Thiago "The Fired Fraud" Motta (193 Viewers)

mOUTta or not?


  • Total voters
    67
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Bianconero_Aus

Beppe Marotta Is My God
May 26, 2009
80,919
As far as I'm concerned, this is not a valid excuse for the absolutely terrible 2nd half against Napoli but Motta is definitely allowed to bring it up.

We probably have the smallest squad of the entire league while we have to play more games than most other teams. And to make matters worse: we're stacked in certain positions. Resting defensive players is basically impossible, but at the same time every single attacking player (except the actual striker) can be substituted and there would still be 2 or 3 players stuck on the bench.
Just :giu: things.
 

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Akshen

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2010
10,608
As far as I'm concerned, this is not a valid excuse for the absolutely terrible 2nd half against Napoli but Motta is definitely allowed to bring it up.

We probably have the smallest squad of the entire league while we have to play more games than most other teams. And to make matters worse: we're stacked in certain positions. Resting defensive players is basically impossible, but at the same time every single attacking player (except the actual striker) can be substituted and there would still be 2 or 3 players stuck on the bench.
well considering we could also actually play with 4 attackers (striker, wingers and CAM) i dont think having as much attacking players as we have its a problem. Milik is always injured and Adzic shouldnt be even counted as a first team player imo.
in this case u have RKM, Vlaho, Mbangula, Yildiz, Gonzalez, Conceicao, Weah for 3 or 4 places (with attacking CAM) so 7 players. Is it really a problem? Its actually the first moment in the season when none of them is injured. I was against us going in for Sancho in the summer, because i thought it would be too much and look how it backfired.
Imo what we will see more in the next games is Koop moved to the CM spot in duo with Locatelli and attack consisting of:
RKM
Nico Yildiz Conceicao
especially since we will be playing some minor teams.

With the defence i agree completely - we lack any depth there. I also think when playing with 4 real attackers we will use a false 3 at the back, meaning, on paper it will look like its 4 man defence, but while attacking 3 players will be playing as CBs, so we will probably only use one real fullback in first team.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,877
well considering we could also actually play with 4 attackers (striker, wingers and CAM) i dont think having as much attacking players as we have its a problem. Milik is always injured and Adzic shouldnt be even counted as a first team player imo.
in this case u have RKM, Vlaho, Mbangula, Yildiz, Gonzalez, Conceicao, Weah for 3 or 4 places (with attacking CAM) so 7 players. Is it really a problem? Its actually the first moment in the season when none of them is injured. I was against us going in for Sancho in the summer, because i thought it would be too much and look how it backfired.
Imo what we will see more in the next games is Koop moved to the CM spot in duo with Locatelli and attack consisting of:
RKM
Nico Yildiz Conceicao
especially since we will be playing some minor teams.

With the defence i agree completely - we lack any depth there. I also think when playing with 4 real attackers we will use a false 3 at the back, meaning, on paper it will look like its 4 man defence, but while attacking 3 players will be playing as CBs, so we will probably only use one real fullback in first team.
In the 4-2-3-1 formation Motta is apparently hell-bent on playing, those 3 players behind the striker could consist of Koopmeiners, Yildiz, Conceicao, Gonzalez, Mbangula, Weah, McKennie, Kolo Muani (?), Adzic (?) and even Cambiaso played there earlier in the season.

Considering the gaping holes we have elsewhere in the squad, I'd say that's a problem.
 

juve123

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
16,638
Thiago Motta has a win percentage of 38.71% with Juventus in Serie A. Only two permanent Bianconeri coaches have worse records: Alberto Zaccheroni with 38.10% and Sandro Puppo with 24.19%.
 

Mokku

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2019
2,709
Formation is dynamic and it's possible to even have defensive 4-3-3 lineups. My problem is that Motta is almost gluing players into areas and expecting one of the attackers to just do something in the moment.

Since Bremer got injured, Locatelli is forced to stay back and sweep up and he does okay, but in our box he makes mistakes and that's a couple of penalties given away now. Thuram or McKennie would do much better there. McKennie is no defender so he often leaves us in a back 3 while he goes up. On the back foot, it forces Locatelli to come across and try and intercept since Koopmeiners is higher up and just wasting possession.

Clearly we need the extra cover so maybe go 3-4-3 and use actual wingbacks. That ensures we have 5 at them back when defending and 2 in the centre protecting the centre backs. The front 3 could be a combination of speed, strength, width, or directness. Play an extra defender so we get some clean sheets.

Regardless, play them in their best positions. Read the match and even when pegged back, keep players on who are a threat, ie. Mbangula is great as an outlet. I bet McKennie and Thuram in the middle would be our best pair because they do the basics well and always work hard.
 

TheLaz

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
5,530
We all expected Juventus to compete until the end. Sadly this won't happen this year. But we did not expect to win the Serie A. So if Motta can make top 4 and progress in CL I think it's acceptable. I would keep him and see how much progress we've made come April and May
 

BayernFan

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2016
7,089
Why have your standards dropped of so massively? You won 9 league titles in a row and is by far the most dominant club in Italy.

I get that you can’t win the title every year, even Bayern can’t do that in Germany. But going from serial winners domestically to being “happy” as long as you make the top4, how did it come to this?

Your decline looks like Milan and Inter in the most part of last decade.

I feel like our standards (Bayern’s) are also slowly slipping, but what happened to Juventus looks like a meltdown.
 

juve123

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
16,638
Why have your standards dropped of so massively? You won 9 league titles in a row and is by far the most dominant club in Italy.

I get that you can’t win the title every year, even Bayern can’t do that in Germany. But going from serial winners domestically to being “happy” as long as you make the top4, how did it come to this?

Your decline looks like Milan and Inter in the most part of last decade.

I feel like our standards (Bayern’s) are also slowly slipping, but what happened to Juventus looks like a meltdown.
Our financial position is not as good as Bayern plus there is a witchhunt against Juve in Italy.
 

Akshen

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2010
10,608
Why have your standards dropped of so massively? You won 9 league titles in a row and is by far the most dominant club in Italy.

I get that you can’t win the title every year, even Bayern can’t do that in Germany. But going from serial winners domestically to being “happy” as long as you make the top4, how did it come to this?

Your decline looks like Milan and Inter in the most part of last decade.

I feel like our standards (Bayern’s) are also slowly slipping, but what happened to Juventus looks like a meltdown.
well, u (Bayern) still have a biggest budget domestically and biggest by far (760m), while we really dont have that - both Milan and Inter have surpassed Juve budget wise last year.
Borussia (513m) is far behind Bayern when it comes to budget, not even worth saying about other German clubs.
In the long term, lets not fool ourselves - its mostly about money in football.
Juve probably will be back to be the wealthiest football club in Italy soon, if the managment doesnt fuck it up even more, but it will take time and u need CL for this.

- - - Updated - - -

btw:



that would be soo stupid, this guy can hadle pressure or criticism
 

MrMonkey

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2017
4,267
We all expected Juventus to compete until the end. Sadly this won't happen this year. But we did not expect to win the Serie A. So if Motta can make top 4 and progress in CL I think it's acceptable. I would keep him and see how much progress we've made come April and May
Agree! management will not say let's pay for the ZZ tier type manager and lesser knowns another flipping the coin. Need to play it out his season and see if progress is made? CL qualification must have!

If no progress then I believe a package deal that includes Giuntoli must go. Though back to Motta when you think of managers in any sport, forgetting formations, tactics, etc etc. Isn't a big responsibility getting players to perform at/above expectations? So presently Motta gets a below average grade from me.
 

juve123

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
16,638
John Elkann fully supports the choice to not sack Thiago Motta, even if Juventus fail to not make the champions league.Sustainability is more important than sporting results.There is consensus that Motta is the right person to take Juve project forward.(@FabDellaValle)
 

Akshen

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2010
10,608
Agree! management will not say let's pay for the ZZ tier type manager and lesser knowns another flipping the coin. Need to play it out his season and see if progress is made? CL qualification must have!

If no progress then I believe a package deal that includes Giuntoli must go. Though back to Motta when you think of managers in any sport, forgetting formations, tactics, etc etc. Isn't a big responsibility getting players to perform at/above expectations? So presently Motta gets a below average grade from me.
dont forget that Marotta also did a mistake in his first coach appointment, I dont think changing all the backbone after failure would be a good idea.
 

MrMonkey

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2017
4,267
dont forget that Marotta also did a mistake in his first coach appointment, I dont think changing all the backbone after failure would be a good idea.
Okay so we give Giuntoli one more chance at picking another manager. Sounds good thinking by my theory it's like flipping a coin picking a replacement for Giuntoli too.
 

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