The Result, or Entertainment? (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter K10
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When Juve is playing it's the result that matters, because Juve is entertaining as it is, even if they play dull or whatever. They are just simply never boring. Love is blind!
As for other games, I look for entertainment, unless there's some other italian club playing against an european club, then I'm after the result as well
As for other games, I look for entertainment, unless there's some other italian club playing against an european club, then I'm after the result as well
I think that Milan is improving, they certainly have enough of great players for entertainment. Once they get into shape they'll be great to watch IMO. Their neighbours are a lost case though IMO. The only sparkle is Recoba, but with the rest of the team being idealess and with Cuper in charge we'll be bored yet another year.
IMO Juve has a lot of potencial to entertain. They showed bits of it on Wednesday and if they keep on going that way we'll soon be glued on the TV
The main actors will be DP, Nedved, Camoranesi (I'm afraid the guy is doing everything to bench Zamb ), Davids and Thuram.
win + entertainment?
IMO Juve has a lot of potencial to entertain. They showed bits of it on Wednesday and if they keep on going that way we'll soon be glued on the TV
The main actors will be DP, Nedved, Camoranesi (I'm afraid the guy is doing everything to bench Zamb ), Davids and Thuram.
++ [ originally posted by DaJuve ] ++
and contradicts your views ....
and contradicts your views ....
He is a young coach and could still develop into something unexpected:undecide:.
But most important: the fans are starting to demand entertainment again. This is a very good sign and if it can be turned into reality then surely italys way back into the higher echelons of european football together with the primera liga will be a lot shorter.
As to Juventus lacking personnel to entertain; how do you account for chievo being entertaining, they certainly don't have any personnel to rave about. Their players are very restricted to certain roles and are not even nearly as versatile as our starters. I don't believe that the best players are always connected to what level of entertainment a team has, If that is what you mean.
Comparing Inter Milan and Chievo player for player Inter exceed chievo by far, yet they play a numbing brand of footbal whilst Chievo are quite entertaining. Obviously the coach has something to do with this.
Lippi could play an exciting brand of football wihout a world class playmaker, there are ways to circumvent that.
I'm sure we both want to see exciting football, and I agree with you that entertaining football is more important than winning.
But I'm diverting from the point, so I'll just stop here.
But most important: the fans are starting to demand entertainment again. This is a very good sign and if it can be turned into reality then surely italys way back into the higher echelons of european football together with the primera liga will be a lot shorter.
As to Juventus lacking personnel to entertain; how do you account for chievo being entertaining, they certainly don't have any personnel to rave about. Their players are very restricted to certain roles and are not even nearly as versatile as our starters. I don't believe that the best players are always connected to what level of entertainment a team has, If that is what you mean.
Comparing Inter Milan and Chievo player for player Inter exceed chievo by far, yet they play a numbing brand of footbal whilst Chievo are quite entertaining. Obviously the coach has something to do with this.
Lippi could play an exciting brand of football wihout a world class playmaker, there are ways to circumvent that.
I'm sure we both want to see exciting football, and I agree with you that entertaining football is more important than winning.
But I'm diverting from the point, so I'll just stop here.
I do not see how so called big stars has got anything to do with entertainment, when i said we do not have the personnel, i meant that creativity and pace is not what you associate with our side at the moment
Chievo have fast skilful players whether they are well know is irrelevant , they are skilful as Eriberto or whatever his real name is and Manfredini have far more pace and skill than Zambrotta and Nedved
At Inter, take away Dalmat and Recoba and the rest are more efficient than entertaining
At Juve, have you tried watching us when Dp is not playing, it does not make for exciting viewing i tell ya.
As for the fans, well i do not live in Italy, so i do not know what they want but they have from afar they have been wanting that for a long time as the fans have decided not to attend matches at Juve and Milan due partly due to the lack of entertainment.
I still feel when push comes to shove, the average Italian manager will take a win by any means necessary
Ancelotti has had 2 years at Reginna, 2 0r 3 years at Parma, 3 years at Juve and now 2nd year in Milan so he is not that young in management terms
There are other less pragmatic coaches like Cosmi, Mancini and Del Neri
Chievo have fast skilful players whether they are well know is irrelevant , they are skilful as Eriberto or whatever his real name is and Manfredini have far more pace and skill than Zambrotta and Nedved
At Inter, take away Dalmat and Recoba and the rest are more efficient than entertaining
At Juve, have you tried watching us when Dp is not playing, it does not make for exciting viewing i tell ya.
As for the fans, well i do not live in Italy, so i do not know what they want but they have from afar they have been wanting that for a long time as the fans have decided not to attend matches at Juve and Milan due partly due to the lack of entertainment.
I still feel when push comes to shove, the average Italian manager will take a win by any means necessary
Ancelotti has had 2 years at Reginna, 2 0r 3 years at Parma, 3 years at Juve and now 2nd year in Milan so he is not that young in management terms
There are other less pragmatic coaches like Cosmi, Mancini and Del Neri
I agree with Sivori how do you account for that?
I mean the Chevio play fast flowing football just like MAn U
but most of their plkayers aren't skilled but havé restricted roles....
if you ever seen Chievio live you notice this....
While for example DP or Davids are more free in their roles....
thus it is more their ability that will entertain then the Tactics as with Chevio
ofcourse they are entrertaining...
but there is a difference between tactics and ability
I prefer ability.,....
I mean the Chevio play fast flowing football just like MAn U
but most of their plkayers aren't skilled but havé restricted roles....
if you ever seen Chievio live you notice this....
While for example DP or Davids are more free in their roles....
thus it is more their ability that will entertain then the Tactics as with Chevio
ofcourse they are entrertaining...
but there is a difference between tactics and ability
I prefer ability.,....
I wasn't exactly sure what you mean, as i wrote in my post, and I do agree that creativity is not exactly our strongest aspect but I disagree as regards to your claims that we are very poor in this area. you seem to miss a playmaker, my point is that we can be entertaining without one.
Maybe they were a poor example, I don't know if you saw their game away against Hajduk in the Uefa cup. I did and their 1-0 win was utterly undeserved, their supposed skill and speed was invisible. Or at least not present at the time.
My point was that they can play a relatively entertaining football without a classic playmaker in the squad (they have, as I'm sure you know been compared to english sides on numerous occasions). They do have Eugenion Corini, but it should not be hard for Juventus to find someone of a comparative skill (allthough Juve playing like Chievo is not what I want, I used them as an example of playing without a playmaker).
Did I call them entertaining? You probably meant that I said that they had a lot of stars, yes? They do; just compare D'Anna to Canna or Bierhoff to Vieri and you'll quite easily see which side has the most star-players (and heaviest wage-bill too for that matter)
That was all I meant, that Inter are more boring than Chievo is, IMO, undisputable.
Not very often is it?
Seriously though, he is the only bonifed creator in the squad. I'll grant you that. But let's wait and see, this Camoranes guy could yet develop into something of a surprise. :hopefull:
Well, this is just my impression from talking to various people and certain expert commentators. But they may be off, as might I be, as might you be. On this one I think we'll just have to wait and see.
The average one, yes. But it is my impression that the bigger clubs now are getting different expectations on them, for the team to be winning and entertaining. These expectations have always been there, but the scale has been shifted somewhat to the later.As opposed to before, when winning was all that mattered. However these are just estimates and impression.
I know and agree, hence the undecide smiley, just think what that team would be like in the hands of Terim!!
However, If my memory serves me correctly Ancelotti was a late bloomer as a player and could possibly be that as a coach aswell.
Although the chances are slim, he could still develop into a good, attacking, coach, and I don't think you would disagree if I said that Milan has looked impressive so far.
Maybe they were a poor example, I don't know if you saw their game away against Hajduk in the Uefa cup. I did and their 1-0 win was utterly undeserved, their supposed skill and speed was invisible. Or at least not present at the time.
My point was that they can play a relatively entertaining football without a classic playmaker in the squad (they have, as I'm sure you know been compared to english sides on numerous occasions). They do have Eugenion Corini, but it should not be hard for Juventus to find someone of a comparative skill (allthough Juve playing like Chievo is not what I want, I used them as an example of playing without a playmaker).
Did I call them entertaining? You probably meant that I said that they had a lot of stars, yes? They do; just compare D'Anna to Canna or Bierhoff to Vieri and you'll quite easily see which side has the most star-players (and heaviest wage-bill too for that matter)
That was all I meant, that Inter are more boring than Chievo is, IMO, undisputable.
Not very often is it?
Seriously though, he is the only bonifed creator in the squad. I'll grant you that. But let's wait and see, this Camoranes guy could yet develop into something of a surprise. :hopefull:
Well, this is just my impression from talking to various people and certain expert commentators. But they may be off, as might I be, as might you be. On this one I think we'll just have to wait and see.
The average one, yes. But it is my impression that the bigger clubs now are getting different expectations on them, for the team to be winning and entertaining. These expectations have always been there, but the scale has been shifted somewhat to the later.As opposed to before, when winning was all that mattered. However these are just estimates and impression.
I know and agree, hence the undecide smiley, just think what that team would be like in the hands of Terim!!
However, If my memory serves me correctly Ancelotti was a late bloomer as a player and could possibly be that as a coach aswell.
Although the chances are slim, he could still develop into a good, attacking, coach, and I don't think you would disagree if I said that Milan has looked impressive so far.
You are not mixing up chievo with Fulham are you, cos chievo played 0-0 with red star while Fulham won 1-0 away to Hadjuk split
Well Juventus are playing with Nedved as a playmaker, and i do consider this one of the biggest flawas in the Italian game, playing the wrong player in the wrong position
But overall for SerieA to be more entertaining they need more foreign managers and like you said Milan with Terim would have been wonderful
Well Juventus are playing with Nedved as a playmaker, and i do consider this one of the biggest flawas in the Italian game, playing the wrong player in the wrong position
But overall for SerieA to be more entertaining they need more foreign managers and like you said Milan with Terim would have been wonderful
I agree, more foreigners would bring change to the game and force the established Ítalians to change their outdated formula.
And you are correct, I mixed up both the opposition and the results (I saw both games). But it doesn't change the fact that they played a very poor game and deserved to loose.
Regarding Nedved I agree that he is used in the wrong position, he is far to trigger-happy to be a playmaker.
As to this being a major flaw in the Italian game, I'm not sure.
Overall I don't think that we have too much of a disagreement here, really.
It's just that you seem to be more pessimistic about the future of Italian football than I and that you seem to really want a creative player/playmaker . I also want this but am not so adamant about the need for one as you seem to be. I believe that we can be entertaining with the squad we have now, whether we turn out to be entertaining is another story.
And you are correct, I mixed up both the opposition and the results (I saw both games). But it doesn't change the fact that they played a very poor game and deserved to loose.
Regarding Nedved I agree that he is used in the wrong position, he is far to trigger-happy to be a playmaker.
As to this being a major flaw in the Italian game, I'm not sure.
Overall I don't think that we have too much of a disagreement here, really.
It's just that you seem to be more pessimistic about the future of Italian football than I and that you seem to really want a creative player/playmaker . I also want this but am not so adamant about the need for one as you seem to be. I believe that we can be entertaining with the squad we have now, whether we turn out to be entertaining is another story.
