tactical plans were different and didnt include them anyway. There were massive mistakes from our board there, that minimized our chances, said that one year ago...

 

[Marc]

Jeez.... try to summarize your posts a bit, please.

 

[cyril]

That was not the only reason i mentioned him, but it is a very important one,
CR ordered him to defend as well and Tiago cant deliver that,
if he cant our team cant cope, our tactical choices leave little space for Tiago, he would easily fit in a more offensive team!
He tried to adapt, but he is simply not strong enough to do so!
The couch ought to use his tools efficiently and use their strong points, not force them to expose their weak points and adapt into a new position they were not meant to play!


This position was really stacked up comparing with other positions in our team.
We had Almiron, someone who was very fit, he was very very impressive at pre-season games, actually the most impressive of all! He was bound to make it first in our starting eleven and marginalize Tiago at the beginning of the season, until he gets fully fit!
We had Zanetti, who was already a part of our midfield and he is very efficient.
His quiet work was very appreciated!
We had Nocerino, who was very physical and at the beginning of the season he was pretty impressive and he was able to deliver what Almiron couldnt.
Our tactical choice to use 2 DMs to cover up for our weak defense, forced is way in and his strength helped him dominate the midfield and get the job done, despite being less helpful than Tiago at the building up of our play, CR preferred a solid defensive wise player, even as a winger, when Camo was absent!!!
That shows a lot of our coaches priorities!
And when Nocerino started faulting and Tiago started to become impressive at training , we made the biggest investment to bring in Sissoko, another perfectly fit player and most a DM to fit our needs, tactically in the midfield.
Other places, LB for ex had absolutely no other back ups.
Molinaro for ex could play 10 times worse than Tiago and still get the starter spot next game and one more time, one more chance to prove himself and make smth useful! Tiago hadnt the same chances, he was benched after he failed his chance! There is difference here, i wonder how you cant see it!!
And it also affects the morality of the player, to know that there is competition, to know that there is a player better than him ready to grab your position, to know that your coach does not trust you and he will punish you if you fail to deliver as he wishes, even if he asks you to deliver in a role you know, you cant!
This is a factor worth mentioned!!
It seems that Tiago is largely affected by that, he is a quiet player and a quiet man, this explains why he is good training and when the pressure gets to him, he cant deliver. The conditions in our team do not favor him.

It was a mistake to bring him form the first place, we should save the money and buy one less, but better player, as i said right after we signed both Tiago and Almiron, we took a gamble there, there was no guarantees that these players would adapt in a strong team like Juve,\but since we insisted on bringing them, we should provide them with better conditions, to increase their chances to adapt and our chances to win the gamble. We failed to do that and it seems our plans were different anyway, out tactical plans were different and didnt include them anyway. There were massive mistakes from our board there, that minimized our chances, said that one year ago...

+ rep. You nailed down everything.


Anyways I really think that tiago could shine with us. Selling him is not an option if we dont buy alonso.

 

[v1rtu4l]

That was not the only reason i mentioned him, but it is a very important one,
CR ordered him to defend as well and Tiago cant deliver that,
if he cant our team cant cope, our tactical choices leave little space for Tiago, he would easily fit in a more offensive team!
He tried to adapt, but he is simply not strong enough to do so!

i remember a game where tiago did defend superbly doing two or three great tackles in our own box preventing a goal opportunity for the opponents ...

so i am really clueless why he does suck so much, but it does seem more likely he is not able to deliver through balls and does not have what it takes to go past a defender

 

[- vOnAm -]

nor did i claim that he was! that was not his job at lyon or chelsea either. his job was to get the ball from the defence & give it to the creative players like juninho and lampard. we need sum1 cose to him for him to give the ball to! I no liege 1 is no serie A but you don't but strawberries to make an apple pie do u?! so y we expecting so much from sum1 who was not brought in to do that job?

he did what he was good, at keepin posession hence his high pass completeion %, but because almiron was such a shite player tiago looked bad as well. & when lackin a more creative player wit him it's obvious he's look at bit lost cuz he's not a leader, he's a role player!

My point was, if we are bringing in a more creative playmaking player, then we need another to handle the defensive duties, not only tackling but positioning wise. We brought Tiago to be a complete midfielder who can launch attack. He is somewhat like Xabi Alonso, only of lower class (what he has shown so far).

Hence there is no way that Tiago would take a position which Sissoko and Zanetti would do much better in. That leads us to putting him in the more creative role of the midfield.

That is why I disagree with you when you say put a creative playmaker beside Tiago. If you talk about getting the ball out of defense and supplying it to the playmaker, you don't need sublime passing skillls, Zanetti would suffice, and Sissoko to some extent could too.

Teams would run all over us if we play Tiago + Playmaker.

 

[DiDoz]

That was not the only reason i mentioned him, but it is a very important one,
CR ordered him to defend as well and Tiago cant deliver that,
if he cant our team cant cope, our tactical choices leave little space for Tiago, he would easily fit in a more offensive team!
He tried to adapt, but he is simply not strong enough to do so!
The couch ought to use his tools efficiently and use their strong points, not force them to expose their weak points and adapt into a new position they were not meant to play!


This position was really stacked up comparing with other positions in our team.
We had Almiron, someone who was very fit, he was very very impressive at pre-season games, actually the most impressive of all! He was bound to make it first in our starting eleven and marginalize Tiago at the beginning of the season, until he gets fully fit!
We had Zanetti, who was already a part of our midfield and he is very efficient.
His quiet work was very appreciated!
We had Nocerino, who was very physical and at the beginning of the season he was pretty impressive and he was able to deliver what Almiron couldnt.
Our tactical choice to use 2 DMs to cover up for our weak defense, forced is way in and his strength helped him dominate the midfield and get the job done, despite being less helpful than Tiago at the building up of our play, CR preferred a solid defensive wise player, even as a winger, when Camo was absent!!!
That shows a lot of our coaches priorities!
And when Nocerino started faulting and Tiago started to become impressive at training , we made the biggest investment to bring in Sissoko, another perfectly fit player and most a DM to fit our needs, tactically in the midfield.
Other places, LB for ex had absolutely no other back ups.
Molinaro for ex could play 10 times worse than Tiago and still get the starter spot next game and one more time, one more chance to prove himself and make smth useful! Tiago hadnt the same chances, he was benched after he failed his chance! There is difference here, i wonder how you cant see it!!
And it also affects the morality of the player, to know that there is competition, to know that there is a player better than him ready to grab your position, to know that your coach does not trust you and he will punish you if you fail to deliver as he wishes, even if he asks you to deliver in a role you know, you cant!
This is a factor worth mentioned!!
It seems that Tiago is largely affected by that, he is a quiet player and a quiet man, this explains why he is good training and when the pressure gets to him, he cant deliver. The conditions in our team do not favor him.

It was a mistake to bring him form the first place, we should save the money and buy one less, but better player, as i said right after we signed both Tiago and Almiron, we took a gamble there, there was no guarantees that these players would adapt in a strong team like Juve,\but since we insisted on bringing them, we should provide them with better conditions, to increase their chances to adapt and our chances to win the gamble. We failed to do that and it seems our plans were different anyway, out tactical plans were different and didnt include them anyway. There were massive mistakes from our board there, that minimized our chances, said that one year ago...

It's amazing how can you reply to a single line post with all that

First of all, Tiago didnt compete with Zanetti or Sissoko, because both are DMs, while Tiago wasn't expected to be a destroyer

That leaves us with Almiron and Nocerino, Almiron impressed in the pre-seasons? well our pre-season sucked!! except kicking Roma's ass, it was a disaster, Molinaro also impressed in the pre-seasons, remember Newcastle goal??

Anyways Almiron sucked at the beginning of the season, Tiago didnt take the chance

Tiago had much more chances than Almiron, he only started to seem OK when he played beside Sissoko, because he did it all, leaving Tiago receiving balls from the closest player to pass it to the next closest one

 

[Cronios]

Tiago shouldnt compete with Sissoko and Zanetti for a place in our starting eleven, IF the coach and our managers actually had a clue of what is going on and what exactly do they want from our players.
But that was not the case, CR decided to use two DMs and that was not Tiago's fault,
Tiago is a CM, the only way he would fit in is to prove that a CM would be proved efficient enough to fit in and do the job of a DM,
or actually play as a DM!!
For this reason he was in a direct competition with the DMs and esp Nocerino!
Nocerino isnt a CM, he is a DM, so you can see the situation in our team!
And this is the reason Tiago had to compete with DMs for a starter place, that is unnatural and unfair but that was exactly the case! We had no room for a CM/CAM anymore

Almiron was brilliant at Empoli, he showed he can be a leader, a general in the midfeild, he had serie A experience, he was fully fit and he was very impressing at the pre-season games with us, when the decisions and our plans for the new season are made!
Almiron seemed to fit in with out team, he showed excellent vision, good cover and brilliant passing!!
He seemed to be exactly what we lacked in our midfield, the man who is going to lead us!
At that time Tiago wasnt fit to start, he had no proper training and regular matches for some months, no serie A exp, so it was expected to come in and aid somewhat slower, near mid-season!
The choice not to force him from the beginning was made there!
And Almiron was the reason!
When Almiron choked, Tiago wasnt ready, but Nocerino was, Noce was the main Zanetti partner and the reason Tiago had less chances to play.
The reason CR preferred Noce instead of Tiago, was mostly because Noce is a DM and Tiago is a CM and CR clearly favored the DM.
When Noce faded and Tiago regained his minimum fitness, we brought in Sissoko, another DM and in a great form a player younger, more expensive and more promising than the rest.
Point is, that Tiago never had a chance to become a starter and the main reason is because we tactically preferred DMs because of our weak defense,
we couldnt afford a CM tactically and that hardly is Tiago's fault, when he was brought in, our plans were other!
We had two CMs and two DMs and we supposed to rotate them, but we ended up using 2 DMs and that was not Tiago's fault only...

BTW i am not defending Tiago here, from the beginning i asked for a better player, but he takes much more blame than he should!

 

[DelpieroForLife]

I never thought I would be that desperate to keep Tiago.... I can't even imagine the Poulsen transfer.

 

[Amaurisimo]

IF the coach and our managers actually had a clue of what is going on and what exactly do they want from our players.
But that was not the case, CR decided to use two DMs and that was not Tiago's fault,

but we know why CR decided to play with 2 DM!?

cos of our weak defense.

 

[BIG DADDY!!!]

Anyways Almiron sucked at the beginning of the season, Tiago didnt take the chance

I think the game against Empoli in the Coppa Italia was the final nail in thier coffin!!

Both of them started with a chance to prove themselves and both were lazy and unmotivated for the game!!

I remember Ranieri being really upset after that defeat.

 

[BIG DADDY!!!]

Midfield misfit Tiago Mendes is being linked with German side Wolfsburg and is widely expected to leave after a miserable maiden season in Turin.

“Tiago is a big player and that’s why we signed him,” Ranieri maintained.

“I want to have an embarrassment of riches. If Tiago asks to stay, I will greet him with open arms.

“I am waiting for his decision and I have the greatest of respect for him.“

Channel 4

Bit harsh that.

 

[RAMI-N]

Midfield misfit Tiago Mendes is being linked with German side Wolfsburg and is widely expected to leave after a miserable maiden season in Turin.

“Tiago is a big player and that’s why we signed him,” Ranieri maintained.

“I want to have an embarrassment of riches. If Tiago asks to stay, I will greet him with open arms.

“ I am waiting for his decision and I have the greatest of respect for him.“

Channel 4

Bit harsh that.

 

[.zero]

welll i doubt CR is going to openly say "fuck tiago and his no-talent-underperforming-punk-bitch-made-ass"

 

[Lucky Luke]

last season we had 3 DMs (Sissoko-Zanetti-Nocerino) and 2 MCs( Tiago-Almiron).Ranieri instead of rotating them using one DM and one MC in his 4-4-2 formation he preffered 2 DMs due to the dact that our defence was awful.Thats why Tiago and Almiron look like flops nowadays....cause the were forced to change their style in order to take a chance actually to get some playing time...

 

[DelpieroForLife]

welll i doubt CR is going to openly say "fuck tiago and his no-talent-underperforming-punk-bitch-made-ass"

You believe he told him that privately?

 

[.zero]

You believe he told him that privately?

there's a remote chance that he may have behind closed doors

 

[Cronios]

I ve used this argument before, but i have to repeat it because there are too many posters and some ppl inevitably didnt see it:

We started the season's plans with a theoretically strong enough defense

the exp Zebina and Chiellini to our wings, players than can defend pretty well and secure our flanks, offering furthermore support to our midfielders too!
We had a nearly world class CB in Andrade! The fully fit and now exp Legro and the rising star Criscito.
Despite my worries that they were not enough, our board was rest assured
and they decided it is time to play some spectacular offensive football, comparing to the previous seasons. So they brought in two cheap and average CMs, with the hope that they dont have to invest much and one of them would be proved good enough to make the job done in Juve.
I would prefer one player, but certainly good enough, someone proved, who would cost hardly the sum we paid for both of them!
But we chose to risk and go on like that!
Zebina's+Andade's injury, Chiellini's forced swap to a CB and the forced abusive use of a totally incompetent player in the face of Molinaro as a starter,

Combined with Almiron's choke and lack of Camo's defensive work, created the demanding need of two DMs to compensate for our weakest flanks and defense, we ever presented as a team and solidify our team, through our strong/physical midfield!
Every team could easily rape our flanks and our defensive blunders, demanded and extra help and cover from our midfield.
That was a tactical choice and we had to make some sacrifices on our ability and resources to create upfront!
This tactical choice sealed Tiago's fate, among with the reasons, i initially mentioned. One of them being the fact, that he wasnt fit and ready to help from the beginning and reverse this situation.
Thats why he less responsibility from the rest.
I mostly blame our owners for not investing enough to bring reliable players,
then our board for taking so many risks with the available funds,
then our managers for all the step backs, faulty vision and faulty managerial decisions,
then our coach for not being able to handle our available tools properly
and being some biased against or pro some players.
And finally to Tiago for not taking his chances at the end of season, when all the favorable were in his side!

But things could be a lot easier for him, if he had a strong solid back line

Zebina Andrade Legro Chiellini
able to stand her ground avoiding all the blunders are current committed and give confidence to our midfield and to our coach to step forward and push ahead!
This way Almiron would choke soon or later, Noce would be proved to inefficient to waste all of our attacking chances and his use wouldnt be justified with our flanks and defense secured, so more chances would raise, for Tiago, to do his work, as a CM/CAM and play by his rules, using his best skills.
A few good passes here and there could be proved decisive to brake the deadlock and make the difference, that would boost his confidence and he would give his best, he would be more stable, CR would decide we can afford a CM
A CM would change the way out team plays, more control in our game, less desperate long balls, less frustration and a totally different turn of events.
Our wrong decisions, our tactical mistakes and some unfortunate incidents like
Camo's injury didnt helped our cause, our flanks turned even weaker,
CR got scared, he saw our team couldnt cope and decided to sacrifice our offensive tools and use 2 DMs.
And this determined Tiago fate, that was soooo predicable...

If our defenders were better that wouldnt happen,
if Tiago or Almiron was better, they would adapt and that wouldnt happen for other reasons.
Thats why i was so sad, when we confirmed those deals, it was a disaster waiting to happen. Not because Tiago is all that bad, but because of the conditions we created for us! Thats why i said last year we took the wrong decisions.
You can now blame one player for everything, but i just saw that coming
and i never had anything against Tiago personally.
Therefore i cannot stand this situation of a player taking all the blame for mistakes made beyond his reach, thats why i keep defending Tiago, despite the fact that i never really rated him.
I consider important to see through things and really find out what was the real reason for this failure. Hopefully we could be better prepared next time and we would avoid making the same mistakes again...

But unfortunately, our board did nothing to prevent the same mistakes to happen again, they learned nothing from their mistakes, we didnt invest our available sums to strengthen our weakest link, our defense,
we brought free players.
We didnt find a permanent solution to our creativity problems.
Instead of a quality AMF, we are bringing in one more mediocre DM (poulsen)
We had one of the best forward lines in Europe, one of the most prolific ones and wasted the great majority of our transfer budget to fine tune it, risking to unbalanced it...

I suffer watching our noob managers ruining the future of our team, crippling our chances, turn our dreams into nightmares.

I will def not use some poor player as scapegoats for the decisions, thats the easiest thing, but it is so unfair in my books and it adds nothing to our cause,
if constructive criticism helps somewhere, we better find the real problem and aim for it!

Almiron, Tiago, Amauri and Poulsen cannot make miracles
and even if they could, their position and the condition in our team does not allows them to do so.
We should not expect from them to deliver miracles,
we can hope for it as gamblers, but if they dont we shouldnt blame them,
we should blame the ones really responsible for this failure!

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Great post Cronios, I recommend anyone with a spare half hour to read it.